All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
G’day Danny, hoped you enjoyed the weekend in Wellington? I’m sure Mike has been moaning your ear off about how poor the ABs are
Any changes will depend on who is actually coaching and selecting the side I suppose.
De Groot, newell need to come in. I would rather have ramano than Patty T tbh and Cullen Grace needs to come into the mix.
Backs are largely the right group but potentially worth being McKenzie in.
Frankly, it’s probably immaterial what the squad looks like as I have lost all faith that our coaching group has the ability to create a strong side, with a coherent gameplan, that is capable of winning these games.
Take decisive action and change that now and we can start to look forward. As it stands, lots of people won’t even bother to watch it; live or on demand.
Actually Grubs, was a bloody great test to be at, probably one of the best humoured crowds I can remember being with for quite some time,. Mike was actually not to whiney, he like me though pissed at a few things thought the Irish were bloody good (I thought better than Lions team in 2017, just an opinion).
Romano wouldn't get looked at, realistically he's about 3 years to late, and probaly not able to handle pace of test rugby.
I not sure who is doing defence for ABs , but there is some work needs doing there, apart from that, I think we need a solid 6 who actually runs in close to breakdowns etc to carry ball forward (I reckon it will be either Barrett or Frizzel so much , but that type of carrier) for instance, though not saying Frizzel), as we need targets closer in to generate next phase ball, at moment Akira seems to range a bit wide. DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract. Anyway just about over the disappointment of first half, and looking forward to squad naming. No way they will change much in coaching before EOYT even if they want to as there simply no time to set anyone in.@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
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@Marty said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
Was outmatched by a chunk of frozen water
Yes but the All Blacks sank quicker.
(Oh crap, I nearly typed All Blanks).
add: Plus the Titanic had fire in the engine room (ok coal bunker). Oh to have that in the national team...
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coal-fire-may-have-helped-sink-titanic-180961699/@nostrildamus I think your Titanic metaphor has a lot of legs in it
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
Isn't Ta'avao only got one more game? If he did the traning thing it was reduced to 2 games, and pretty sure he may of been able to lose that in a Club game or something dodgy like that.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial Laulala and Ofa will survive with Ta'avao unavailable for the next 2 tests. Otherwise, you need 2 replacement THs.
Isn't Ta'avao only got one more game? If he did the traning thing it was reduced to 2 games, and pretty sure he may of been able to lose that in a Club game or something dodgy like that.
Yes, I think it can be reduced to 2 games, but it would be pointless to take him to SA if he is unavailable for the 1st test at least.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
Ok mate, I was under the impression that PT actually took a sabbatical as part of contract, and was still signed to Blues etc, where as DMac just let his contract lapse, why some thought maybe he would stay there and PT was always coming back. I know they still had to play when they got back,. No worries mate my mistake.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
Pretty doubtful DMac would get an exemption.
Patty did because we had three locks out and extremely short notice.
DMac's would be only because we think he's a better player and we're in the shit.
If I were a board member I wouldn't approve it.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
Ok mate, I was under the impression that PT actually took a sabbatical as part of contract, and was still signed to Blues etc, where as DMac just let his contract lapse, why some thought maybe he would stay there and PT was always coming back. I know they still had to play when they got back,. No worries mate my mistake.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
Ok mate, I was under the impression that PT actually took a sabbatical as part of contract, and was still signed to Blues etc, where as DMac just let his contract lapse, why some thought maybe he would stay there and PT was always coming back. I know they still had to play when they got back,. No worries mate my mistake.
This is entirely correct.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
DMac won't come in as he doesn't actually start his NZR contract until he plays NPC rugby I think, where as Pat T was on sabbatical and always under contract.
Not quite right. PT was in the same spot as DMac eligibility wise.
"At the All Blacks request, the New Zealand Rugby board has used its discretion to sign off Patrick Tuipulotu immediately joining the All Blacks squad as a replacement player after his return from a six month stint in Japan."
PT had played club rugby, as has DMac.
Pretty doubtful DMac would get an exemption.
Patty did because we had three locks out and extremely short notice.
DMac's would be only because we think he's a better player and we're in the shit.
If I were a board member I wouldn't approve it.
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@Chris-B Not sure DMac is the first person i'd call if ABs are looking to move away from frantic play!
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
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@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
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@Marty said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
Was outmatched by a chunk of frozen water
Yes but the All Blacks sank quicker.
(Oh crap, I nearly typed All Blanks).
add: Plus the Titanic had fire in the engine room (ok coal bunker). Oh to have that in the national team...
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coal-fire-may-have-helped-sink-titanic-180961699/@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Marty said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@sparky said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I wish I could get excited about this thread. Without a change in the coaching box, this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
If only we had the physicality of the Titanic..
Was outmatched by a chunk of frozen water
Yes but the All Blacks sank quicker.
(Oh crap, I nearly typed All Blanks).
add: Plus the Titanic had fire in the engine room (ok coal bunker). Oh to have that in the national team...
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/coal-fire-may-have-helped-sink-titanic-180961699/That story has a gaping hole in it. Like our early defence.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
36 in the squad, same as this series just gone. These are the changes we need to make through injury.
