All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
He didn’t have the option. Once the substitutions were made in the order they were, the sideline officials said who had to stay off. Trouble is they got it wrong, and it was DP who had to stay off as he was subbed for AT.
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needing to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
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@number9 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Has Foster said anything about why he replaced an in form Ardie? And not replaced Dalton? In my opinion this was another one of his brain explosions. Has he been questioned? He may have been but I missed it.
He didn’t have the option. Once the substitutions were made in the order they were, the sideline officials said who had to stay off. Trouble is they got it wrong, and it was DP who had to stay off as he was subbed for AT.
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needing to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
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@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
@Crazy-Horse if thats the case, then thats ridiculous, as long as they have the 2 reserves on the bench, if they can cover both sides even better as it reduces the possibility of GO scrums further.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crazy-Horse i think the argument is he may have seen his support was being tackled and not passed, in which case you cant "punish" ireland for playing to the whistle, you have to boil it down to first principles,
tackled without the ball ? yes.....if that tackler wasn't there is there a clear overlap and no cover? yes
But how does the ref determine that player who didn’t pass would have?
Some of this stuff is just ridiculous.
I can imagine some coach in NH dreaming up plays just to try and buy a card.
I ALWAYS start from position if wanting to see 15 on 15. But recognise deliberate cheating can thwart teams. So accept the OCCASIONAL card is justified.
My gut tells me that the TMO role has gotten far too powerful. Maybe let the three on field make the calls and only bring TMO into things on request, and in post match review for foul play!
@pakman im principle i agree, subjectivity should be removed as much as possible in my mind
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@Crazy-Horse if thats the case, then thats ridiculous, as long as they have the 2 reserves on the bench, if they can cover both sides even better as it reduces the possibility of GO scrums further.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crazy-Horse if thats the case, then thats ridiculous, as long as they have the 2 reserves on the bench, if they can cover both sides even better as it reduces the possibility of GO scrums further.
Agree. Hopefully they can't be that foolish can they?
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@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
I think you’re right. There was some controversy in Europe when props said they couldn’t play opposite side, and ‘tactical’ oldie scrums required. So must have one of each FR to cover that.
But not sure there’s anything to stop a team volunteering a player who can play both sides.
I seem to recall Ofa being nominated as LH but subbing for TH or vice versa.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
It takes some chutzpah to complain that you were dudded in the refereeing when you compare Dalton's perfectly legitimate penalty and Lowe's coat hanger.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
It takes some chutzpah to complain that you were dudded in the refereeing when you compare Dalton's perfectly legitimate penalty and Lowe's coat hanger.
This article is the first of many this week that will seek to put pressure on the officials to keep an eye on the ABs and their countless indiscretions.
I read somewhere that Foster said that World Rugby thought the ABs should have had 4 yellow cards in test 1. Aside from Barrett's moment of madness, I'm intrigued to know what the other 3 were. It is very much one way though. Have Ireland committed any offences that went unpunished? E.g. Lowe's coathanger. Or are NZ just a cynical team getting their comeuppance.
In the build up to 3rd test, there needs to be focus on Ireland's shepherding (legal/illegal?), offside line, decoy runners/obstruction and work at the breakdown. Because if the focus is on AB indiscretions only next week...
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
That Barnes sure knows his Rugby. There’s nothing more inspirational than an ex English player getting on another countries bandwagon ( another country they usually hate at the best of times ) when they beat the All Blacks.
I’m shocked there wasn’t more digs at Sam Cane. He must have been working to a deadline.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
I think you’re right. There was some controversy in Europe when props said they couldn’t play opposite side, and ‘tactical’ oldie scrums required. So must have one of each FR to cover that.
But not sure there’s anything to stop a team volunteering a player who can play both sides.
I seem to recall Ofa being nominated as LH but subbing for TH or vice versa.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
I think you’re right. There was some controversy in Europe when props said they couldn’t play opposite side, and ‘tactical’ oldie scrums required. So must have one of each FR to cover that.
But not sure there’s anything to stop a team volunteering a player who can play both sides.
I seem to recall Ofa being nominated as LH but subbing for TH or vice versa.
This is what I found on the World Rugby website. I am still a little confused.
Prior to the match, each team must advise the appropriate match official of their front-row players and possible front-row replacements and which position(s) in the front row they can play. Only these players may play in the front row when the scrum is contested and only in their designated position(s).
A replacement front-row player may start the match in another position. -
When trying to rationalise the performance of the ABs over the weekend and since the new regime took over, simply put, wrong Head Coaching team and wrong Captain, the rest is a flow on effect from there.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
We’ll that was a strange game, hard to get any flow with the cards and with the Irish playing so well.
I’m going to buck the trend here and say it’s far too early to panic. This AB team thrashed this same Irish team a week ago. You don’t go from being an excellent team to a poor one in one week.
I think the scoreline last week flattered us.
Hugely. We got rolled when Ireland got ball
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
We’ll that was a strange game, hard to get any flow with the cards and with the Irish playing so well.
I’m going to buck the trend here and say it’s far too early to panic. This AB team thrashed this same Irish team a week ago. You don’t go from being an excellent team to a poor one in one week.
I think the scoreline last week flattered us.
Hugely. We got rolled when Ireland got ball
The fact we were down to 13-14 men for the majority of the game and the Irish only beat us by 11PTS is a lot more positive than getting blown out last week.
