All Blacks 2022
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
So with Lord and Retallick out Scott Barrett under a cloud, we will need to bring in lock or two. I thought a couple of the MAB locks fared pretty well and Dickson would be my first port of call as cover.
I think they’ll keep Bower, Ross, Ta’avao, Tu’ungafasi and Laulala. I wouldn’t have the latter two and would replace Karl T.
A good opportunity to start Sami in all RC tests and rotate the bench hooker. I’d keep Taylor to play that role in some of them but also have one other. Don’t know who because Eklund and Aumua don’t fill me with great confidence. Where’s the empty cupboard emoji…
In the post match Fozzie seemed pissed of at the players as if they didn't do what was asked. It will be very interesting to see where the axe swings.
I think that the locks did their roles (even if those roles weren't great). It was obvious that BBBRs job was to carry and tackle close while SWs was to clean out slightly wider.
Taylor was a huge let down, but as you say, we need him still there as the options aren't great. Eklund didn't look the goods against Ireland B. Aumua hasn't risen above 'potential'.
Do we take a hail mary shot and throw in an understudy that gets extra coaching?
Karl T will be gone anyway and it's time to invest heavily in Ross/De Groot.
I'm going to get shot down heavily here as a 'hater' but I don't see Akira being the answer at 6. Is he our best option right now? Probably. But I can see why Barrett was put in. Where are our 6s that play direct, suck in tacklers, make metres and, most importantly, own their channel and make others think twice about going that way..Second to Cane in tackles made. Most amount of metres made running the ball. More defenders beaten than anyone else. I'd suggest the problem doesn't lay there.
Before this goes off track I'm not saying at all that Akira didn't have a good game or that he is a problem area. I am saying that IF we are to play a direct tighter game to get forward ascendency I am not yet convinced that he is the player we need (mainly because I don't see him being used that way.)
Maybe a casualty in my viewing of the (lack of) gameplan.
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
Again, this is not to say that he isn't our best option in the jersey or that he is a poor player.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess
very fair comment. Makes a heap of stops well behind the advantage line, but because it's a wrestle, teh opposition often get support behind the ball so we can't generate a turnover
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
So with Lord and Retallick out Scott Barrett under a cloud, we will need to bring in lock or two. I thought a couple of the MAB locks fared pretty well and Dickson would be my first port of call as cover.
I think they’ll keep Bower, Ross, Ta’avao, Tu’ungafasi and Laulala. I wouldn’t have the latter two and would replace Karl T.
A good opportunity to start Sami in all RC tests and rotate the bench hooker. I’d keep Taylor to play that role in some of them but also have one other. Don’t know who because Eklund and Aumua don’t fill me with great confidence. Where’s the empty cupboard emoji…
In the post match Fozzie seemed pissed of at the players as if they didn't do what was asked. It will be very interesting to see where the axe swings.
I think that the locks did their roles (even if those roles weren't great). It was obvious that BBBRs job was to carry and tackle close while SWs was to clean out slightly wider.
Taylor was a huge let down, but as you say, we need him still there as the options aren't great. Eklund didn't look the goods against Ireland B. Aumua hasn't risen above 'potential'.
Do we take a hail mary shot and throw in an understudy that gets extra coaching?
Karl T will be gone anyway and it's time to invest heavily in Ross/De Groot.
I'm going to get shot down heavily here as a 'hater' but I don't see Akira being the answer at 6. Is he our best option right now? Probably. But I can see why Barrett was put in. Where are our 6s that play direct, suck in tacklers, make metres and, most importantly, own their channel and make others think twice about going that way..Second to Cane in tackles made. Most amount of metres made running the ball. More defenders beaten than anyone else. I'd suggest the problem doesn't lay there.
Before this goes off track I'm not saying at all that Akira didn't have a good game or that he is a problem area. I am saying that IF we are to play a direct tighter game to get forward ascendency I am not yet convinced that he is the player we need (mainly because I don't see him being used that way.)
