All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants the lack of self awareness when people say things like this is always funny
Yeah it would be more correct after two awful performances last year, after the win in the first Irish test to say ‘We haven’t become a great team overnight!’ Yup that’s why we are ranked 4th
@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now
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@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now
People rubbish the WR rankings, and I think that RWC shouldn’t be weighted as it is, but the decline under Foster is easy to see on that line
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants i think they said similar things after the argentinian loss and i was happy to go with it, bit of a blip, ambushed but a hungry pumas side, took our eye of the ball etc....but there are been too many "blips" now
People rubbish the WR rankings, and I think that RWC shouldn’t be weighted as it is, but the decline under Foster is easy to see on that line
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
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@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
I agree, I’d love to see how it went with the RWC weighting removed (only added in so there is almost no way a RWC winner not be ranked 1 after the final) as that would be a better indication of actual relative performance.
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@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting
It is not just for the winner, all games in the RWC are worth double points, plus and minus
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Danny, did you back the appointment of Fozzie originally?
Do you think we need Change now?
The frustrating thing about Foster and his reign as AB coach is that it has been entirely predictable. The vast majority of fans knew this was a poor appointment, notwithstanding the issues that lay ahead of NZ rugby after the RWC2019.
If the average Person can see something the NZR can’t? What does that say about how the game is run in this country?
I'll play devil's advocate here:
Foster's time as head coach with the Chiefs wasn't great. But people can develop and improve if they show that they can learn from past mistakes.
Foster was given massive wraps by Hansen working as his assistant in 2015. It suggested that he had learned from past mistakes and was capable of leading a high performance team. that was how Hansen sold it at the end of his tenure as head coach.
Hansen's recommendation and NZRU's steadfast refusal to move away from the succession planning that had worked since Henry (yielding 2 back to back world cups) is what led to Foster.
You can see some method to the madness, but I am intrigued to know what Foster presented to the NZRU hiring committee. If he sold them on changing the team's tactics, there is little evidence thus far to say he has delivered.
The alarm bells were ringing after Lions 2017, and certainly after WC 2019. Did NZRU go for the continuity candidate and ignore the signs that the ABs were going stale because continuity had been so successful in the past? Or did Foster convince them that he was going to do things very differently from Hansen and revitalise the team, and that as a member of the current coaching team he was best placed to do that in a more seamless manner than a new coach (e.g. Razor)? If so, how did he convince them that he was capable of doing this?
@stodders good questions
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so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
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so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
There hasn't been a presser yet.
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so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
Obviously that was the first question asked by our tenacious rugby press…
…oh no.
But the awesome media machine of NZR that just loves to keep us informed with the most up to the minute info has released that…
…naaaah
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting
It is not just for the winner, all games in the RWC are worth double points, plus and minus
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting
It is not just for the winner, all games in the RWC are worth double points, plus and minus
yeah, so the further you go in the comp the more "extra" point you get
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
And they lost a bit or credibality when Boks remained on top for a year by simply not playing. I think maybe if you need rankings that's what we got, that's as good as anything. Until such time as we get a world league or something they will stay same. And didn't realise there was WC winner weighting.
i wasn't too worried about the SA staying top thing, thats just how far they were ahead, largely due to the RWC extra points but them is the rules, whilst i believe we were easily the top team from 2011 through 2015....the gap we had over the other teams was huge due to the back to back RWC's so we've benefited from it too, im also pretty forgiving with anything COVID fucked up, its righting itself pretty quickly
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@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
It's quite possible after this weekend that we end up back at number 2 (if we win of course). The top places are very close together points wise and there could be a big shuffle. Oz can drop as low as 7 I think.
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I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.Because Sexton is a mouthy git* and Doris wears sensible shoes.**
Actually you make good points, I wonder if it is because fans don't mix like they used to (so many at home watching from tv with their rewind and slow frame buttons).
Ireland played well, they have good players (I still think there are some limitations with the midfield and outer backs (oh I like the Irish 15) but if the ABs can't capitalise on these weaknesses something is wrong (maybe I am).
*yet I like Coles so I am a hypocrite.
**not true, sorry Caelan. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
It's quite possible after this weekend that we end up back at number 2 (if we win of course). The top places are very close together points wise and there could be a big shuffle. Oz can drop as low as 7 I think.
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Machpants yeah, theyve always made some sense to me, i think people look at the position and put a lot more weighting on that than the actual score, people claiming to be infinitely better than another team thats only fractions of a point off them
It's quite possible after this weekend that we end up back at number 2 (if we win of course). The top places are very close together points wise and there could be a big shuffle. Oz can drop as low as 7 I think.
which i guess makes sense with the results we've seen over the last year, top 6 are all pretty close compared to the past
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Apparently Foster said in an interview after the game ‘we haven’t become a bad team overnight’ Yeah it’s taken the couple of years with you in charge!
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Apparently Foster said in an interview after the game ‘I haven’t become a bad coach overnight’ ...
fixed it for you:)
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@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Does anyone think Foster has lost the dressing room?
Or is he in the process of losing it...I’d have to go and get changed with the All Blacks to answer that unequivocally
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Does anyone think Foster has lost the dressing room?