BBBR
LordThese are the other possibles
Tu’inukuafe
Laulala
PGS
Fainga’anuku
Perofeta
Clarke (is he going to come right?)So I see plenty of room for DMac to return. PT plus one other lock. One LH, one TH.
Maybe keep PGS and add Grace at the expense of a back.
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
We need more physicality in the forwards and organisation in the backs so bring in DMac?
Fine off the bench I guess but I don't see him rejuvenating the backline (but is he playing overseas at 10, and well? That could be useful. We don't have enough test 10s for the RWC).
Apart from midfield and an aimless 10, I don't think the backline is the problem..When did I say he would be the answer? I said he may be a better option to have than LF or may take Clarke's place is he isn't going to overcome his injury problems.
BTW DMac is actually a good organiser in the backs. Constantly points out positional needs to his fellow back three players.
I think that IF we can get cleaner ball and distribute it well a back three sometime during a game of JB, Jordan and DMac could be a good weapon to have.@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
36 in the squad, same as this series just gone. These are the changes we need to make through injury.
BBBR
LordThese are the other possibles
Tu’inukuafe
Laulala
PGS
Fainga’anuku
Perofeta
Clarke (is he going to come right?)So I see plenty of room for DMac to return. PT plus one other lock. One LH, one TH.
Maybe keep PGS and add Grace at the expense of a back.
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
We need more physicality in the forwards and organisation in the backs so bring in DMac?
Fine off the bench I guess but I don't see him rejuvenating the backline (but is he playing overseas at 10, and well? That could be useful. We don't have enough test 10s for the RWC).
Apart from midfield and an aimless 10, I don't think the backline is the problem..When did I say he would be the answer? I said he may be a better option to have than LF or may take Clarke's place is he isn't going to overcome his injury problems.
BTW DMac is actually a good organiser in the backs. Constantly points out positional needs to his fellow back three players.
I think that IF we can get cleaner ball and distribute it well a back three sometime during a game of JB, Jordan and DMac could be a good weapon to have.When did I say he would be the answer?
When did I say you said he was?
I wrote:We need more physicality in the forwards and organisation in the backs so bring in DMac?You wrote:
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
LF is goneburger (probably) so that isn't the issue.
No worse under the high ball than our taller guys? He's good but as good at 1.75-1.77 cm (websites differ) as 1.96m tall JB and 1.88m tall Will? They will target him at fb and he looked to have lost some speed.
At wing that is a problem and they will target him, not just his height but his mass, 80 kg if we are lucky (since he has been playing in Japan). So websites say JB is 96 kg or so but now he must be tipping 100kg, Jordan is 94kg.If he doesn't start he can't influence the ABs enough at wing or 15 as we can no longer catch up and retain good quality ball. The individual brilliant tries around halftime aren't the problem.
He has to be starting at wing or fb to organize*, but there I don't see him offering a point of difference there, he is simply no longer fast enough and the incumbents aren't a problem.
*I do see a situation where a kicker is injured but then he is really a backup 10.
Now at 10 he could be a backup. Perhaps he might even knock BB out of starting 10 (and then you don't need Jordie at 15 as there is a solid kicker at 10-Dmac or Richie). But he is basically a like for like with Richie except: Richie is experienced with the combos and DMac no longer is (I think).
So if he has come back as a better 10 and his speed hasn't been diminished drastically ok. But nowhere else.
I still think he would have made a great 9 in a French 9/10 fashion. Unpredictable (in a good way), useful boot, good passing, dancing feet against bigger but lumbering forwards, good hands, quick reflexes..
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@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B who partners Jack?
Fuck knows!!
They could play Jack at 2nd five and persist with Rieko at centre.
Otherwise I'd guess it will be Havili and Jack, with Rieko pushed to the left wing.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
36 in the squad, same as this series just gone. These are the changes we need to make through injury.
BBBR
LordThese are the other possibles
Tu’inukuafe
Laulala
PGS
Fainga’anuku
Perofeta
Clarke (is he going to come right?)So I see plenty of room for DMac to return. PT plus one other lock. One LH, one TH.
Maybe keep PGS and add Grace at the expense of a back.
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
We need more physicality in the forwards and organisation in the backs so bring in DMac?
Fine off the bench I guess but I don't see him rejuvenating the backline (but is he playing overseas at 10, and well? That could be useful. We don't have enough test 10s for the RWC).
Apart from midfield and an aimless 10, I don't think the backline is the problem..When did I say he would be the answer? I said he may be a better option to have than LF or may take Clarke's place is he isn't going to overcome his injury problems.
BTW DMac is actually a good organiser in the backs. Constantly points out positional needs to his fellow back three players.
I think that IF we can get cleaner ball and distribute it well a back three sometime during a game of JB, Jordan and DMac could be a good weapon to have.When did I say he would be the answer?
When did I say you said he was?
I wrote:We need more physicality in the forwards and organisation in the backs so bring in DMac?You wrote:
DMac can play wing and provide second FB duties. I know there is fear of him being kicked to but he's no worse under the high ball than our taller guys and would be a huge improvement on LF. This would also free JB up to hit the line from deep knowing DMac and Jordan are behind him.
