All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
-
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Irish defence is rather good
Or is our attack really bad?
Considering BB try was a fluke then yes.
Take away his flukey stuff and you take away his game.
Then again I don't remember him gifted an intercept before and not being able to run at least 20 metres with it.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Irish defence is rather good
Or is our attack really bad?
Considering BB try was a fluke then yes.
Take away his flukey stuff and you take away his game.
Then again I don't remember him gifted an intercept before and not being able to run at least 20 metres with it.Was he carrying an injury?
-
Ireland should have scored a lot more points given how they dominated us.
We need to learn how to exit properly, have an accurate kicking game, reduce errors. Pretty much a completely different gameplan to whatever you call the shit we put out tonight.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ireland should have scored a lot more points given how they dominated us.
We need to learn how to exit properly, have an accurate kicking game, reduce errors. Pretty much a completely different gameplan to whatever you call the shit we put out tonight.
Spot on!
-
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@antipodean It kind of went to shit when Wayne Smith and that AFL skill coach left.
As Squidge Rugby said in his video about the first test: the All Blacks game plan is basically centred around individual brilliance and having better skills than everyone else.
Doesn't always work
@NTA said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@antipodean It kind of went to shit when Wayne Smith and that AFL skill coach left.
As Squidge Rugby said in his video about the first test: the All Blacks game plan is basically centred around individual brilliance and having better skills than everyone else.
Doesn't always work
It was good watch.
-
@Bones not if its a rule, doesn't have to make sense.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones not if its a rule, doesn't have to make sense.
Who rules who plays where then? I'm really not following you.
-
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders Barnes is the ref for the 3rd test.
All set up for his redemption?
He's actually bloody good.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders Barnes is the ref for the 3rd test.
All set up for his redemption?
He's actually bloody good.
CAN be.
-
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Foster is fat.
Very succinct analysis
In fact an acronym.
-
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
Excellent post.
-
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MiketheSnow First event (green): Ofa's yellow card. Second event (orange): Angus' red card. Both TH props. Thought they needed uncontested scrums because they forgot Bower could have been moved to TH. Because they went for uncontested scrums, they needed to lose another player (they chose Ardie). So off were Ofa, Angus and Ardie = 12 players.
But Angus was Ofa’s replacement, so by position only the TH and the No8 were off = 13 players. From memory Leicester F was already back from Siberia by the time the uncontested scrum was called, so 13 players wasn’t it?
@JC said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MiketheSnow First event (green): Ofa's yellow card. Second event (orange): Angus' red card. Both TH props. Thought they needed uncontested scrums because they forgot Bower could have been moved to TH. Because they went for uncontested scrums, they needed to lose another player (they chose Ardie). So off were Ofa, Angus and Ardie = 12 players.
But Angus was Ofa’s replacement, so by position only the TH and the No8 were off = 13 players. From memory Leicester F was already back from Siberia by the time the uncontested scrum was called, so 13 players wasn’t it?
Since when did logic come into things?
-
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Irish defence is rather good
Or is our attack really bad?
Considering BB try was a fluke then yes.
Take away his flukey stuff and you take away his game.
Then again I don't remember him gifted an intercept before and not being able to run at least 20 metres with it.Was he carrying an injury?
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Irish defence is rather good
Or is our attack really bad?
Considering BB try was a fluke then yes.
Take away his flukey stuff and you take away his game.
Then again I don't remember him gifted an intercept before and not being able to run at least 20 metres with it.Was he carrying an injury?
I vaguely recall he had a calf issue some months ago then he said it was fine? Maybe it was that returning?
-
One thing that was somewhat innovative, was all those attacking penalties close to the line that we were tapping rather than setting a scrum for.
Not sure whether that was symptomatic that we knew our 7 man scrum was a busted flush, but I don't recall many NZ teams taking that route even when they've got a man in the bin. They'll still set a scrum with 7 men or stick a back on the side.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
One thing that was somewhat innovative, was all those attacking penalties close to the line that we were tapping rather than setting a scrum for.
Not sure whether that was symptomatic that we knew our 7 man scrum was a busted flush, but I don't recall many NZ teams taking that route even when they've got a man in the bin. They'll still set a scrum with 7 men or stick a back on the side.
Perhaps thinking was that scrums would burn too much time. Of course if the angle which showed that Sami has scored hadn't been mysteriously missing, it would have been moot.
-
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
When was the last time the AB's scored or got on the board first?
Best start was 19 November 2016.
-
Think Kinsella is right. ABs down to 13 (RC, YC). To avoid teams deliberately taking advantage of uncontested scrums, if you don’t have a viable TH, you have to have a front row (any player will do) and then someone else goes off. Permanently. So you go down to 12 then remain at 13 for the match once YC player comes back. Is all a bit stupid as 15 vs 13 is never a contest
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Think Kinsella is right. ABs down to 13 (RC, YC). To avoid teams deliberately taking advantage of uncontested scrums, if you don’t have a viable TH, you have to have a front row (any player will do) and then someone else goes off. Permanently. So you go down to 12 then remain at 13 for the match once YC player comes back. Is all a bit stupid as 15 vs 13 is never a contest
If correct that is absurd.