Maybe a casualty in my viewing of the (lack of) gameplan.
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
Again, this is not to say that he isn't our best option in the jersey or that he is a poor player.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
Probably the best player in the country at stopping attacking momentum and holding up the ball for a maul turnover. It's a huge part of his game
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@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
Probably the best player in the country at stopping attacking momentum and holding up the ball for a maul turnover. It's a huge part of his game
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
Probably the best player in the country at stopping attacking momentum and holding up the ball for a maul turnover. It's a huge part of his game
True, but good teams don't let that happen much. At the top level stopping someone dead in their tracks and putting them down quickly is the biggest momentum killer and momentum is the main thing you don't want them to get.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
Probably the best player in the country at stopping attacking momentum and holding up the ball for a maul turnover. It's a huge part of his game
True, but good teams don't let that happen much. At the top level stopping someone dead in their tracks and putting them down quickly is the biggest momentum killer and momentum is the main thing you don't want them to get.
He doesn't always go for the held up. I don't think there is another loose forward that stop the opposition momentum as good as him close to the line. Defensive strength post contact slows everything down on attack
It'd be nice if some of the tight five joined in every now and then
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Thought that was a breakout game by Akira. He and Savea were the best AB forwards out there. All we need now is a No.8 to complement them.
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He doesn't always go for the held up. I don't think there is another loose forward that stop the opposition momentum as good as him close to the line. Defensive strength post contact slows everything down on attack
It'd be nice if some of the tight five joined in every now and then
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
He doesn't always go for the held up. I don't think there is another loose forward that stop the opposition momentum as good as him close to the line. Defensive strength post contact slows everything down on attack
It'd be nice if some of the tight five joined in every now and then
I saw BBBR putting in heaps of work. Pity that the other four were tasked with standing in pods or staying wide.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:
He doesn't always go for the held up. I don't think there is another loose forward that stop the opposition momentum as good as him close to the line. Defensive strength post contact slows everything down on attack
It'd be nice if some of the tight five joined in every now and then
I saw BBBR putting in heaps of work. Pity that the other four were tasked with standing in pods or staying wide.
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
tasked with standing in pods or staying wide.
lots of the first half looked like U12s with kicking. everyone avoiding the ruck and getting themselves in position to do a run by themselves.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2022:
So with Lord and Retallick out Scott Barrett under a cloud, we will need to bring in lock or two. I thought a couple of the MAB locks fared pretty well and Dickson would be my first port of call as cover.
I think they’ll keep Bower, Ross, Ta’avao, Tu’ungafasi and Laulala. I wouldn’t have the latter two and would replace Karl T.
A good opportunity to start Sami in all RC tests and rotate the bench hooker. I’d keep Taylor to play that role in some of them but also have one other. Don’t know who because Eklund and Aumua don’t fill me with great confidence. Where’s the empty cupboard emoji…
In the post match Fozzie seemed pissed of at the players as if they didn't do what was asked. It will be very interesting to see where the axe swings.
I think that the locks did their roles (even if those roles weren't great). It was obvious that BBBRs job was to carry and tackle close while SWs was to clean out slightly wider.
Taylor was a huge let down, but as you say, we need him still there as the options aren't great. Eklund didn't look the goods against Ireland B. Aumua hasn't risen above 'potential'.
Do we take a hail mary shot and throw in an understudy that gets extra coaching?
Karl T will be gone anyway and it's time to invest heavily in Ross/De Groot.
I'm going to get shot down heavily here as a 'hater' but I don't see Akira being the answer at 6. Is he our best option right now? Probably. But I can see why Barrett was put in. Where are our 6s that play direct, suck in tacklers, make metres and, most importantly, own their channel and make others think twice about going that way..Second to Cane in tackles made. Most amount of metres made running the ball. More defenders beaten than anyone else. I'd suggest the problem doesn't lay there.
