Foster, Robertson etc
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That article above was good reading.
I think obviously the current coaching team has to bear some of the blame - there is a lot of talent there and making it all point in the same direction is their fucking job, really. Not like basic skills are lacking.
However, I think in a way Steve Hansen got the golden spot, but was also part of the problem. He was given a very good core of hard-nosed players and just had to make sure things ticked along. IMHO during that time, a form of arrogance entered the AB culture (moreso at the player level, not the management) that was based on the fact that they were winning games simply by scoring more than the opposition.
Sounds obvious, but when your entire game plan is "Beaudy puts in a kick that bounces 40cm from touch then snaps back straight into his hands 5m laterally for him to score" you're going to struggle at some point. When you can recover a deficit simply by scoring a couple of quick tries off individual talent, it masks the defensive issues that may have forced you into that situation.
I equate it to the Wallabies around the turn of the century: when your back line is that fucking good, finding great props in a barely-contested scrum environment isn't a priority.
We can talk all we want about who has the better players, but who has the better team is more important in a team sport. Duh.
"We shouldn't lose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.
It isn't just Foster and just replacing Foster almost certainly won't fix things on it's own. We need far deeper analysis & change. When you have businesses performing as poorly as this team, you need to look at what has happened and why and identify the root causes of the problems and then fix them. That's up to NZR.
I'm not going to step back into my career, but one example: We have two All-Time Greats at 4 & 5 nearing the end of the road with no clear succession planning until last year when Foster blooded Lord and Vaii - it was all about hoping Pat T would come right or sticking a 6 in at lock. There's a 10+ year gap in age between those two pairs. Ditto Hooker with Coles & Taylor
That really isn't Foster's fault (and to give him credit, he's been very open to developing new players) but down to previous Head coaches and selections.
So who in NZR was responsible for spotting this, didn't notice, express concerns and help fix the lack of succession planning in key positions? Did they have a process in place to identify and action issues like this? If not then why?
Plenty of people other than the Coaching team need to take a good hard look at themselves, accept they have had a part in the problem and either fix it or bugger off and get someone else in to sort the problems out.
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An enterprising journo needs to get the good oil on what the players are thinking. Plainly, they are an unhappy crew. Foster pulling Cane 15 minutes before the final whistle in Wellington suggested he was trying to make his own captain the patsy for the tripe that was served up. Something is rotten in the state of
DenmarkAotearoa. -
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
If he is resigning or being sacked, it would be true to form that Foster and Robinson still make a meal out of that "process" too...
There's a process to sort shit out?
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@ploughboy said in Foster must go:
foster to stay to be joined by gatland and schmidt
That scenario would only work if Foster took up a "weekend at Bernie's" style role
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@Crucial would seem ridiculous that his role wouldn't include KPIs around winning...unless in thier arrogance prior to TRC last year, they thought 'it's only Ireland'
Everything about his role is geared to winning first, and then development, he has failed at the 1st one, I'd say all depends on how you view.development as to if he meets that one...if on new players making the step up, he probably gets a pass mark, if you include the likes of innovation in the development of NZ rugby aspect, he fails again...
Makes you wonder what he has to fall back on of he walks (pushed) as coaching surely ain't gonna be an option for the foreseeable future?
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
would seem ridiculous that his role wouldn't include KPIs around winning.
You would think so, but you'd be amazed at what's not included at top levels of management in failing organisations
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SENZ: FORMER ALL BLACK PLEADS IAN FOSTER TO DO “WHAT’S BEST FOR THE TEAM” AND RESIGN
Former All Black Steve Devine has predicted Ian Foster will no longer be head coach by “6:30pm tonight.”
The national side lost their first series to Ireland in history on Saturday evening to cap off a disappointing year and a half of international rugby.
Under Foster’s leadership, the All Blacks have achieved just a 66.7 per cent win rate, which as the worst in the side’s professional history, has prompted many to call for his resignation.
Devine has weighed in on the situation and believes that if Foster wants to do what’s “best for the team” he should step down before August’s Rugby Championship.
“We have heard from the All Blacks for the last 30 years … it’s not about an individual, it’s about the player and it’s about what’s best for the team,” Devine said on SENZ’s The Rugby Run.
“So right now, what is best for the team … and if Ian Foster asks himself that question, I can’t see him being coach by 6:30pm tonight.
“What’s best for the team? That’s the question that needs to be asked right now.”
