The Current State of Rugby
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Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
Btw, for those who are trolling and wish to point out our ‘inconsistency’, I don’t have an actual problem with that being a YC, I have a problem with the fact that Ta’avao got a RC and three weeks for something more akin to a rugby collision !
I genuinely hope that the World Cup final changes because of a call like this, so that World a rugby can be shown up as the bunch of useless fluffybunnies they clearly are.
@gt12 said in The Current State of Rugby:
Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
NZR is still waiting for a "please explain" and an apology from the 3rd BIL test aren't they? WR never admit their mistakes.
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League allows a red carded player to be instantly subbed… apparently….makes sense. Also it would also be a good thing if each side had three requests to have an incident reviewed like tennis.
@POV said in The Current State of Rugby:
League allows a red carded player to be instantly subbed… apparently….makes sense. Also it would also be a good thing if each side had three requests to have an incident reviewed like tennis.
Why three?
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Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
Btw, for those who are trolling and wish to point out our ‘inconsistency’, I don’t have an actual problem with that being a YC, I have a problem with the fact that Ta’avao got a RC and three weeks for something more akin to a rugby collision !
I genuinely hope that the World Cup final changes because of a call like this, so that World a rugby can be shown up as the bunch of useless fluffybunnies they clearly are.
@gt12 said in The Current State of Rugby:
Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
Btw, for those who are trolling and wish to point out our ‘inconsistency’, I don’t have an actual problem with that being a YC, I have a problem with the fact that Ta’avao got a RC and three weeks for something more akin to a rugby collision !
I genuinely hope that the World Cup final changes because of a call like this, so that World a rugby can be shown up as the bunch of useless fluffybunnies they clearly are.
The argument, not that I agree with it, is the difference between Ta'avao running and Porter basically standing still. WR clearly don't care about head contact because Porter's tackle obviously caused damage. It's a farce.
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@gt12 said in The Current State of Rugby:
Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
NZR is still waiting for a "please explain" and an apology from the 3rd BIL test aren't they? WR never admit their mistakes.
@Bovidae said in The Current State of Rugby:
@gt12 said in The Current State of Rugby:
Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
NZR is still waiting for a "please explain" and an apology from the 3rd BIL test aren't they? WR never admit their mistakes.
In any decently run sporting organisation, Poite would've been sacked and investigated for corruption.
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@gt12 said in The Current State of Rugby:
Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
Btw, for those who are trolling and wish to point out our ‘inconsistency’, I don’t have an actual problem with that being a YC, I have a problem with the fact that Ta’avao got a RC and three weeks for something more akin to a rugby collision !
I genuinely hope that the World Cup final changes because of a call like this, so that World a rugby can be shown up as the bunch of useless fluffybunnies they clearly are.
The argument, not that I agree with it, is the difference between Ta'avao running and Porter basically standing still. WR clearly don't care about head contact because Porter's tackle obviously caused damage. It's a farce.
@antipodean said in The Current State of Rugby:
@gt12 said in The Current State of Rugby:
Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
Btw, for those who are trolling and wish to point out our ‘inconsistency’, I don’t have an actual problem with that being a YC, I have a problem with the fact that Ta’avao got a RC and three weeks for something more akin to a rugby collision !
I genuinely hope that the World Cup final changes because of a call like this, so that World a rugby can be shown up as the bunch of useless fluffybunnies they clearly are.
The argument, not that I agree with it, is the difference between Ta'avao running and Porter basically standing still. WR clearly don't care about head contact because Porter's tackle obviously caused damage. It's a farce.
and he basically took one step
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@gt12 said in The Current State of Rugby:
Did the NZRU appeal the decision? If we had any balls, we’d be screaming blue murder.
Btw, for those who are trolling and wish to point out our ‘inconsistency’, I don’t have an actual problem with that being a YC, I have a problem with the fact that Ta’avao got a RC and three weeks for something more akin to a rugby collision !
I genuinely hope that the World Cup final changes because of a call like this, so that World a rugby can be shown up as the bunch of useless fluffybunnies they clearly are.
The argument, not that I agree with it, is the difference between Ta'avao running and Porter basically standing still. WR clearly don't care about head contact because Porter's tackle obviously caused damage. It's a farce.
@antipodean Porter straightened (natural instinct to protect oneself, I expect this probably is stronger than ones ninja reflexes) to brace for the impact, which was probably the worst part as it raised his head into Brodies.
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@antipodean Porter straightened (natural instinct to protect oneself, I expect this probably is stronger than ones ninja reflexes) to brace for the impact, which was probably the worst part as it raised his head into Brodies.
