Foster, Robertson etc
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Do you think Razor would want this team now? I wonder if he would prefer to take the gig after the WC?
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
Do you think Razor would want this team now? I wonder if he would prefer to take the gig after the WC?
If he takes over now and wins the RWC it would be the greatest AB coach achievement ever. That’s tempting!
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@Tim said in Foster must go:
New Zealand Rugby boss Mark Robinson has labelled the All Blacks' first home series defeat in 27 years unacceptable and says work will begin immediately with head coach Ian Foster to grasp how the team reached this position.
Robinson's statement came after the All Blacks cancelled a scheduled media conference on Sunday.
One day after the 32-22 third test loss to Ireland in Wellington consigned the All Blacks to their first home series defeat since 1994, a coach was scheduled to front media at their team hotel.
When media arrived, however, they were eventually told the stand-up had been cancelled.
Attempting to address widespread speculation and pressure on Foster and his All Blacks coaching team, Robinson suggested he would be involved in meeting with the team before their two-test tour of South Africa begins on August 7.
"Congratulations to the Irish team for their well-deserved win last night but clearly the performance across the series for the All Blacks was not acceptable as we know they have reflected. We all know there is a huge amount of work to do," Robinson said.
"Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
Unless foster and his team, are gone before the RC, then this result is obviously acceptable, because keeping that bunch in employment is accepting it!
It's gotta be fast, so I'm worried one of the assistants will take over as caretaker even ifis he does go (he won't) that'll be even worse!
@Machpants Schmidt is there, has head coach experience, he could be interim until they negotiate with Razor, who we know is likely only in if he is running the ship.
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Wonder if Silverlake will also have a say in the matter. Unlike the NZR, they believe in achieving results.
@akan004 maybe a positive unintended consequence if they look on and think this is a shit show...that said, the deal was only ratified a month or so back, so given the magnitude it is likely still in the processing phase...
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What’s sad is all this could be avoided. They basically signalled to every and all other NZ coaches (rennie, Joseph etc etc etc) that they woujd be appointing foster, gave Robertson an interview for the form…and then appointed a guy whose CV shows zero zilch nada success as head coach.
We need a complete and total break with the Henry-Hansen era.
I think the players have 100% the support of the public, everyone can see that foster is a busted flush. There is no shame losing narrowly to Ireland, france etc (especially in Paris or Dublin), but no obvious gameplan leading to fairly comprehensive defeats in nZ is just not acceptable.
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@Machpants Schmidt is there, has head coach experience, he could be interim until they negotiate with Razor, who we know is likely only in if he is running the ship.
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@Machpants Schmidt is there, has head coach experience, he could be interim until they negotiate with Razor, who we know is likely only in if he is running the ship.
He doesn't want to do it, so it's not an option. He'd have to commit, not something he wants.
If Erasmus can turn a team around, in much worse state than the ABs, razor would have no problem
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@Machpants Schmidt is there, has head coach experience, he could be interim until they negotiate with Razor, who we know is likely only in if he is running the ship.
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@Machpants Schmidt is there, has head coach experience, he could be interim until they negotiate with Razor, who we know is likely only in if he is running the ship.
Razor is the biggest example of rugby coaching excellence most of these players know below test level. He has either coached these boys to titles or beaten the brakes of the rest. It's his time.
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Do you think Razor would want this team now? I wonder if he would prefer to take the gig after the WC?
@chimoaus Look at the quick improvements the Black Ferns have made since they changed coaches earlier this year. It may not be enough for the women's World Cup this year, but the improvements are undeniable. Razor would have more time with the ABs. Even if the ABs don't win the 2023 RWC, he will be able to improve their performance enough to avoid a complete embarrassement. We may lose to France, but it may be a close contest instead of an annihilation.
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The Foster era for is summed up by the selection of Karl. The guy is far from a lock in the 23 let alone the starting XV. And he’s going overseas. “We think he is our best LH scrummager”.
If Roberson takes over there will be some nervous props in the current squad and some expectant ones outside it.
(Except for Karl - he’s going overseas)
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@Stargazer said in Will Foster go?:
Has anyone checked the airports, yet? Has Razor already returned from Fiji?
Yes, last week. I saw him go
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@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@Machpants Schmidt is there, has head coach experience, he could be interim until they negotiate with Razor, who we know is likely only in if he is running the ship.
He doesn't want to do it, so it's not an option. He'd have to commit, not something he wants.
If Erasmus can turn a team around, in much worse state than the ABs, razor would have no problem
@Machpants I did say he could do it while they negotiated with Razor, I am sure he'd be ok with that (he did it while Fozzie had Covid...) given if Razor was offered it he'd need to select TRC squad, so it wouldnt be a long process...that is assuming, things change.
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The Foster era for is summed up by the selection of Karl. The guy is far from a lock in the 23 let alone the starting XV. And he’s going overseas. “We think he is our best LH scrummager”.
