Foster, Robertson etc
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@No-Quarter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I think right now our best candidate is Schmidt, he has the test experience and a fantastic record. I'd love it if Robertson would work with him in an assistant role, with the goal of taking over the reigns down the track if all goes well.
That is exactly what the sauce is saying will happen. Let's hope so.
@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@No-Quarter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I think right now our best candidate is Schmidt, he has the test experience and a fantastic record. I'd love it if Robertson would work with him in an assistant role, with the goal of taking over the reigns down the track if all goes well.
That is exactly what the sauce is saying will happen. Let's hope so.
Who's your sauce? chchrugbyfan?
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@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
Foster's succession was unjustified. We didn't have the 2019 RWC win to springboard him in, it was essentially a closed race as evidenced by other top candidates not even bothering to apply
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
partially a product of the reasonably closed shop NZR have run since '03. NZ has limited coaching slots; 5 Super gigs, that just aren't well paid.
@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
partially a product of the reasonably closed shop NZR have run since '03. NZ has limited coaching slots; 5 Super gigs, that just aren't well paid.
We have also pushed a lot of good coaches offshore due to the "requirement" for the AB head coach to have had overseas coaching experience.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
partially a product of the reasonably closed shop NZR have run since '03. NZ has limited coaching slots; 5 Super gigs, that just aren't well paid.
@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew all well and good to have a succession plan in place but if you can’t identify good coaches and the old boy network prevails you end up with Foster. So you’re right it is more than Foster although he is useless.
Not just identify, but develop and ensure availability.
I wouldn’t be holding to that given the way coaches move to all parts of the world for opportunities and different life experiences.
partially a product of the reasonably closed shop NZR have run since '03. NZ has limited coaching slots; 5 Super gigs, that just aren't well paid.
Do you reckon there were a few hedging their bets after 2015 thinking even with the RWC win that Hansen would step down given he had been in the ABs for 12 seasons?
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@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
as evidenced by other top candidates not even bothering to apply
Why would they apply in future if there's already succession planning?
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
as evidenced by other top candidates not even bothering to apply
Why would they apply in future if there's already succession planning?
The whole application process seems somewhat archaic and unnecessary given what all other nations are doing with their coaches, which is simply identifying someone they like and making an offer. It seems to me we will have to do something similar henceforth to avoid another Fozzie situation arising, or at the very least change the application process entirely.
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@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
as evidenced by other top candidates not even bothering to apply
Why would they apply in future if there's already succession planning?
The whole application process seems somewhat archaic and unnecessary given what all other nations are doing with their coaches, which is simply identifying someone they like and making an offer. It seems to me we will have to do something similar henceforth to avoid another Fozzie situation arising, or at the very least change the application process entirely.
@junior yeah although I can kinda see how the way they were trying to do it may have it's merits - but they should be communicating a shitload more to who they see as part of that planning and planning it better, so that people aren't just left on the outside with not a dicky on what the future may hold, hoping that a job may come up in the next 5 years.
Can't see that happening with this lot in charge though.
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I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
Surely It's about the balance between getting the right bloke for the job and making sure that bloke has experience of the role and the environment to succeed?
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OPINION:
Once upon a time innovation formed the heartbeat of the All Blacks. As rugby's trendsetters fall behind the leading pack, creativity must again spark their belated revival.
As far back as the 1905 Originals, the All Blacks embraced innovation to be one step ahead of their opposition.
On the boat ride over to New Zealand's first fully representative tour of the northern hemisphere, All Blacks captain Dave Gallaher kept his men fit through boxing and other exercise while studying the game's laws to discover a loophole.
Gallaher devised a new position. The "wing/forward" was born and, with it, the ability to play in both roles.
On that tour the Originals won 34 of their 35 games – their only blip a 3-0 loss to Wales. They scored 385 points in their first 10 games in England, with their opponents managing one drop goal and a try.
Those early feats set the legacy and expectation for the 117 years that followed, inspiring generations of New Zealand rugby players and coaches to strive for similar excellence – and to be creative with their vision for the game.
In that time the All Blacks have experienced many peaks and troughs. The ability to emerge out the other side can largely be attributed to the No 8 wire ability to be bold, to take risks, and reinvent themselves.
As the laws have changed, inevitably the All Blacks adapt quicker than most to find their competitive advantage. Not so now.
One of the major frustrations with the current team's decline – after four losses from their past five tests – is the prevailing conservatism and their lack of attacking creativity
From an attacking perspective the All Blacks seem lost. Too often they rely on individual brilliance to spark tries or break the line rather than any semblance of structured creativity.