Devine has cited a lack of adaptability and enterprise as the main reasoning behind his call for Foster to resign, as the side has continued to make the same mistakes week after week.
With the Rugby World Cup just around the corner in 2023, the former national player believes it is best for the All Blacks to embark on a new direction without him at the helm.
“It’s the same mistakes every week,” Devine continued.
“We’re not winning the kicking battle, we’re not attacking … we’re big strong rugby players that play Super Rugby, who like to run and throw the ball around yet we turn up in an All Blacks jumper and we’re standing flat on attack.
“We’re not carrying and we’re looking around … it’s just not gelling.
“To me, I’ve had coaches that when it’s been good, everything is easy and everything goes well and when we’ve had coaches that haven’t been good, then that’s what we get.
“From where I’m looking, that’s what I’m seeing. It’s just not gelling at all.”
Following the All Blacks’ failure to front the media on Sunday morning, it seems decisions may be made around Foster’s future sooner rather than later
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SENZ: FORMER ALL BLACK PLEADS IAN FOSTER TO DO “WHAT’S BEST FOR THE TEAM” AND RESIGN
Former All Black Steve Devine has predicted Ian Foster will no longer be head coach by “6:30pm tonight.”
The national side lost their first series to Ireland in history on Saturday evening to cap off a disappointing year and a half of international rugby.
Under Foster’s leadership, the All Blacks have achieved just a 66.7 per cent win rate, which as the worst in the side’s professional history, has prompted many to call for his resignation.
Devine has weighed in on the situation and believes that if Foster wants to do what’s “best for the team” he should step down before August’s Rugby Championship.
“We have heard from the All Blacks for the last 30 years … it’s not about an individual, it’s about the player and it’s about what’s best for the team,” Devine said on SENZ’s The Rugby Run.
“So right now, what is best for the team … and if Ian Foster asks himself that question, I can’t see him being coach by 6:30pm tonight.
“What’s best for the team? That’s the question that needs to be asked right now.”
Devine has cited a lack of adaptability and enterprise as the main reasoning behind his call for Foster to resign, as the side has continued to make the same mistakes week after week.
With the Rugby World Cup just around the corner in 2023, the former national player believes it is best for the All Blacks to embark on a new direction without him at the helm.
“It’s the same mistakes every week,” Devine continued.
“We’re not winning the kicking battle, we’re not attacking … we’re big strong rugby players that play Super Rugby, who like to run and throw the ball around yet we turn up in an All Blacks jumper and we’re standing flat on attack.
“We’re not carrying and we’re looking around … it’s just not gelling.
“To me, I’ve had coaches that when it’s been good, everything is easy and everything goes well and when we’ve had coaches that haven’t been good, then that’s what we get.
“From where I’m looking, that’s what I’m seeing. It’s just not gelling at all.”
Following the All Blacks’ failure to front the media on Sunday morning, it seems decisions may be made around Foster’s future sooner rather than later
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@Donsteppa According to Steve, Fozz has 14 minutes to go
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa According to Steve, Fozz has 14 minutes to go
I’m fucking counting down.
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@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa According to Steve, Fozz has 14 minutes to go
I’m fucking counting down.
@Kirwan said in Foster must go:
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa According to Steve, Fozz has 14 minutes to go
I’m fucking counting down.
It's getting close to pitchfork time
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What is damning
This run of result's isn't one year where a guy can make a case he can go away and fix it
2020 wasn't good
2021 finished badlyWe've come back at the start of 2022 with the same old rubbish. I think there is enough evidence there that no matter what Ian says, he can't fix it
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It's also really important that the people that made the decision to appoint Foster instead of another more highly credentialed coach be held accountable for that decision. More than just Foster needs to go.
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What is damning
This run of result's isn't one year where a guy can make a case he can go away and fix it
2020 wasn't good
2021 finished badlyWe've come back at the start of 2022 with the same old rubbish. I think there is enough evidence there that no matter what Ian says, he can't fix it
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
I thinkthere is enough evidence there that no matter what Ian says, he can't fix ityou dont need "I think" in there, 4 losses form our last 5, and how many games in between the SA loss and the 1st Irish Loss in 2021, 3?, so 5 losses from our last 8 outings?
Take out Fiji, Tonga, USA and Italy in the past 24 months she is pretty bleak reading!