I think the AB’s have much more upside playing at home and with the talent we have at hand. Unless there are more reds/yellows against us I reckon AB’s will win by 10.
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This is awesome , ABs front row totally exposed ..Foster out coached not for the first time
https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=mgnCkr5Kn77pHPIoS1Ceew
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This is awesome , ABs front row totally exposed ..Foster out coached not for the first time
https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=mgnCkr5Kn77pHPIoS1Ceew
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
This is awesome , ABs front row totally exposed ..Foster out coached not for the first time
https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=mgnCkr5Kn77pHPIoS1Ceew
That is brutal to watch. It used to be NZ forwards with the soft hands and running lines to carve out metres in traffic and get on the front foot.
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@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
This is awesome , ABs front row totally exposed ..Foster out coached not for the first time
https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=mgnCkr5Kn77pHPIoS1Ceew
That is brutal to watch. It used to be NZ forwards with the soft hands and running lines to carve out metres in traffic and get on the front foot.
@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching
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@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@stodders what was worse , it kept happening time ,after time after time , makes you wonder what the brains trust were watching
That poster also has a video about NZ's attack structure, or lack of it. Lends itself to the theory that NZ have poor attacking patterns and are relying on individualism to break open organised defences. V poor coaching.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
I think you’re right. There was some controversy in Europe when props said they couldn’t play opposite side, and ‘tactical’ oldie scrums required. So must have one of each FR to cover that.
But not sure there’s anything to stop a team volunteering a player who can play both sides.
I seem to recall Ofa being nominated as LH but subbing for TH or vice versa.
This is what I found on the World Rugby website. I am still a little confused.
Prior to the match, each team must advise the appropriate match official of their front-row players and possible front-row replacements and which position(s) in the front row they can play. Only these players may play in the front row when the scrum is contested and only in their designated position(s).
A replacement front-row player may start the match in another position.@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The worst part of this was we should have been down to 12 for needed to go to uncontested scrums. Clearly we need to name props to cover both sides to avoid this.
I thought I read somewhere that teams had to nominate LH and TH injury replacements specifically - ie they can't nominate a player to cover both sides. Or am talking out of my arse again?
I think you’re right. There was some controversy in Europe when props said they couldn’t play opposite side, and ‘tactical’ oldie scrums required. So must have one of each FR to cover that.
But not sure there’s anything to stop a team volunteering a player who can play both sides.
I seem to recall Ofa being nominated as LH but subbing for TH or vice versa.
This is what I found on the World Rugby website. I am still a little confused.
Prior to the match, each team must advise the appropriate match official of their front-row players and possible front-row replacements and which position(s) in the front row they can play. Only these players may play in the front row when the scrum is contested and only in their designated position(s).
A replacement front-row player may start the match in another position.Sounds like we could have said that Bower could play LH and TH. in which case Ross on would have let normal scrums to continue.
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This is awesome , ABs front row totally exposed ..Foster out coached not for the first time
https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=mgnCkr5Kn77pHPIoS1Ceew
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
This is awesome , ABs front row totally exposed ..Foster out coached not for the first time
https://twitter.com/brettruganalyst/status/1546240815143460865?s=21&t=mgnCkr5Kn77pHPIoS1Ceew
That's straight out Mcleod's job. Club level stuff.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Chris-B you have to wonder if Fozzie is genuinely concerned with things, or if he is happy with how we are tracking, then add in NZR.
If we lose this weekend, the blow torch surely goes on full, and the other thing, if we lose again, playing poor rugby, will stadiums keep selling out, that will hit NZR, and also does brand damage when we play Aus and cant even sell a stadium out.
Is Wellington sold out yet?
I'm sure he's concerned, but he probably doesn't have the full set of tools to fix it. Someone pointed out that he's had a unique set of circumstances to deal with - with covid, etc (to which I'd add the advent of the crazy card game) - and that is true, but, I still think I've seen enough. The mediocrity in results correlates pretty strongly with what some of the Chiefs' supporters were warning about when he was appointed.
This coming weekend will be pretty interesting. Then we've got the retaining the Bledisloe hurdle, then the Jaapies at home hurdle and then EOYT.
Pretty sure the axe won't fall until after TRC and probably after the EOYT.
I'd actually bet against it falling at all, but really execution should only be stayed if NZR genuinely believe Fozzie is the best man for the job (or it's going to cost millions and millions to axe him).
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'd actually bet against it falling at all, but really execution should only be stayed if NZR genuinely believe Fozzie is the best man for the job (or it's going to cost millions and millions to axe him).
Then they are crap at writing contracts.
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@mariner4life We fucked ourselves with a stupid selection process that meant all the potential assistants had to take sides before the Head Coach was appointed.
@Frank - plenty of chance, but I think it would be a dumb move.
Joe quit coaching because he was burned out and he will have used all his best ideas already with Ireland. Meanwhile we've got a younger guy jumping out of his skin for the job, who has made it pretty clear he's been preparing for the job for about the last five years.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life We fucked ourselves with a stupid selection process that meant all the potential assistants had to take sides before the Head Coach was appointed.
@Frank - plenty of chance, but I think it would be a dumb move.
Joe quit coaching because he was burned out and he will have used all his best ideas already with Ireland. Meanwhile we've got a younger guy jumping out of his skin for the job, who has made it pretty clear he's been preparing for the job for about the last five years.
I thought Joe had a family member that needed looking after?
