Foster, Robertson etc
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well this is all going swimmingly
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
well this is all going swimmingly
We are a rabble on and off the field right now
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Doesn't sound like Razor is ruling it out to me.
Scott Robertson hears the noise, but has nothing to say regarding the coaching saga enveloping the All Blacks. Back at the Crusaders’ Rugby Park headquarters in Christchurch after a taking a break in Fiji, he made that abundantly clear on Tuesday when contacted. His “no comment” shouldn’t come as a surprise, and was the same response he gave when questioned on the All Blacks’ struggles at the conclusion of last year’s northern tour. -
Doesn't sound like Razor is ruling it out to me.
Scott Robertson hears the noise, but has nothing to say regarding the coaching saga enveloping the All Blacks. Back at the Crusaders’ Rugby Park headquarters in Christchurch after a taking a break in Fiji, he made that abundantly clear on Tuesday when contacted. His “no comment” shouldn’t come as a surprise, and was the same response he gave when questioned on the All Blacks’ struggles at the conclusion of last year’s northern tour.@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
Doesn't sound like Razor is ruling it out to me.
Scott Robertson hears the noise, but has nothing to say regarding the coaching saga enveloping the All Blacks. Back at the Crusaders’ Rugby Park headquarters in Christchurch after a taking a break in Fiji, he made that abundantly clear on Tuesday when contacted. His “no comment” shouldn’t come as a surprise, and was the same response he gave when questioned on the All Blacks’ struggles at the conclusion of last year’s northern tour.Smart move. No matter what he says it will be manipulated to suit whatever agenda someone is pushing.
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Looks like we closed the Tauranga borders on @mariner4life for too long. First he writes heresy about Sam Cane, now he's running a defense for Ian Foster... :astonished_face:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
Looks like we closed the Tauranga borders on @mariner4life for too long. First he writes heresy about Sam Cane, now he's running a defense for Ian Foster... :astonished_face:
nah, i look at the first part positively, that he was just suggesting Sam Cane focus on BoP
second part was clearly out of line! -
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@KiwiMurph I'm not going to read the article (the TSF way) but is that Joe Locke?
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there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
While some All Black teams dominated what I remember is that we mostly used to win even when we were evenly matched with opposition, because we were good at pressure rugby. Playing the %. Kicking to corners, winning a turnover or a line out when it mattered. Mostly just hard fought games with less than a one try margin. I don’t see that hard nosed attitude in our team or tactics. We don’t do the grind anymore - reverting to the box kick or heaven forbid the cross kick all the time. Some of its tactics and some I think is hard coded into players. For me Foster has to go because he won’t make the number of changes now required. Dropping some name players, selecting specialists, stop selecting projects, changing tactics. We haven’t had a forward pack that has dominated its opposition for years. Time to face reality.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster must go:
People getting triggered by the fat jokes is absolutely pathetic.
Who is triggered? I said the jokes were tired. And they were.
Maybe someone is triggered by the thought of someone being triggered?
It's not as funny as the people that keep making those jokes think it is.
People using the term triggered unironically are what is pathetic.
@Kirwan said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster must go:
People getting triggered by the fat jokes is absolutely pathetic.
Who is triggered? I said the jokes were tired. And they were.
Maybe someone is triggered by the thought of someone being triggered?
It's not as funny as the people that keep making those jokes think it is.
People using the term triggered unironically are what is pathetic.
I'm not sure there's such a thing as using the term "triggered" unironically.
It's just a question of whether the irony is intentional or not. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Catogrande said in Foster must go:
@TheMojoman said in Foster must go:
Foster by the numbers - https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300639756/the-charts-that-put-ian-fosters-all-blacks-coaching-record-in-sharp-perspective
Looking at those stats, you have to feel a bit sorry for the flak that Vodanovich is getting on here. 40% of his tests were against a very good Lions side I think.
He wasn't rated by the players from what I've read. According to them, his idea of coaching was to simply train the team to exhaustion and hope for the best tactics-wise on the day. Zero innovation.
There was a huge exodus of experienced players from the AB's after the 1970 tour and some have given him as the reason. IIRC Chris Laidlaw was particularly scathing.
McLean said something along the lines that he took away a rugby team and came back with a team of cross country runners.
The one that is quite interesting to me is JJ Stewart, who was very highly regarded.
The team he took to SA played some good rugby, but a major stumbling point was not having a decent goalkicker who could make the test side (Lozza was that man). We ended up using Sid Going and Bryan Williams and they were terrible - my memory says way below 50 percent.
It was only at that point in our rugby history that we learned (almost conclusively) that a good goalkicker is a necessity. We've occasionally flirted with substandard ones since.
@Chris-B said in Foster must go:
McLean said something along the lines that he took away a rugby team and came back with a team of cross country runners.
What I'd give for a rugby journalist of his calibre today.