11 wins, 7 losses and a draw...57.9% win ratio
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What is damning
This run of result's isn't one year where a guy can make a case he can go away and fix it
2020 wasn't good
2021 finished badlyWe've come back at the start of 2022 with the same old rubbish. I think there is enough evidence there that no matter what Ian says, he can't fix it
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
What is damning
This run of result's isn't one year where a guy can make a case he can go away and fix it
2020 wasn't good
2021 finished badlyWe've come back at the start of 2022 with the same old rubbish. I think there is enough evidence there that no matter what Ian says, he can't fix it
We've been trying to combat the rush defence since 2017, it is the entire NZR and Hansen jobs for the boys shit that is the problem. Add to NZR's awful work with our 'closest' partners (SR shit), and internal stakeholders (Silverlake shit) points to them all resigning by 630!
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Someone said there was an 0900 press conference this morning. Anyone got any sauce?
Also, continuing the theme, autocorrect press went to pies. Go Foster
@nzzp said in Foster must go:
Someone said there was an 0900 press conference this morning. Anyone got any sauce?
Also, continuing the theme, autocorrect press went to pies. Go Foster
I'm down with a pies conference. I'll even take one for the team.
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I wonder how NZ would react if Razor did take over and the ABs were still bundled out in the WC quarters. Because that could still very well happen.
And I don't expect Razor to unlock the rush defence. The Saders have had trouble dealing with the Chiefs when they have executed their version of it well.
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@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
If Razor takes over who is available as his assistants? I just wouldnt want them taking the best of whats left as opposed to getting the team he wants. I feel O'Gara needs to be part of the setup with his experience with Razor and his recent success in France. Who do you think Razor would want?
Jason Ryan would be a lock in.
I would say he would love to get O'Gara back but I think he is pretty entrenched where is is.
Leon McDonald could be a chance they are good mates.
Andrew Goodman if he could get him back from Leinster.
Clayton McMillan another coach who gets on well with Razor.All would be in Razor's mind I think.
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/471085/rugby-when-you-accept-mediocrity-this-is-what-happens
“There is a certain type of New Zealander on social media. Chances are they are commenting on this very story right now, probably making spelling errors and thinking that they represent a modern, common sense attitude towards the All Blacks and rugby in general. Chances are they haven't and won't actually read this either.”
I think he’s talking about old mate @Dan54 here
@junior said in Foster must go:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/471085/rugby-when-you-accept-mediocrity-this-is-what-happens
“There is a certain type of New Zealander on social media. Chances are they are commenting on this very story right now, probably making spelling errors and thinking that they represent a modern, common sense attitude towards the All Blacks and rugby in general. Chances are they haven't and won't actually read this either.”
I think he’s talking about old mate @Dan54 here
Never accept mediocrity mate, just don't pretend to know all the answers,I also know I have never yet seen perfection in a game. I just got home from test (stayed in Wellington etc), hey thats why I come in here to see what they are, and you will obviously be able to enlighten me. Lol
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@Chris Tamati Ellison as defense coach he has be phenomenal with the Crusaders. 200 plus tackles v the Chiefs setting a new Super Rugby record, what better credentials would he need.
@SBW1 said in Foster must go:
@Chris Tamati Ellison as defense coach he has be phenomenal with the Crusaders. 200 plus tackles v the Chiefs setting a new Super Rugby record, what better credentials would he need.
Yes he has been Awesome he would be in the mix.
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It isn't just Foster and just replacing Foster almost certainly won't fix things on it's own. We need far deeper analysis & change. When you have businesses performing as poorly as this team, you need to look at what has happened and why and identify the root causes of the problems and then fix them. That's up to NZR.
I'm not going to step back into my career, but one example: We have two All-Time Greats at 4 & 5 nearing the end of the road with no clear succession planning until last year when Foster blooded Lord and Vaii - it was all about hoping Pat T would come right or sticking a 6 in at lock. There's a 10+ year gap in age between those two pairs. Ditto Hooker with Coles & Taylor
That really isn't Foster's fault (and to give him credit, he's been very open to developing new players) but down to previous Head coaches and selections.
So who in NZR was responsible for spotting this, didn't notice, express concerns and help fix the lack of succession planning in key positions? Did they have a process in place to identify and action issues like this? If not then why?
Plenty of people other than the Coaching team need to take a good hard look at themselves, accept they have had a part in the problem and either fix it or bugger off and get someone else in to sort the problems out.
@Victor-Meldrew Are you Jeff Wilson in disguise?
He looks more like you every time I see him!