Before this goes off track I'm not saying at all that Akira didn't have a good game or that he is a problem area. I am saying that IF we are to play a direct tighter game to get forward ascendency I am not yet convinced that he is the player we need (mainly because I don't see him being used that way.)
Maybe a casualty in my viewing of the (lack of) gameplan.
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
Again, this is not to say that he isn't our best option in the jersey or that he is a poor player.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
This also applies to his running style with the ball.
He likes to jink just prior to contact rather than run straight and hard and blast through. Not saying it isn't effective sometimes (like the last game), but it appears he has the size and power to be a direct runner. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
This also applies to his running style with the ball.
He likes to jink just prior to contact rather than run straight and hard and blast through. Not saying it isn't effective sometimes (like the last game), but it appears he has the size and power to be a direct runner.@Frank said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
If I had to pick one thing that gives me this impression it would be that I rarely see a hard shoulder from him in close. He always appears more a wrestler than a hitter I guess.
This also applies to his running style with the ball.
He likes to jink just prior to contact rather than run straight and hard and blast through. Not saying it isn't effective sometimes (like the last game), but it appears he has the size and power to be a direct runner.I consider that a bonus. Plenty of people run hard into solid walls these days, taking steps into contact onto a soft shoulder can make it easier to get over the advantage line.
Our defence just makes the opposition look better than they really are. In fact I'd say we'd be amongst the easiest teams to make metres against in the middle of the field. Yet on our own line we show amazing intent, so that's a problem with the structure we employ.
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spaces not faces is a thing. Running very hard directly in to people is so 1990s
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spaces not faces is a thing. Running very hard directly in to people is so 1990s
@mariner4life plus if you run at the gap, it forces 2 players to make a decision.
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spaces not faces is a thing. Running very hard directly in to people is so 1990s
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@mariner4life I remember Mealamu being much praised for his pre-contact footwork.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life I remember Mealamu being much praised for his pre-contact footwork.
i stopped playing over a decade ago and all our coaching even then was around pre-contact footwork to find weak shoulders or get between players.
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Timing of the footwork is so important though. If you de-power to run at a shoulder then you aren't as dominant. Running hard with a change of direction timed to keep power through the tackle is great and a skill not enough of our players have.
I actually think this was something Foster even alluded to when he talked about small skills and why Strawbridge was brought in. It's the type of thing that Byrne used to be so good at instilling in our players. -
Timing of the footwork is so important though. If you de-power to run at a shoulder then you aren't as dominant. Running hard with a change of direction timed to keep power through the tackle is great and a skill not enough of our players have.
I actually think this was something Foster even alluded to when he talked about small skills and why Strawbridge was brought in. It's the type of thing that Byrne used to be so good at instilling in our players.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
Timing of the footwork is so important though. If you de-power to run at a shoulder then you aren't as dominant. Running hard with a change of direction timed to keep power through the tackle is great and a skill not enough of our players have.
I actually think this was something Foster even alluded to when he talked about small skills and why Strawbridge was brought in. It's the type of thing that Byrne used to be so good at instilling in our players.Ngani Laumape would be pretty good at that right about now.
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Timing of the footwork is so important though. If you de-power to run at a shoulder then you aren't as dominant. Running hard with a change of direction timed to keep power through the tackle is great and a skill not enough of our players have.
I actually think this was something Foster even alluded to when he talked about small skills and why Strawbridge was brought in. It's the type of thing that Byrne used to be so good at instilling in our players.@Crucial problem is, why are players getting to the elite level and not having these skills, or needing them refreshed?
As @mariner4life says, is something that is pretty basic, fast feet and timing of the step is important on attack as it is when going in to make a tackle, something you teach kids.
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I think Akira and Ardie’s play is part of the problem. So much of what they do seems so individual. They make a good run - where’s the support to take an offload or clean? They make a great tackle or hold up, where’s the support to drive over the tackle?