Or is he in the process of losing it...I’d have to go and get changed with the All Blacks to answer that unequivocally
The question was has Foster lost the dressing room, not: have you scared the dressing room?
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@Crucial yep, def one of the issues.
BUt you have to wonder, all this aimless kicking (ignoring the length for a moment) is surely part of the game plan? Maybe not aimless, but not putting it to touch, we are kicking it to them to run back at us, therefore are we meant to be pressuring them with our kick chase more, is our chase defence not doing its job?
Yep, 10 is absolutely part of the problem, but it isnt the only one...BB is a fantastic runner, he can kick, but something not quite right there presently, we also have JB who can slot in at first receiver, why are we not utilising him more, like we used to with Dagg?
Playing smarter rugby would help, rather than this heads up, all out score from anywhere, play smart, those chances will come, instead we constantly put ourselves under pressure at the wrong end of the park (well both ends TBF)
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Crucial yep, def one of the issues.
BUt you have to wonder, all this aimless kicking (ignoring the length for a moment) is surely part of the game plan? Maybe not aimless, but not putting it to touch, we are kicking it to them to run back at us, therefore are we meant to be pressuring them with our kick chase more, is our chase defence not doing its job?
Yep, 10 is absolutely part of the problem, but it isnt the only one...BB is a fantastic runner, he can kick, but something not quite right there presently, we also have JB who can slot in at first receiver, why are we not utilising him more, like we used to with Dagg?
Playing smarter rugby would help, rather than this heads up, all out score from anywhere, play smart, those chances will come, instead we constantly put ourselves under pressure at the wrong end of the park (well both ends TBF)
I thought Jordie's kicking hasn't been that great this series (apart from conversions).
I was really impressed with Jordan's kicking in the final against the Blues (for what it is worth as a non Cantab). -
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
There hasn't been a presser yet.
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
so, have we worked out of Samisoni is injured or not?
There hasn't been a presser yet.
It’s only just after 3pm. Foster is still having morning tea. Takes a long time to eat 65 scones.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I will add that last night it occured to me what I finding most disconcerting about the position we find ourselves in (or ABs) and the reaction on rugby forums. We are tied in a test series and 4th on the rankings in world rugby, and while being a bit disppointed, not as disappointed as maybe the reaction on forums by so called AB supporters, there seems almost no credit given to Ireland for winning 2nd test, only tearing clothes and screaming about how poor ABs were, want to know something Irish were bloody good and made us look poor, and we 4th on rankings, prehaps French (in my opinion clearly best team), Ireland , and Boks (though I feel some of theirs is residual points from year off) just deserve to be in the positions they are in. When I was thinking of it I was thinking how much as a rugby nation we used to enjoy and celebrate bloody good teams and players, 71 Lions tour the whole of NZ knew all the Lion's players, and while wanting ABs to win would seemingly enjoy the Edwards, Johns, Gibson ete, etc skils, same as Wallabies when they had the likes of Ella, Campese, Eales etc, why has it in internet days changed where we can't give the likes of Doris, Sexton etc credit for being good players? I an starting to understand why maybe AB supporters are disliked by others at times.
Ok my rant over, but I think it came to me when I wondered why I was disappointed to miss club rugby this weekend while going to test, and that's one thing that came to mind, we don't think it our right to win at the club etc.Because Sexton is a mouthy git* and Doris wears sensible shoes.**
Actually you make good points, I wonder if it is because fans don't mix like they used to (so many at home watching from tv with their rewind and slow frame buttons).
Ireland played well, they have good players (I still think there are some limitations with the midfield and outer backs (oh I like the Irish 15) but if the ABs can't capitalise on these weaknesses something is wrong (maybe I am).
*yet I like Coles so I am a hypocrite.
**not true, sorry Caelan.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Because Sexton is a mouthy git* and Doris wears sensible shoes.**
Actually you make good points, I wonder if it is because fans don't mix like they used to (so many at home watching from tv with their rewind and slow frame buttons).
Ireland played well, they have good players (I still think there are some limitations with the midfield and outer backs (oh I like the Irish 15) but if the ABs can't capitalise on these weaknesses something is wrong (maybe I am).
*yet I like Coles so I am a hypocrite.
**not true, sorry Caelan.I actually think there culd be a lot in the fans don't mix a lot, and tend to do a lot of discussing on the net, where everyone sounds maybe more harsh than they probably mean (well I put my hand up for that as I still find talking over a beer easier) and then everyone digs in. I go into a few forums, and find the interaction in general is a lot less friendly etc than when we talk in person.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Why start Nepo? It's not like our scrum creaks against Ireland with that second row pushing. And Nepo offers less than nothing around the ground.
I am happy that Ofa has paid for his terrible performance. It goes without saying that it would be much better if we had a better alternative than Nepo.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Why start Nepo? It's not like our scrum creaks against Ireland with that second row pushing. And Nepo offers less than nothing around the ground.
I am happy that Ofa has paid for his terrible performance. It goes without saying that it would be much better if we had a better alternative than Nepo.
I am surprised Ofa is there at all.