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@antipodean Porter straightened (natural instinct to protect oneself, I expect this probably is stronger than ones ninja reflexes) to brace for the impact, which was probably the worst part as it raised his head into Brodies.
Porter: 183cm
Brodie: 204cm
Impact: just below his right eye I believe (saw it on tv/video now can't find a photo).
https://www.the42.ie/andrew-porter-brodie-retallick-citing-dismissed-5821030-Jul2022/
Sure Brodie wasn't full height but neither were and that's a 21cm height difference. -
@taniwharugby said in The Current State of Rugby:
@antipodean Porter straightened (natural instinct to protect oneself, I expect this probably is stronger than ones ninja reflexes) to brace for the impact, which was probably the worst part as it raised his head into Brodies.
Porter: 183cm
Brodie: 204cm
Impact: just below his right eye I believe (saw it on tv/video now can't find a photo).
https://www.the42.ie/andrew-porter-brodie-retallick-citing-dismissed-5821030-Jul2022/
Sure Brodie wasn't full height but neither were and that's a 21cm height difference.@nostrildamus It's a fucking joke. He had 5m of clear visibility to line him up and tackle him low. He decided to go high. Ta'avao didn't have time to make a decision, didn't have time to drop.
What's the precedent? As long as you're not moving forward you can line up an attackers head with your own? -
Maybe WR contracted refs for internationals. What they also need is a citing panel for the entire world, say 7 people who do it all, as a full time or retirement job. Cos that's even more inconsistant without the excuse of time pressure. Every citing is online to make it equal for all, with the same core people
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Having watched Lindsay Collins knock himself out for the 2nd time in two games I have had another 180
Something has to be done to protect these guys from themselves
My problem is I don't know what that something is. What we are doing is not working. Maybe the answer is as @MiketheSnow says, ignore fans and media and ex-player Neanderthals like yours truly and have every head contact as red. No soak tackles, no incidental contact, no mitigation. Red card and 3 week suspension. We need to get rid of the current defence where its aimed at getting up as fast as possible winning space and collision, because that's where issues start. We need defenders to slow the fuck down, and get lower.
My problem is, this doesn't solve the problem. Repeated little hits are a bigger issue. And that's the breakdown. And training. Over a long career most of my issues come from breakdown hits.
Maybe, just maybe, the rugby codes don't have a future because I can't see a safe way forward.
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Having watched Lindsay Collins knock himself out for the 2nd time in two games I have had another 180
Something has to be done to protect these guys from themselves
My problem is I don't know what that something is. What we are doing is not working. Maybe the answer is as @MiketheSnow says, ignore fans and media and ex-player Neanderthals like yours truly and have every head contact as red. No soak tackles, no incidental contact, no mitigation. Red card and 3 week suspension. We need to get rid of the current defence where its aimed at getting up as fast as possible winning space and collision, because that's where issues start. We need defenders to slow the fuck down, and get lower.
My problem is, this doesn't solve the problem. Repeated little hits are a bigger issue. And that's the breakdown. And training. Over a long career most of my issues come from breakdown hits.
Maybe, just maybe, the rugby codes don't have a future because I can't see a safe way forward.
@mariner4life not sure what golden oldies rules are universal but I reckon some of these could be taken into the real game which would take some of the physicality out.
From a penalty no quick tap
Players can kick the ball only in their own 22.
In line-outs all 8 forwards must take part
Once ball to deck, it is won, no contesting
Chest tackles are free kick (think they played this in North Harbour and some Auckland 1st 15)
Shoulder is auto YC
For me, accidental head contact is YC, but that player cannot returnSure some shit and unrecognisable from the game we loved, but where to, really?
Pick them apart!
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Having watched Lindsay Collins knock himself out for the 2nd time in two games I have had another 180
Something has to be done to protect these guys from themselves
My problem is I don't know what that something is. What we are doing is not working. Maybe the answer is as @MiketheSnow says, ignore fans and media and ex-player Neanderthals like yours truly and have every head contact as red. No soak tackles, no incidental contact, no mitigation. Red card and 3 week suspension. We need to get rid of the current defence where its aimed at getting up as fast as possible winning space and collision, because that's where issues start. We need defenders to slow the fuck down, and get lower.
My problem is, this doesn't solve the problem. Repeated little hits are a bigger issue. And that's the breakdown. And training. Over a long career most of my issues come from breakdown hits.
Maybe, just maybe, the rugby codes don't have a future because I can't see a safe way forward.