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@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and Aki@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and AkiThey played well because they benefitted from an actual game plan. Look at the Irish move we were debating last week where Aki got the ball just outside the dummy runners shoulder and was immediately put into acres of space. Can you imagine Rieko receiving ball like that on a regular basis? He'd carve teams to shreds.
Look, I get what you are saying, we've had some fucking all time great teams in recent history with GOATs across the park. Our current lot don't compare to that, but they are nowhere near as bad as what we are seeing right now. We should have been easily good enough to put Ireland away given they were at the end of a very long season. We should actually be good enough to win most of our games, but we have become easy beats to the other Tier 1 teams as they know all they have to do is play with a bit structure and we'll end up making a host of errors trying to pull shit out of the bag.
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@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and AkiThey played well because they benefitted from an actual game plan. Look at the Irish move we were debating last week where Aki got the ball just outside the dummy runners shoulder and was immediately put into acres of space. Can you imagine Rieko receiving ball like that on a regular basis? He'd carve teams to shreds.
Look, I get what you are saying, we've had some fucking all time great teams in recent history with GOATs across the park. Our current lot don't compare to that, but they are nowhere near as bad as what we are seeing right now. We should have been easily good enough to put Ireland away given they were at the end of a very long season. We should actually be good enough to win most of our games, but we have become easy beats to the other Tier 1 teams as they know all they have to do is play with a bit structure and we'll end up making a host of errors trying to pull shit out of the bag.
@No-Quarter I haven't gone back and looked, but it seemed a not dissimilar set up to the one where Beaudy shot out of the line trying for the intercept - this time Sexton threw the shorter ball to Aki (rather than behind) and left Beaudy stranded and looking like a fluffybunny.
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@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
Looks like we closed the Tauranga borders on @mariner4life for too long. First he writes heresy about Sam Cane, now he's running a defense for Ian Foster... :astonished_face:
nah, i look at the first part positively, that he was just suggesting Sam Cane focus on BoP
second part was clearly out of line!@bayimports said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
Looks like we closed the Tauranga borders on @mariner4life for too long. First he writes heresy about Sam Cane, now he's running a defense for Ian Foster... :astonished_face:
nah, i look at the first part positively, that he was just suggesting Sam Cane focus on BoP
second part was clearly out of line!BoP Mafia discipline is clearly getting slack in our middle age. At this alarming rate of decline, @mariner4life will probably start calling for more Magpies in the All Blacks by Thursday, and will be talking up Duane Monkley by the weekend.
A meeting with HoriBoP is scheduled...
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@bayimports said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
Looks like we closed the Tauranga borders on @mariner4life for too long. First he writes heresy about Sam Cane, now he's running a defense for Ian Foster... :astonished_face:
nah, i look at the first part positively, that he was just suggesting Sam Cane focus on BoP
second part was clearly out of line!BoP Mafia discipline is clearly getting slack in our middle age. At this alarming rate of decline, @mariner4life will probably start calling for more Magpies in the All Blacks by Thursday, and will be talking up Duane Monkley by the weekend.
A meeting with HoriBoP is scheduled...
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
@bayimports said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
Looks like we closed the Tauranga borders on @mariner4life for too long. First he writes heresy about Sam Cane, now he's running a defense for Ian Foster... :astonished_face:
nah, i look at the first part positively, that he was just suggesting Sam Cane focus on BoP
second part was clearly out of line!BoP Mafia discipline is clearly getting slack in our middle age. At this alarming rate of decline, @mariner4life will probably start calling for more Magpies in the All Blacks by Thursday, and will be talking up Duane Monkley by the weekend.
A meeting with HoriBoP is scheduled...
Who's this Wayne Ormond guy anyway?
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@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
@bayimports said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
Looks like we closed the Tauranga borders on @mariner4life for too long. First he writes heresy about Sam Cane, now he's running a defense for Ian Foster... :astonished_face:
nah, i look at the first part positively, that he was just suggesting Sam Cane focus on BoP
second part was clearly out of line!BoP Mafia discipline is clearly getting slack in our middle age. At this alarming rate of decline, @mariner4life will probably start calling for more Magpies in the All Blacks by Thursday, and will be talking up Duane Monkley by the weekend.
A meeting with HoriBoP is scheduled...
Who's this Wayne Ormond guy anyway?
@Bones said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
@bayimports said in Foster must go:
@Donsteppa said in Foster must go:
Looks like we closed the Tauranga borders on @mariner4life for too long. First he writes heresy about Sam Cane, now he's running a defense for Ian Foster... :astonished_face:
nah, i look at the first part positively, that he was just suggesting Sam Cane focus on BoP
second part was clearly out of line!BoP Mafia discipline is clearly getting slack in our middle age. At this alarming rate of decline, @mariner4life will probably start calling for more Magpies in the All Blacks by Thursday, and will be talking up Duane Monkley by the weekend.
A meeting with HoriBoP is scheduled...