Finding the balance between empowering naturally gifted athletes to back their instincts by playing what they see, and sticking to a structure that gives the team a shared understanding of where to be next is no easy task.
At present, though, the All Blacks attack is dysfunctional. Hence drastic change in the form of Brad Mooar's exit – and head coach Ian Foster assuming the attack brief for the next tests in South Africa.
Some of the attacking struggles can be pinned on the lack of a go forward platform, the misfiring lineout and consistently ineffective work at the breakdown which leaves slow, static ball and allows defensive lines ample time to reset.
Tactically, though, the All Blacks started the third test against Ireland with Beauden Barrett hoisting towering bombs – in prime attacking positions – to some of the world's best high ball exponents.
With ball in hand, the All Blacks found success in their first test victory at Eden Park by hitting the third forward runner in the pod. Yet once Ireland made the adjustment the following week, there were few other answers.
Near constant change to the All Blacks backline, through injuries and Covid absences in recent times, hasn't allowed combinations to develop but the strategy of firing deep, wide passes has been easily picked off to leave ball carries pinned well behind the gain line.
In essence, over the past five years the All Blacks attack has become too predictable. From their pod formations to set moves there is a desperate need to evolve, to innovate, and regain their attacking spark.
The inherent flair, the offloads and creativity at the line must be rekindled. And fast.
Whether it be from the lineout – remember the Tony Woodcock "tea bag" try in the 2011 World Cup final – the scrum or from second phase, the All Blacks still possess some of the game's most lethal threats.
The time has come to unleash them
Joe Schmidt's addition to the coaching team, even from afar, should help. Schmidt is one of the game's most analytical minds, with his pet play moves renowned. So, too, should Jason Ryan's injection revive the forward pack.
With Mooar moved on, though, the onus largely falls on Foster to deliver a vastly improved attacking performance against the Springboks.
Two-and-a-half weeks ago in their last loss in Wellington the All Blacks produced two line break assists – both from Ardie Savea to Will Jordan. While it's great to boast such a skilful loose forward, Savea serving up the only assists of that match encapsulates the All Blacks attacking issues.
The other pressing concern - not one quickly addressed, either - is the decline in the All Blacks' skills.
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@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
Surely It's about the balance between getting the right bloke for the job and making sure that bloke has experience of the role and the environment to succeed?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
Surely It's about the balance between getting the right bloke for the job and making sure that bloke has experience of the role and the environment to succeed?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
Surely It's about the balance between getting the right bloke for the job and making sure that bloke has experience of the role and the environment to succeed?
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
Surely It's about the balance between getting the right bloke for the job and making sure that bloke has experience of the role and the environment to succeed?
Is that a GIF of Frizell trying to understand a game-plan?
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OPINION:
Once upon a time innovation formed the heartbeat of the All Blacks. As rugby's trendsetters fall behind the leading pack, creativity must again spark their belated revival.
As far back as the 1905 Originals, the All Blacks embraced innovation to be one step ahead of their opposition.
On the boat ride over to New Zealand's first fully representative tour of the northern hemisphere, All Blacks captain Dave Gallaher kept his men fit through boxing and other exercise while studying the game's laws to discover a loophole.
Gallaher devised a new position. The "wing/forward" was born and, with it, the ability to play in both roles.
On that tour the Originals won 34 of their 35 games – their only blip a 3-0 loss to Wales. They scored 385 points in their first 10 games in England, with their opponents managing one drop goal and a try.
Those early feats set the legacy and expectation for the 117 years that followed, inspiring generations of New Zealand rugby players and coaches to strive for similar excellence – and to be creative with their vision for the game.
In that time the All Blacks have experienced many peaks and troughs. The ability to emerge out the other side can largely be attributed to the No 8 wire ability to be bold, to take risks, and reinvent themselves.
As the laws have changed, inevitably the All Blacks adapt quicker than most to find their competitive advantage. Not so now.
One of the major frustrations with the current team's decline – after four losses from their past five tests – is the prevailing conservatism and their lack of attacking creativity
From an attacking perspective the All Blacks seem lost. Too often they rely on individual brilliance to spark tries or break the line rather than any semblance of structured creativity.
Finding the balance between empowering naturally gifted athletes to back their instincts by playing what they see, and sticking to a structure that gives the team a shared understanding of where to be next is no easy task.
At present, though, the All Blacks attack is dysfunctional. Hence drastic change in the form of Brad Mooar's exit – and head coach Ian Foster assuming the attack brief for the next tests in South Africa.