LF is goneburger (probably) so that isn't the issue.
No worse under the high ball than our taller guys? He's good but as good at 1.75-1.77 cm (websites differ) as 1.96m tall JB and 1.88m tall Will? They will target him at fb and he looked to have lost some speed.
At wing that is a problem and they will target him, not just his height but his mass, 80 kg if we are lucky (since he has been playing in Japan). So websites say JB is 96 kg or so but now he must be tipping 100kg, Jordan is 94kg.If he doesn't start he can't influence the ABs enough at wing or 15 as we can no longer catch up and retain good quality ball. The individual brilliant tries around halftime aren't the problem.
He has to be starting at wing or fb to organize*, but there I don't see him offering a point of difference there, he is simply no longer fast enough and the incumbents aren't a problem.
*I do see a situation where a kicker is injured but then he is really a backup 10.
Now at 10 he could be a backup. Perhaps he might even knock BB out of starting 10 (and then you don't need Jordie at 15 as there is a solid kicker at 10-Dmac or Richie). But he is basically a like for like with Richie except: Richie is experienced with the combos and DMac no longer is (I think).
So if he has come back as a better 10 and his speed hasn't been diminished drastically ok. But nowhere else.
I still think he would have made a great 9 in a French 9/10 fashion. Unpredictable (in a good way), useful boot, good passing, dancing feet against bigger but lumbering forwards, good hands, quick reflexes..
@nostrildamus Not sure Big Leicester is gone and I don't think he should be.
In my view, he was largely picked as a project and they wouldn't have planned to use him in any role other than maybe off the bench in a dead test.
Anyone who's been watching him knows he's still making plenty of errors in Super rugby, but he's improving - so get him in the AB environment and develop him in the hope that by next year he'll be test ready. I don't think there's a compelling alternative.
Will Jordan is more like 100kgs these days and Jordie significantly heavier.
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@nostrildamus Not sure Big Leicester is gone and I don't think he should be.
In my view, he was largely picked as a project and they wouldn't have planned to use him in any role other than maybe off the bench in a dead test.
Anyone who's been watching him knows he's still making plenty of errors in Super rugby, but he's improving - so get him in the AB environment and develop him in the hope that by next year he'll be test ready. I don't think there's a compelling alternative.
Will Jordan is more like 100kgs these days and Jordie significantly heavier.
@Chris-B when watching Big Leicester Fainga'anuku for the crusaders I think I may have preferred him when he was centre.. mainly because it ment Bridge remained in the crusaders starting line up
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@Chris-B when watching Big Leicester Fainga'anuku for the crusaders I think I may have preferred him when he was centre.. mainly because it ment Bridge remained in the crusaders starting line up
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@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B who partners Jack?
Fuck knows!!
They could play Jack at 2nd five and persist with Rieko at centre.
Otherwise I'd guess it will be Havili and Jack, with Rieko pushed to the left wing.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
They could play Jack at 2nd five and persist with Rieko at centre.
given JG is generally a strong defender and organises well, this would be a pairing I'd like to see given a decent shot.
RTS has obvious upsides, with the main drawback in he still has plenty to learn about being back at rugby, which is tough at the top.
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@nostrildamus Not sure Big Leicester is gone and I don't think he should be.
In my view, he was largely picked as a project and they wouldn't have planned to use him in any role other than maybe off the bench in a dead test.
Anyone who's been watching him knows he's still making plenty of errors in Super rugby, but he's improving - so get him in the AB environment and develop him in the hope that by next year he'll be test ready. I don't think there's a compelling alternative.
Will Jordan is more like 100kgs these days and Jordie significantly heavier.
@Chris-B you are right, I was too hasty.
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@FakatavaAllBlack Not for me.
He may end up there, because he's not overly fast for a wing, but centre is a tricky position and I reckon Big Leicester would get cut to pieces at the moment.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@FakatavaAllBlack Not for me.
He may end up there, because he's not overly fast for a wing, but centre is a tricky position and I reckon Big Leicester would get cut to pieces at the moment.
so you are saying he may be a centre in a few years? As he is a big guy and I don't see him getting faster on the wing.
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@FakatavaAllBlack
We have some real talent coming through at prop. All fairly young though and ideally would be given a bit more time to learn and grow.
Ideally we would send one or two to Europe for a season to accelerate their readiness but we would lose control of them if we that was possible.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Ideally we would send one or two to Europe for a season to accelerate their readiness but we would lose control of them if we that was possible.
We should have bought a club over there a while ago to blood players in the offseason. I can't see it happening for many reasons, not least of which NZR seem convinced that Super NZ is the pinnacle and all other competitions suck. Our insularity hurts us; playing SA AUS and others helps deal with different game plans, and how to travel and win. I think we'll miss them in the medium term (and it's hurting us already)
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@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
One of the commentators on SENZ (could have been TJ) was saying that Goodhue's other knee is starting to give him problems now and he wasn't fit for the 3rd test.
