All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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i reckon they tend to get it right, and BA will catch the ball outside the last shoulder
This has been a thing for ages, the Crusaders were huge at it.
@mariner4life I was living in the UK in 2002 when the ABs toured and Woodward made a huge deal of our dummy runners, anything rugby at the time, was about our illegal dummy runners.
But I agree, Ireland are doing it well, sometimes illegal, but more often, right on the wire.
Again, it is simple stuff like this, we are not doing, and you need only look at our defence line which is staggered to see why they are picking it apart.
@Kiwiwomble it is LF, not Ardie, as above, he needed to tangle himself with the outside man instead of going right between them, more so when you watch the impact that man makes further down field (he is the one that clatters into Jordie and gets them right over the advantage line)
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@mariner4life I was living in the UK in 2002 when the ABs toured and Woodward made a huge deal of our dummy runners, anything rugby at the time, was about our illegal dummy runners.
But I agree, Ireland are doing it well, sometimes illegal, but more often, right on the wire.
Again, it is simple stuff like this, we are not doing, and you need only look at our defence line which is staggered to see why they are picking it apart.
@Kiwiwomble it is LF, not Ardie, as above, he needed to tangle himself with the outside man instead of going right between them, more so when you watch the impact that man makes further down field (he is the one that clatters into Jordie and gets them right over the advantage line)
@taniwharugby cheers, corrected
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@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@KiwiMurph Those two Irish players running in front of the player that receives the pass at around the 45 second mark are illegal really, they are running a screen directly in front of the player that gets the ball - looks more like NFL than rugby. Fair play to the Irish for getting away with it but the ref should have called that back.
Edit - this part here, Aki is directly behind 2 players running a screen
It looks like smart manipulation of our defensive screen to me.
We seems to get lost on defence all the time against the NH teams. This is not really new for Ireland so we have not worked out that they did this in the previous 2 losses recently.
The Crusaders have used this a lot in their attacking patterns using decoy runners at the defence and Mounga,Havilli and Jordan have been the reciever,yet the Blues defended it in the SR final pretty well as other teams did,but in the AB environment we don't know how to ?says a lot. -
Yeah fair point guys, that freeze frame makes it look worse, playing it through a few times Aki steps out and takes the ball on the outside shoulder, so right on the line but legal. If LF had run into the second player instead of just sort of walking in between the two he would have milked the penalty.
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And all that said, what the hell is the defensive structure? They have a 4 on 2 overlap without doing a lot in the leadup. Just terrible defense.
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And all that said, what the hell is the defensive structure? They have a 4 on 2 overlap without doing a lot in the leadup. Just terrible defense.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
And all that said, what the hell is the defensive structure? They have a 4 on 2 overlap without doing a lot in the leadup. Just terrible defense.
quick ruck ball
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Yeah fair point guys, that freeze frame makes it look worse, playing it through a few times Aki steps out and takes the ball on the outside shoulder, so right on the line but legal. If LF had run into the second player instead of just sort of walking in between the two he would have milked the penalty.
@No-Quarter even if he didnt milk the penalty, he possibly removes a crucial player from the movement of thier ball inside our 22 when you follow that players path.
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
I watch that and see them isolate Leicester with two players either side so that he can't defend the player behind the line of front runners. That's not good rugby, that's sheparding. Everything wrong with the game on a video highlighting how good they are!
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I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
What I see is a lot of cleaning out from the side.
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I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
It doesn't feel right. If Aki takes the ball outside of the second defenders shoulder then technically I guess they aren't in front of him, but they are interfering with the tackler. Running a couple of dummy runners flat and then passing the ball behind them to a player wider out is pretty standard, but that is really pushing the limits with Aki only just outside of them.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
It doesn't feel right. If Aki takes the ball outside of the second defenders shoulder then technically I guess they aren't in front of him, but they are interfering with the tackler. Running a couple of dummy runners flat and then passing the ball behind them to a player wider out is pretty standard, but that is really pushing the limits with Aki only just outside of them.
@No-Quarter i get the argument but i dont think this is a great example, LF is meters away from BA, take out those two guys and he still isn't making that tackle, if that actually physically block him or BA is right on their shoulder then sure....shepard
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@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
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@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
then their option of hitting those flat guys if you shift out pays huge dividends.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
then their option of hitting those flat guys if you shift out pays huge dividends.
@mariner4life also they had 3 players in a 2m circle of LF, and still had better numbers than us...LF should have been on the outside guy of the 2 screener, pull a Hollywood
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@taniwharugby yeah, LF definitely makes the wrong decision, if he had tried to take Aki he would have run into the second Irish dummy runner and it would have been a pretty clear penalty. He made a mess of that, though in fairness he had three players in front of him, any one of which could have taken the ball.
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@taniwharugby yeah, LF definitely makes the wrong decision, if he had tried to take Aki he would have run into the second Irish dummy runner and it would have been a pretty clear penalty. He made a mess of that, though in fairness he had three players in front of him, any one of which could have taken the ball.
@No-Quarter ha I just mentioned LF had 3 attackers in his vision above...simple but effective from Ireland.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
i really feel we're dangerously close to just being whingers...if that bad man hadn't tackled me i would have run all the way and scored....he's allowed to tackle you....well he shouldn't be!
if other teams are doing things withing the rules and we're not...thats on us
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I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
@gt12 No, it’s just smart play. We don’t want to become like the wallabies supporters always desperate to find every grey area of the law being infringed upon.
