All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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Yeah fair point guys, that freeze frame makes it look worse, playing it through a few times Aki steps out and takes the ball on the outside shoulder, so right on the line but legal. If LF had run into the second player instead of just sort of walking in between the two he would have milked the penalty.
@No-Quarter even if he didnt milk the penalty, he possibly removes a crucial player from the movement of thier ball inside our 22 when you follow that players path.
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
I watch that and see them isolate Leicester with two players either side so that he can't defend the player behind the line of front runners. That's not good rugby, that's sheparding. Everything wrong with the game on a video highlighting how good they are!
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I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
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Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Another example of AB defence being exposed, I believe it was 14 vs 14 at this stage.
Again the front row being targeted.
What I see is a lot of cleaning out from the side.
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I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
It doesn't feel right. If Aki takes the ball outside of the second defenders shoulder then technically I guess they aren't in front of him, but they are interfering with the tackler. Running a couple of dummy runners flat and then passing the ball behind them to a player wider out is pretty standard, but that is really pushing the limits with Aki only just outside of them.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
It doesn't feel right. If Aki takes the ball outside of the second defenders shoulder then technically I guess they aren't in front of him, but they are interfering with the tackler. Running a couple of dummy runners flat and then passing the ball behind them to a player wider out is pretty standard, but that is really pushing the limits with Aki only just outside of them.
@No-Quarter i get the argument but i dont think this is a great example, LF is meters away from BA, take out those two guys and he still isn't making that tackle, if that actually physically block him or BA is right on their shoulder then sure....shepard
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@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
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@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
then their option of hitting those flat guys if you shift out pays huge dividends.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
then their option of hitting those flat guys if you shift out pays huge dividends.
@mariner4life also they had 3 players in a 2m circle of LF, and still had better numbers than us...LF should have been on the outside guy of the 2 screener, pull a Hollywood
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@taniwharugby yeah, LF definitely makes the wrong decision, if he had tried to take Aki he would have run into the second Irish dummy runner and it would have been a pretty clear penalty. He made a mess of that, though in fairness he had three players in front of him, any one of which could have taken the ball.
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@taniwharugby yeah, LF definitely makes the wrong decision, if he had tried to take Aki he would have run into the second Irish dummy runner and it would have been a pretty clear penalty. He made a mess of that, though in fairness he had three players in front of him, any one of which could have taken the ball.
@No-Quarter ha I just mentioned LF had 3 attackers in his vision above...simple but effective from Ireland.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
i really feel we're dangerously close to just being whingers...if that bad man hadn't tackled me i would have run all the way and scored....he's allowed to tackle you....well he shouldn't be!
if other teams are doing things withing the rules and we're not...thats on us
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I'm really fucking angry watching that. Is that a rugby first principle? Put a bunch of players in front of the ball so that defenders can't actually make tackles? That's all I see and that's why I'm totally turned off rugby now.
@gt12 No, it’s just smart play. We don’t want to become like the wallabies supporters always desperate to find every grey area of the law being infringed upon.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
then their option of hitting those flat guys if you shift out pays huge dividends.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
then their option of hitting those flat guys if you shift out pays huge dividends.
I look at .044 and I can't see how Leicester gets to make a good decision. He has two players in his line of vision and Aki directly behind them about to get the ball. They are just blocking him (especially the outside player as it means he can't drift)..
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter but that's part of what they did, create confusion and doubt with LF.
They do alot of this, most is right on the line, that one i think is fine...that said, LF was caught going in when there were numbers on his outside, he was sucked into thier trap, he needed to make an effort the get to Aki, which he didn't, just accepted it, slowly turned and chased.
then their option of hitting those flat guys if you shift out pays huge dividends.
I look at .044 and I can't see how Leicester gets to make a good decision. He has two players in his line of vision and Aki directly behind them about to get the ball. They are just blocking him (especially the outside player as it means he can't drift)..
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
i really feel we're dangerously close to just being whingers...if that bad man hadn't tackled me i would have run all the way and scored....he's allowed to tackle you....well he shouldn't be!
if other teams are doing things withing the rules and we're not...thats on us
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
i really feel we're dangerously close to just being whingers...if that bad man hadn't tackled me i would have run all the way and scored....he's allowed to tackle you....well he shouldn't be!
if other teams are doing things withing the rules and we're not...thats on us
As mentioned in the state of the game thread, the way screening forward runners are being used is creating danger. I'm not complaining about Ireland they are playing within law interpretations, However it IS causing defenders to be unsighted and make poor decisions.
Whether a dummy runner has an impact shouldn't just be a physical impact thing, it should also take into account taking up space and blocking visibility.
Rugby will always have players in front of the ball but until Rod McQueen started Brumbie-ball it was rare to see numbers of players run as 'blockers' ahead of the ball.
Perhaps some law interpretation changes in that area would make a cleaner game? -
@gt12 see i dont think theyre stopping him making the right decision....theyre just presenting several options and that confuses LF...which is on him
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 see i dont think theyre stopping him making the right decision....theyre just presenting several options and that confuses LF...which is on him
I think the second runner is directly blocking his ability to be able to make a tackle. That's not a decision, that's an impact.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
i really feel we're dangerously close to just being whingers...if that bad man hadn't tackled me i would have run all the way and scored....he's allowed to tackle you....well he shouldn't be!
if other teams are doing things withing the rules and we're not...thats on us
As mentioned in the state of the game thread, the way screening forward runners are being used is creating danger. I'm not complaining about Ireland they are playing within law interpretations, However it IS causing defenders to be unsighted and make poor decisions.
Whether a dummy runner has an impact shouldn't just be a physical impact thing, it should also take into account taking up space and blocking visibility.
Rugby will always have players in front of the ball but until Rod McQueen started Brumbie-ball it was rare to see numbers of players run as 'blockers' ahead of the ball.
Perhaps some law interpretation changes in that area would make a cleaner game?@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble I don't agree at all, if those two players aren't there, LF has a clear sight of Aki and at least attempts the tackle.
i really feel we're dangerously close to just being whingers...if that bad man hadn't tackled me i would have run all the way and scored....he's allowed to tackle you....well he shouldn't be!
if other teams are doing things withing the rules and we're not...thats on us
Whether a dummy runner has an impact shouldn't just be a physical impact thing, it should also take into account taking up space and blocking visibility.
really?...so no plays allowed behind the scrum? how about the halfback behind a lineout when they pass it back to the wing to connect with the hooker? those are all about not exactly seeing whats going on
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 see i dont think theyre stopping him making the right decision....theyre just presenting several options and that confuses LF...which is on him
I think the second runner is directly blocking his ability to be able to make a tackle. That's not a decision, that's an impact.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 see i dont think theyre stopping him making the right decision....theyre just presenting several options and that confuses LF...which is on him
I think the second runner is directly blocking his ability to be able to make a tackle. That's not a decision, that's an impact.
I'll add to this by saying that we should hire the very best league attack coach there is and give them free rein to use blocking runners until we get pulled up for it. The only way to get this changed is for us to take it to the nth degree. That's on our coaching team and is a big clap to the NH coaches(who are pushing it as far as they can and good on them).