If Roberson takes over there will be some nervous props in the current squad and some expectant ones outside it.
(Except for Karl - he’s going overseas)
@Billy-Tell I'm totally with you. Foster, Plumtree, and McLeod all need to be gone. Nothing changed tactically between the 2nd and 3rd tests. Once again found out by a rushing defence, which everybody knew Ireland would use. Absolutely zero in the way of creativity. Our only tactics in the backline appeared to be crash the middle or kick pass. Ireland were fantastic, but we all knew the Northern hemisphere teams were catching up and fast, but we've done nothing to stay ahead of the pack. It's time for Schmidt, Robertson,and if they can get him Gatland. Let them bring in others if the want.
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Do you think Razor would want this team now? I wonder if he would prefer to take the gig after the WC?
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If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
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If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
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If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
Jason Ryan would be a lock in.
I would say he would love to get O'Gara back but I think he is pretty entrenched where is is.
Leon McDonald could be a chance they are good mates.
Andrew Goodman if he could get him back from Leinster.
Clayton McMillan another coach who gets on well with Razor.All would be in Razor's mind I think.
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@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
Jason Ryan would be a lock in.
I would say he would love to get O'Gara back but I think he is pretty entrenched where is is.
Leon McDonald could be a chance they are good mates.
Andrew Goodman if he could get him back from Leinster.
Clayton McMillan another coach who gets on well with Razor.All would be in Razor's mind I think.
@Chris said in Foster must go:
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
Jason Ryan would be a lock in.
I would say he would love to get O'Gara back but I think he is pretty entrenched where is is.
Leon McDonald could be a chance they are good mates.
Andrew Goodman if he could get him back from Leinster.
Clayton McMillan another coach who gets on well with Razor.All would be in Razor's mind I think.
So Fozzie to the Chiefs, Mooar to the Crusaders and Plumtree to the Blues, straight swap to keep them on the books?
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@Chris said in Foster must go:
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
Jason Ryan would be a lock in.
I would say he would love to get O'Gara back but I think he is pretty entrenched where is is.
Leon McDonald could be a chance they are good mates.
Andrew Goodman if he could get him back from Leinster.
Clayton McMillan another coach who gets on well with Razor.All would be in Razor's mind I think.
So Fozzie to the Chiefs, Mooar to the Crusaders and Plumtree to the Blues, straight swap to keep them on the books?
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
Jason Ryan would be a lock in.
I would say he would love to get O'Gara back but I think he is pretty entrenched where is is.
Leon McDonald could be a chance they are good mates.
Andrew Goodman if he could get him back from Leinster.
Clayton McMillan another coach who gets on well with Razor.All would be in Razor's mind I think.
So Fozzie to the Chiefs, Mooar to the Crusaders and Plumtree to the Blues, straight swap to keep them on the books?
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That article above was good reading.
I think obviously the current coaching team has to bear some of the blame - there is a lot of talent there and making it all point in the same direction is their fucking job, really. Not like basic skills are lacking.
However, I think in a way Steve Hansen got the golden spot, but was also part of the problem. He was given a very good core of hard-nosed players and just had to make sure things ticked along. IMHO during that time, a form of arrogance entered the AB culture (moreso at the player level, not the management) that was based on the fact that they were winning games simply by scoring more than the opposition.
Sounds obvious, but when your entire game plan is "Beaudy puts in a kick that bounces 40cm from touch then snaps back straight into his hands 5m laterally for him to score" you're going to struggle at some point. When you can recover a deficit simply by scoring a couple of quick tries off individual talent, it masks the defensive issues that may have forced you into that situation.
I equate it to the Wallabies around the turn of the century: when your back line is that fucking good, finding great props in a barely-contested scrum environment isn't a priority.
We can talk all we want about who has the better players, but who has the better team is more important in a team sport. Duh.
"We shouldn't lose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.
It isn't just Foster and just replacing Foster almost certainly won't fix things on it's own. We need far deeper analysis & change. When you have businesses performing as poorly as this team, you need to look at what has happened and why and identify the root causes of the problems and then fix them. That's up to NZR.
I'm not going to step back into my career, but one example: We have two All-Time Greats at 4 & 5 nearing the end of the road with no clear succession planning until last year when Foster blooded Lord and Vaii - it was all about hoping Pat T would come right or sticking a 6 in at lock. There's a 10+ year gap in age between those two pairs. Ditto Hooker with Coles & Taylor
That really isn't Foster's fault (and to give him credit, he's been very open to developing new players) but down to previous Head coaches and selections.
So who in NZR was responsible for spotting this, didn't notice, express concerns and help fix the lack of succession planning in key positions? Did they have a process in place to identify and action issues like this? If not then why?
Plenty of people other than the Coaching team need to take a good hard look at themselves, accept they have had a part in the problem and either fix it or bugger off and get someone else in to sort the problems out.