We see glimpses of it, all too rare from my viewing. Most of their individual good work becomes fruitless and just that - individual. For fans in the post mortem we point to stats and this and that on those individuals as part of a bunkering down exercise
For me what it boils down to is the trust within the group seems fractured from a playing perspective. I’m not talking about getting along and being best buds and all that, but respect for team mate and what they bring, understanding of their strengths and even their vulnerabilities. Knowing what they do in certain situations.
There was a passage where we had made a decent albeit a little disjointed phase play up and into our 22. After several phases (without an error) we fanned way too many players out on the left side of the field. Smith clears the ball and we have 4 guys all ready to take it. No decoy runner, just guys waiting to catch it. Cane received it and the defence was able to easily read it and we lost any momentum from the build up.
We’ve lost cohesion.
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@Crucial problem is, why are players getting to the elite level and not having these skills, or needing them refreshed?
As @mariner4life says, is something that is pretty basic, fast feet and timing of the step is important on attack as it is when going in to make a tackle, something you teach kids.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial problem is, why are players getting to the elite level and not having these skills, or needing them refreshed?
As @mariner4life says, is something that is pretty basic, fast feet and timing of the step is important on attack as it is when going in to make a tackle, something you teach kids.
I think you have partly answered your own question. Players that dominate through size/speed rather than technique (before the guns come out I am not targeting Ioane here) don't get coached in these aspects until the need becomes evident as the players understandably keep doing what works for them. The imbalances in our age grade rugby have to be rectified later.
This applies to lots of our game, especially 10s with great speed off the mark and footwork. They almost have to re;earn how to play at higher levels. -
I think Akira and Ardie’s play is part of the problem. So much of what they do seems so individual. They make a good run - where’s the support to take an offload or clean? They make a great tackle or hold up, where’s the support to drive over the tackle?
We see glimpses of it, all too rare from my viewing. Most of their individual good work becomes fruitless and just that - individual. For fans in the post mortem we point to stats and this and that on those individuals as part of a bunkering down exercise
For me what it boils down to is the trust within the group seems fractured from a playing perspective. I’m not talking about getting along and being best buds and all that, but respect for team mate and what they bring, understanding of their strengths and even their vulnerabilities. Knowing what they do in certain situations.
There was a passage where we had made a decent albeit a little disjointed phase play up and into our 22. After several phases (without an error) we fanned way too many players out on the left side of the field. Smith clears the ball and we have 4 guys all ready to take it. No decoy runner, just guys waiting to catch it. Cane received it and the defence was able to easily read it and we lost any momentum from the build up.
We’ve lost cohesion.
@ACT-Crusader that's a pretty good post you sensible bastard
Everything good is individual stuff. Ardie's two tries in the first. Reece's try in the first. Hell, all 3 tries in this test were guys taking it upon themselves to do something amazing.
Is there a sense that no one is willing to do the selfless thing to help the side? I look at Ardie knocking on a couple of times trying a frantic pick and go, rather than just sealing the ball and allowing play to develop elsewhere (he's not the only one, and i don't want to pick holes in a good game, but they were glaring examples of released pressure).
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@ACT-Crusader that's a pretty good post you sensible bastard
Everything good is individual stuff. Ardie's two tries in the first. Reece's try in the first. Hell, all 3 tries in this test were guys taking it upon themselves to do something amazing.
Is there a sense that no one is willing to do the selfless thing to help the side? I look at Ardie knocking on a couple of times trying a frantic pick and go, rather than just sealing the ball and allowing play to develop elsewhere (he's not the only one, and i don't want to pick holes in a good game, but they were glaring examples of released pressure).
@mariner4life some players are obviously feeling the pressure more than others. Senior players most likely.
I doubt Ardie reads the Fern, but if you do uso (that’s my Sonny Bill commentary for the day), you are a hell of an athlete and a smart footy player, but it doesn’t always have to be the big play! And how about a move to 2nd 5