-
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Think Kinsella is right. ABs down to 13 (RC, YC). To avoid teams deliberately taking advantage of uncontested scrums, if you don’t have a viable TH, you have to have a front row (any player will do) and then someone else goes off. Permanently. So you go down to 12 then remain at 13 for the match once YC player comes back. Is all a bit stupid as 15 vs 13 is never a contest
If correct that is absurd.
-
One thing you can't fault is effort. A few guys killed themselves for the jersey last night.
Thought everything going wrong woke Retallick up as well.
@mariner4life he was really noticeable in the last ten minutes putting in loads of smashing hits. Two in quick succession on big men come to mind.
But its few and far between from him these days.
-
Some sober reflections, presaged by observation that TMO interventions and cards are a lottery which diminishes the product:
ABs seemed complacent to start with, but after red card actually outmuscled Irish for a period, urged on by the yapping Smith.
Thought Irish 'deserved' to be up 10 at HT, but TBF ABs really fought well to claw back 7.
In fact, the game was lost in the 10 minutes BBBR was off with HIA. During that period go forward suffered. PT's weak scrummaging at LH, allied to Scooter's shoulder too high on Ofa's rump meant our scrum stuttered, and two bad calls led to 10 points, which could otherwise easily have seem ABs camped in Irish half.
From then on we seemed to have the nudge, but failure of TMO to see Sami T grounding (it was try on balance of probabilities but certainly not compelling evidence without the behind goal line angle) mean invaluable time burned and conversion wasn't a gimme. Small margins.
In other words, a game the Blacks weren't that far away from winning.
However, such losses uncover weaknesses, and here ABs reminiscent of Blues in SF final.
In the modern game there are always going to be soft penalties, and they tend to favour the attacking side. Also cards very positional: if Ofa tackled Ringrose (my MOTM for drawing two cards) 10 yards from our line would that have been more than penalty?
What Ireland identified, as did Razor, is that if you're playing mainly within oppo half the reffing lottery will fall your way.
ABs and Blues made common mistake of trying to play too much rugby in own half. Irish kicking was designed to repel us back to halfway whenever we got near 22. They actually structured their patterns around that to create correct angles for kicks to be effective.
Added to fact that their chasers were excellent and ours mediocre.
The annoying thing is that Jordie seems perfect to deal with this, so long as team adopts correct tactical approach. -
@Steve said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The team is in fucking rag order. The culture looks shite too. From all the social media its all basketball jerseys, slang and shite haircuts. They all need a boot up the fucking hole.
Welcome aboard. Some great points.
If that's true and is causing issues, then who is responsible for allowing that culture to take root and how do we fix it?
I think there is a whiff of "substitute teacher syndrome" off the team.
I'd say a fair few of the players (if not all) know Razor should have got the job.
The Crusaders lads are receiving better coaching at club than country and a few of them can't make the national team over lads they regularly beast in Super Rugby.Similarly I think a fair few reckon Cane shouldn't be captain or starting 7.
*dropping him in 2019 was a massive mistake though. He does add starch to the defence.Then we have a revolving door of lads "having a go" at the positional buffet.
"Jordie have a go on the wing there son".
"No lets play with dual pivots, Beaudy jump in at FB there you little scamp"
"Hey Rieko , Fancy a go in the centres?"
"lets play ALB and Goodhue the wrong way around".Less said about the back row the better.
Everything about the team feels so temporary and there are no stalwarts or incumbents beyond the same oul lads who got manhandled in Tokyo.
Thats why someone like Laumape was a silly one to let go. Sometimes you need to be able to just drop it off hospital style to a jagged elbowed ball of energy to make you a guaranteed 4/5 yards and reset.
We have fifteen 7's players at the moment all sea gulling in the wide channels.
The Maori played with more testicular fortitude.
-
Some sober reflections, presaged by observation that TMO interventions and cards are a lottery which diminishes the product:
ABs seemed complacent to start with, but after red card actually outmuscled Irish for a period, urged on by the yapping Smith.
Thought Irish 'deserved' to be up 10 at HT, but TBF ABs really fought well to claw back 7.
In fact, the game was lost in the 10 minutes BBBR was off with HIA. During that period go forward suffered. PT's weak scrummaging at LH, allied to Scooter's shoulder too high on Ofa's rump meant our scrum stuttered, and two bad calls led to 10 points, which could otherwise easily have seem ABs camped in Irish half.
From then on we seemed to have the nudge, but failure of TMO to see Sami T grounding (it was try on balance of probabilities but certainly not compelling evidence without the behind goal line angle) mean invaluable time burned and conversion wasn't a gimme. Small margins.