Who's this Wayne Ormond guy anyway?
i will absolutely cut a bitch
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@Bovidae said in Foster must go:
One other thing mentioned by Newshub was that Foster is well liked and respected by the players. Perhaps he has some credit in the bank as an assistant coach that won a RWC. This wasn't true of some of the current assistant coaches.
But in the end, the head coach is responsible for the overall plan and vision so if the assistant coaches aren't up to it they need to be replaced. AB coaches don't have a history of going all-Eddie Jones though.
That was one of the key 'pros' to his appointment wasn't it. The players said that he was very good and that they respected him.
It just seems that this next step up is a step too far and what works for him as an assistant doesn't as a head@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Bovidae said in Foster must go:
One other thing mentioned by Newshub was that Foster is well liked and respected by the players. Perhaps he has some credit in the bank as an assistant coach that won a RWC. This wasn't true of some of the current assistant coaches.
But in the end, the head coach is responsible for the overall plan and vision so if the assistant coaches aren't up to it they need to be replaced. AB coaches don't have a history of going all-Eddie Jones though.
That was one of the key 'pros' to his appointment wasn't it. The players said that he was very good and that they respected him.
It just seems that this next step up is a step too far and what works for him as an assistant doesn't as a headClassic case of an exceptional No. 2 & key to overall success, who isn't a No.1 perhaps.
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What wrong with our ex-coaches, ex-players?
They just know more than us??? too conservative????? conflicts of interest????? or just plain soft in the head???????
Laurie Mains - “I have a great deal of sympathy for Ian Foster, he’s been a long-term servant to rugby and I’m sure he’s always done his best, and I’m not about to join the crucifixion party.’’
Grizz - “Changing coaches now probably isn’t going to happen at this stage,’’ he said. “If there’s a new coach in does he want to pick new players? All that’s going to do is create more uncertainty [for the players].”
Kirkpatrick - Kirkpatrick agreed a coaching change now could be disruptive, but he would like to see Schmidt’s talents fully utilised.
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What wrong with our ex-coaches, ex-players?
They just know more than us??? too conservative????? conflicts of interest????? or just plain soft in the head???????
Laurie Mains - “I have a great deal of sympathy for Ian Foster, he’s been a long-term servant to rugby and I’m sure he’s always done his best, and I’m not about to join the crucifixion party.’’
Grizz - “Changing coaches now probably isn’t going to happen at this stage,’’ he said. “If there’s a new coach in does he want to pick new players? All that’s going to do is create more uncertainty [for the players].”
Kirkpatrick - Kirkpatrick agreed a coaching change now could be disruptive, but he would like to see Schmidt’s talents fully utilised.
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@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and Aki@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
@Frye said in Foster must go:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go:
there is the old saying that goes something like "what makes great coaches? Great players"
Maybe, if we step back and take the black glasses off, this isn't all Ian's fault. Maybe, just maybe, NZ players aren't very good any more.
Our front row players range from adequate to definitely substandard (with one possible, but as yet unproven) exception
Our 2nd rowers are putting in a shift, but do they actually contribute anything meaningful?
In the loose forwards, on the weekend perhaps our 6 & 8 had points wins over their opposite (7 clearly did not) but that is only if you ignore the fact we lost the ruck battle, and the tackle battle.
Our halfback can't kick with accuracy or depth.
there is no 10 in the country who can calmly run a game, or kick well from hand.
We don't appear to have a 12 anywhere, though playing 12 outside our erratic and unpredictable 10s must be a fucking nightmare
Our 13 is a converted winger with limitless potential but still several key questionmarks
Win seems okay
Our fullback is good under the high ball, but not much good at anything else, and loves a poor optionAnd a big issue is, who do you swap these guys out for? No one else is bashing the door down.
I'm just throwing it out there, maybe, just maybe, we lose to Ireland because they have better players than us now. And we, the NZ rugby fan, refuse to believe it because it has never been so.
You could be just as equally critical of any countries depth chart. If you choose to believe Keith Earls would be the first backline player picked for the All Blacks for example, then you are certainly welcome to that opinion.
nah yeah you're right all our players are heaps awesome and it's one dude's fault entirely
Earls isn't even first choice for Ireland so good name to throw in there
Hard to make a case that the 3 best midfielders on show over the past 3 weekends weren't Ringrose, Henshaw and AkiWe've done the depth and talent issues to death since 2015. No one believes that we continue to have the best 1st and 2nd XVs in World Rugby and no one has believed that in a very long time. This is as far as I'm concerned a separate and not super relevant issue to what's being discussed here. In fact, the lack of depth and talent is all the more reason why the coaching issue is so important - when you don't have the natural talent across the park and country to dominate by that alone, your coaching needs to be top notch so that you can squeeze as much juice as possible out of the lemons you have at your disposal.
Fozzie has had a fair squeeze and now it's someone else's turn. No matter what you may think about the depth and quality of our lemons, there's clearly more juice in there than Fozzie has gotten out of them.