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
Maybe, just maybe, the rugby codes don't have a future because I can't see a safe way forward
Hope not but too many ex rugby players suffering serious long term damage and who knows where it could go
How many head knocks has Ratallick had now. Yet Porter wasn't red carded. I can understand the reason given but unsure if I agree with it. My view is this example should have been a red card. But reduce the card to 20 minutes and a red carded player has an automatic stand down period
But I stopped playing at 20. And only had one bad head knock in my playing days. And played at a level that was nothing compared to test or top level rugby today.
I
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@mariner4life not sure what golden oldies rules are universal but I reckon some of these could be taken into the real game which would take some of the physicality out.
From a penalty no quick tap
Players can kick the ball only in their own 22.
In line-outs all 8 forwards must take part
Once ball to deck, it is won, no contesting
Chest tackles are free kick (think they played this in North Harbour and some Auckland 1st 15)
Shoulder is auto YC
For me, accidental head contact is YC, but that player cannot returnSure some shit and unrecognisable from the game we loved, but where to, really?
Pick them apart!
@taniwharugby is this a product that anyone will watch?
And is this a game for all shapes and sizes?
Fuck trying to solve this issue
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@taniwharugby is this a product that anyone will watch?
And is this a game for all shapes and sizes?
Fuck trying to solve this issue
@mariner4life who knows, just throwing some ideas
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@taniwharugby is this a product that anyone will watch?
And is this a game for all shapes and sizes?
Fuck trying to solve this issue
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby is this a product that anyone will watch?
And is this a game for all shapes and sizes?
Fuck trying to solve this issue
I think you have to go back to fundamentals. For me the game is about the contest - in the air, at set piece, and particularly at the breakdown. The challenge is to find a way to encourage the contest, reward skill/strenght, without taking out the physicality that makes it worthwhile.
Sevens is the rugby backlines without the forward confrontation ,and it's cotton candy to watch. Nice for a few games, but I can't watch much of it.
To solve the problem, you have to figure out the issues you need to rectify, and the fundamentals you're trying to protect. I've outlined some fundamentals above.
Key head contact issues seem to be primarily the tackle (both tackler and carrier), and cleanouts at the breakdown area.
To me, you start to hit these in a couple of ways. One is to speed up the game, get the ball in play more ,and reward fitter, smaller players who aren't carrying the muscle. The second is to reset the breakdown, to find a way to avoid people coming in shoulder first to clean out jacklers. Maybe it's a 'wrestling' type activity at the ruck, rather than a physical cleanout. You could remove the contest for the ball - but that takes away some of what makes rugby special.
Evidence of how broken our laws are at the moment is the lack of competition at the breakdonw - choke tackles exist because getting the ball on teh ground almost inevitably results in the attacking side retaining possession. Hell, maybe it's going back to counter rucking - fight for the airspace above the ball - but by pushing/wrestling, rather than picking up the ball (no hands by anyone but the halfback?)
Bottom line is ya got to do something. The current mess isn't watchable;
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby is this a product that anyone will watch?
And is this a game for all shapes and sizes?
Fuck trying to solve this issue
I think you have to go back to fundamentals. For me the game is about the contest - in the air, at set piece, and particularly at the breakdown. The challenge is to find a way to encourage the contest, reward skill/strenght, without taking out the physicality that makes it worthwhile.
Sevens is the rugby backlines without the forward confrontation ,and it's cotton candy to watch. Nice for a few games, but I can't watch much of it.
To solve the problem, you have to figure out the issues you need to rectify, and the fundamentals you're trying to protect. I've outlined some fundamentals above.
Key head contact issues seem to be primarily the tackle (both tackler and carrier), and cleanouts at the breakdown area.
To me, you start to hit these in a couple of ways. One is to speed up the game, get the ball in play more ,and reward fitter, smaller players who aren't carrying the muscle. The second is to reset the breakdown, to find a way to avoid people coming in shoulder first to clean out jacklers. Maybe it's a 'wrestling' type activity at the ruck, rather than a physical cleanout. You could remove the contest for the ball - but that takes away some of what makes rugby special.
Evidence of how broken our laws are at the moment is the lack of competition at the breakdonw - choke tackles exist because getting the ball on teh ground almost inevitably results in the attacking side retaining possession. Hell, maybe it's going back to counter rucking - fight for the airspace above the ball - but by pushing/wrestling, rather than picking up the ball (no hands by anyone but the halfback?)
Bottom line is ya got to do something. The current mess isn't watchable;
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It's an old chestnut, and I can't imagine they would ever bring it back, but allowing rucking and banning the clean out would reduce a lot on injuries, including head injuries.