In other words, a game the Blacks weren't that far away from winning.
However, such losses uncover weaknesses, and here ABs reminiscent of Blues in SF final.
In the modern game there are always going to be soft penalties, and they tend to favour the attacking side. Also cards very positional: if Ofa tackled Ringrose (my MOTM for drawing two cards) 10 yards from our line would that have been more than penalty?
What Ireland identified, as did Razor, is that if you're playing mainly within oppo half the reffing lottery will fall your way.
ABs and Blues made common mistake of trying to play too much rugby in own half. Irish kicking was designed to repel us back to halfway whenever we got near 22. They actually structured their patterns around that to create correct angles for kicks to be effective.
Added to fact that their chasers were excellent and ours mediocre.
The annoying thing is that Jordie seems perfect to deal with this, so long as team adopts correct tactical approach. -
@Steve said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Hi Folks,
Im new to these pastures.
Here is my two cents for what its worth.
Peyper got all 3 big calls wrong for me.
-
Ofa should have been a yellow and penalty try.
-
Leicesters was fine for me. Rugby incident. Tiddlywinks etc. To suggest there was intent is disingenuous
-
The head clash red is an absolutely farcical call. People paying 150 odd dollars to watch a game see it reduced to that nonsense and then Ardie Savea is collateral damage in the ensuing mess. They are ruining the sport with this garbage. SBW on Anthony Watson is a red.....this isn't.
LF looks a bit slow. I think Clarke can do everything LF can do but has more gas. Rieko isn't a centres arsehole but has improved to be fair. 3 years on from RWC 2019 we still don't know the starting front row, back row, or centres. You could make a case for only Whitelock, Jordan and Aaron Smith being nailed on. Although in Jordans case he should be the fullback.
The team is in fucking rag order. The culture looks shite too. From all the social media its all basketball jerseys, slang and shite haircuts. They all need a boot up the fucking hole.
Grace and Blackadder will become mainstays in the not too distant future. Vaii needs a chance to start instead of one of the veterans.
Id have had Romano as the stop gap over Tuipolutu today . PT is a joke of a player....powder puff.
ST should be starting hooker. Makes Mealamu esque hard yards with footwork before contact.
Mo'unga got absolutely rag dolled out there a few times today. He looked like a boy against men.
Laumape would be useful to have around the last few years.
My silk purse out of a sows ear backline......
- Smith
- Barrett
- Clarke
- Jordie
- Rieko
- Reece
- Jordan
The Irish are a very functional team but pretty blunt. More perspiration than inspiration. They know their jobs and do them well to be fair.
Not sure about their attacking lines though...lazy runners and shepherding/obstruction all over the place. Sexton is passing the ball to players behind a wall of green shirts.
As an aside they (the Irish) are turning into a pretty classless bunch. Sexton wants a conference with the ref on every call. Even going back to the previous encounters such as the Autumn game where Coles was heard saying "jeez he's a mouthy fluffybunny" about Sexton on the ref mic.
O'Mahony hit a player late after Aki's try last week. Today he started a schmozzle and was the one doing all the mouthing. Sexton gave Cane a spray last week after Ringrose gave him a rib tickler and today after Porters try Sexton was down shouting haaaaaaaaaa in Aaron Smiths face. There is also a lot of South Africa-esque rest taking place between play. Feigning injury etc. O'Mahony main culprit. Todays game took over 2 hours.I agree with all of this. Someone needs to find Reiko Ioanes barber, knock him out, revive him and knock him out again for good measure. Just an awful do.
Things have improved though, Patrick Tuipulotu didn’t come on the field with pink hair at least.
@MN5 I think it was in Cory Janes book, where he said himself Carter and McCaw had come down for the hotel breakfast in singlets and Mealamu sent them back up their room to put on t-shirts as their attire was inappropriate.
Pedantic yes. Outdated probably, but it speaks to a culture where there was respect and a hierarchy.
At the moment there is a load of sunshine boys of the "churr bro" ilk.
-
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones not if its a rule, doesn't have to make sense.
Who rules who plays where then? I'm really not following you.
-
@MN5 I think it was in Cory Janes book, where he said himself Carter and McCaw had come down for the hotel breakfast in singlets and Mealamu sent them back up their room to put on t-shirts as their attire was inappropriate.
Pedantic yes. Outdated probably, but it speaks to a culture where there was respect and a hierarchy.
At the moment there is a load of sunshine boys of the "churr bro" ilk.
@Steve said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@MN5 I think it was in Cory Janes book, where he said himself Carter and McCaw had come down for the hotel breakfast in singlets and Mealamu sent them back up their room to put on t-shirts as their attire was inappropriate.
Pedantic yes. Outdated probably, but it speaks to a culture where there was respect and a hierarchy.
At the moment there is a load of sunshine boys of the "churr bro" ilk.
You might enjoy this read:
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/the-cultural-shift-thats-helped-transform-the-all-blacks/
