All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating.@Darren said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
What bothers me the most about the loss is the way we played. Reminds me of a league game, pass the ball to a runner who hits it up, repeat till we knock it on or get tired of that, then a kick that we never get possession back from.
There is no deception, no players in motion, no one creating an overlap or offloads to a guy on the shoulder, just boofball and no one is falling for it.
I just want to see some new tactics, some innovation, something to break down defenses instead of hit ups and kicks.
And our defensive systems are really bad and easily exploited. We do show courage on the tryline, but just allow tons of easy meters.
It is all beyond frustrating.that doesn't give enough credit to league, they often at least have a few players in motion and know how to tackle
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
@KiwiMurph interesting how he comments about some of our players turning thier back on the attack...thats something you teach kids from a young age never to do.
Seems some of the basics skills are missing, or guys who are good defenders in thier super teams, turn into average ones at this level...maybe the defensive system is the issue?
Our poor defence is a huge part of our issue, we arent making enough tackles and putting pressure on opposition to make errors, providing counter attack opportunities for us...although now we would probably just kick it back to them anyway.
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@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
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@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
@No-Quarter LF was all lost at sea, he needed to get tangled up with the outside one to highlight it, but it is something they do very well right now with those screens and lazy runners.
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@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
i have to disagree, think they just executed perfectly, LF goes straight between those two guy, no obstruction, he's just too late and the ball is gone
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i reckon they tend to get it right, and BA will catch the ball outside the last shoulder
This has been a thing for ages, the Crusaders were huge at it.
@mariner4life I was living in the UK in 2002 when the ABs toured and Woodward made a huge deal of our dummy runners, anything rugby at the time, was about our illegal dummy runners.
But I agree, Ireland are doing it well, sometimes illegal, but more often, right on the wire.
Again, it is simple stuff like this, we are not doing, and you need only look at our defence line which is staggered to see why they are picking it apart.
@Kiwiwomble it is LF, not Ardie, as above, he needed to tangle himself with the outside man instead of going right between them, more so when you watch the impact that man makes further down field (he is the one that clatters into Jordie and gets them right over the advantage line)
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@mariner4life I was living in the UK in 2002 when the ABs toured and Woodward made a huge deal of our dummy runners, anything rugby at the time, was about our illegal dummy runners.
But I agree, Ireland are doing it well, sometimes illegal, but more often, right on the wire.
Again, it is simple stuff like this, we are not doing, and you need only look at our defence line which is staggered to see why they are picking it apart.
@Kiwiwomble it is LF, not Ardie, as above, he needed to tangle himself with the outside man instead of going right between them, more so when you watch the impact that man makes further down field (he is the one that clatters into Jordie and gets them right over the advantage line)
@taniwharugby cheers, corrected
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@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
It looks like smart manipulation of our defensive screen to me.
We seems to get lost on defence all the time against the NH teams. This is not really new for Ireland so we have not worked out that they did this in the previous 2 losses recently.
The Crusaders have used this a lot in their attacking patterns using decoy runners at the defence and Mounga,Havilli and Jordan have been the reciever,yet the Blues defended it in the SR final pretty well as other teams did,but in the AB environment we don't know how to ?says a lot. -
Yeah fair point guys, that freeze frame makes it look worse, playing it through a few times Aki steps out and takes the ball on the outside shoulder, so right on the line but legal. If LF had run into the second player instead of just sort of walking in between the two he would have milked the penalty.
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And all that said, what the hell is the defensive structure? They have a 4 on 2 overlap without doing a lot in the leadup. Just terrible defense.
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And all that said, what the hell is the defensive structure? They have a 4 on 2 overlap without doing a lot in the leadup. Just terrible defense.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
And all that said, what the hell is the defensive structure? They have a 4 on 2 overlap without doing a lot in the leadup. Just terrible defense.
quick ruck ball
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Yeah fair point guys, that freeze frame makes it look worse, playing it through a few times Aki steps out and takes the ball on the outside shoulder, so right on the line but legal. If LF had run into the second player instead of just sort of walking in between the two he would have milked the penalty.
@No-Quarter even if he didnt milk the penalty, he possibly removes a crucial player from the movement of thier ball inside our 22 when you follow that players path.
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
I watch that and see them isolate Leicester with two players either side so that he can't defend the player behind the line of front runners. That's not good rugby, that's sheparding. Everything wrong with the game on a video highlighting how good they are!
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I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
What I see is a lot of cleaning out from the side.
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I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
It doesn't feel right. If Aki takes the ball outside of the second defenders shoulder then technically I guess they aren't in front of him, but they are interfering with the tackler. Running a couple of dummy runners flat and then passing the ball behind them to a player wider out is pretty standard, but that is really pushing the limits with Aki only just outside of them.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
It doesn't feel right. If Aki takes the ball outside of the second defenders shoulder then technically I guess they aren't in front of him, but they are interfering with the tackler. Running a couple of dummy runners flat and then passing the ball behind them to a player wider out is pretty standard, but that is really pushing the limits with Aki only just outside of them.
@No-Quarter i get the argument but i dont think this is a great example, LF is meters away from BA, take out those two guys and he still isn't making that tackle, if that actually physically block him or BA is right on their shoulder then sure....shepard
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@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