Edit - just noticed @Crucial beat me to it
@Crazy-Horse said in The Current State of Rugby:
It's an old chestnut, and I can't imagine they would ever bring it back, but allowing rucking and banning the clean out would reduce a lot on injuries, including head injuries.
Edit - just noticed @Crucial beat me to it
Just apply the laws that exist. Stay on feet, bind properly not after your shoulder hits. Head/shoulders above hips. No tackle at breakdown…..
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@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby is this a product that anyone will watch?
And is this a game for all shapes and sizes?
Fuck trying to solve this issue
I think you have to go back to fundamentals. For me the game is about the contest - in the air, at set piece, and particularly at the breakdown. The challenge is to find a way to encourage the contest, reward skill/strenght, without taking out the physicality that makes it worthwhile.
Sevens is the rugby backlines without the forward confrontation ,and it's cotton candy to watch. Nice for a few games, but I can't watch much of it.
To solve the problem, you have to figure out the issues you need to rectify, and the fundamentals you're trying to protect. I've outlined some fundamentals above.
Key head contact issues seem to be primarily the tackle (both tackler and carrier), and cleanouts at the breakdown area.
To me, you start to hit these in a couple of ways. One is to speed up the game, get the ball in play more ,and reward fitter, smaller players who aren't carrying the muscle. The second is to reset the breakdown, to find a way to avoid people coming in shoulder first to clean out jacklers. Maybe it's a 'wrestling' type activity at the ruck, rather than a physical cleanout. You could remove the contest for the ball - but that takes away some of what makes rugby special.
Evidence of how broken our laws are at the moment is the lack of competition at the breakdonw - choke tackles exist because getting the ball on teh ground almost inevitably results in the attacking side retaining possession. Hell, maybe it's going back to counter rucking - fight for the airspace above the ball - but by pushing/wrestling, rather than picking up the ball (no hands by anyone but the halfback?)
Bottom line is ya got to do something. The current mess isn't watchable;
@nzzp said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
@taniwharugby is this a product that anyone will watch?
And is this a game for all shapes and sizes?
Fuck trying to solve this issue
I think you have to go back to fundamentals. For me the game is about the contest - in the air, at set piece, and particularly at the breakdown. The challenge is to find a way to encourage the contest, reward skill/strenght, without taking out the physicality that makes it worthwhile.
Sevens is the rugby backlines without the forward confrontation ,and it's cotton candy to watch. Nice for a few games, but I can't watch much of it.
To solve the problem, you have to figure out the issues you need to rectify, and the fundamentals you're trying to protect. I've outlined some fundamentals above.
Key head contact issues seem to be primarily the tackle (both tackler and carrier), and cleanouts at the breakdown area.
To me, you start to hit these in a couple of ways. One is to speed up the game, get the ball in play more ,and reward fitter, smaller players who aren't carrying the muscle. The second is to reset the breakdown, to find a way to avoid people coming in shoulder first to clean out jacklers. Maybe it's a 'wrestling' type activity at the ruck, rather than a physical cleanout. You could remove the contest for the ball - but that takes away some of what makes rugby special.
Evidence of how broken our laws are at the moment is the lack of competition at the breakdonw - choke tackles exist because getting the ball on teh ground almost inevitably results in the attacking side retaining possession. Hell, maybe it's going back to counter rucking - fight for the airspace above the ball - but by pushing/wrestling, rather than picking up the ball (no hands by anyone but the halfback?)
Bottom line is ya got to do something. The current mess isn't watchable;
This would solve not just the head issues IMO but also the space issues - turn the ruck into a pushing contest and you encourage more players to participate in thy contest and thereby open up space in other parts of the field
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Article by Charlie Morgan. I presume was originally a Telegraph article? He writes for them.
Gist is differing viewpoints in the hemispheres.
I didn't watch Origin, not my bag, so cant really comment. Not sure if it is a strawman argument or valid.
I dont watch MMA or boxing, I dont actually like watching people get knocked out. I dont fit into any sort of demographic Morgan is implying with the Origin allusion. I want a sport where people dont knock each other out, prepared to accept changes (likely less radical than 1992). I just don't see blanket reds as being that solution. Guess it comes down to litigation risks, though.
Back 4 years ago after watching my $100 test ticket become worthless after 10 minutes after some unco Frenchman tipped Beauden on his head. I came to the conclusion I would dis-engage with the sport until they sort out and adjust to a new equilibrium, it's been 4 years. Hurry up.