Some of the attacking struggles can be pinned on the lack of a go forward platform, the misfiring lineout and consistently ineffective work at the breakdown which leaves slow, static ball and allows defensive lines ample time to reset.
Tactically, though, the All Blacks started the third test against Ireland with Beauden Barrett hoisting towering bombs – in prime attacking positions – to some of the world's best high ball exponents.
With ball in hand, the All Blacks found success in their first test victory at Eden Park by hitting the third forward runner in the pod. Yet once Ireland made the adjustment the following week, there were few other answers.
Near constant change to the All Blacks backline, through injuries and Covid absences in recent times, hasn't allowed combinations to develop but the strategy of firing deep, wide passes has been easily picked off to leave ball carries pinned well behind the gain line.
In essence, over the past five years the All Blacks attack has become too predictable. From their pod formations to set moves there is a desperate need to evolve, to innovate, and regain their attacking spark.
The inherent flair, the offloads and creativity at the line must be rekindled. And fast.
Whether it be from the lineout – remember the Tony Woodcock "tea bag" try in the 2011 World Cup final – the scrum or from second phase, the All Blacks still possess some of the game's most lethal threats.
The time has come to unleash them
Joe Schmidt's addition to the coaching team, even from afar, should help. Schmidt is one of the game's most analytical minds, with his pet play moves renowned. So, too, should Jason Ryan's injection revive the forward pack.
With Mooar moved on, though, the onus largely falls on Foster to deliver a vastly improved attacking performance against the Springboks.
Two-and-a-half weeks ago in their last loss in Wellington the All Blacks produced two line break assists – both from Ardie Savea to Will Jordan. While it's great to boast such a skilful loose forward, Savea serving up the only assists of that match encapsulates the All Blacks attacking issues.
The other pressing concern - not one quickly addressed, either - is the decline in the All Blacks' skills.
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
On that tour the Originals won 34 of their 35 games – their only blip a 3-0 loss to Wales.
Fake history. Deans did score.
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I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
@Bones there is good planning and bad planning. I don't think anyone wants yet more
bad succession planning. -
@Bones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm loving how so many were bemoaning the succession planning that led to Foster head coach, and now we've come around to saying NZR should be succession planning so that we get the best coaches.
@Bones there is good planning and bad planning. I don't think anyone wants yet more
bad succession planning.@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
there is good planning and bad planning
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
there is good planning and bad planning
and there is meme overkill...
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All Blacks head coach Ian Foster is understood to have been told by his New Zealand Rugby bosses that they expect him to resign if his side loses in South Africa or fails to show definitive improvements.
The Herald understands the request was made by NZR chief executive Mark Robinson and general manager of professional rugby Chris Lendrum at a tense meeting at Foster's house a few days after the All Blacks had lost the series to Ireland.
At the same meeting Foster presented his plan to reshape his coaching team by axing assistant coaches John Plumtree and Brad Mooar and bring in Crusaders forwards supremo Jason Ryan.
That move was approved, but Foster was then told it may not be enough to save his job and that he was being given the series against South Africa to prove whether he is the right man to carry on as head coach.
It is believed that when he was told that he should resign if performances and results don't measure up in South Africa, Foster made it clear that if Robinson wants him out, he will have to sack him.
The inability of that exchange to provide any certainty about what will happen to the All Blacks head coach has added to the sense that there is a growing disconnect between Robinson and Foster.
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All Blacks head coach Ian Foster is understood to have been told by his New Zealand Rugby bosses that they expect him to resign if his side loses in South Africa or fails to show definitive improvements.
The Herald understands the request was made by NZR chief executive Mark Robinson and general manager of professional rugby Chris Lendrum at a tense meeting at Foster's house a few days after the All Blacks had lost the series to Ireland.
At the same meeting Foster presented his plan to reshape his coaching team by axing assistant coaches John Plumtree and Brad Mooar and bring in Crusaders forwards supremo Jason Ryan.
That move was approved, but Foster was then told it may not be enough to save his job and that he was being given the series against South Africa to prove whether he is the right man to carry on as head coach.
It is believed that when he was told that he should resign if performances and results don't measure up in South Africa, Foster made it clear that if Robinson wants him out, he will have to sack him.
The inability of that exchange to provide any certainty about what will happen to the All Blacks head coach has added to the sense that there is a growing disconnect between Robinson and Foster.
@Tim said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
All Blacks head coach Ian Foster is understood to have been told by his New Zealand Rugby bosses that they expect him to resign if his side loses in South Africa or fails to show definitive improvements.
The Herald understands the request was made by NZR chief executive Mark Robinson and general manager of professional rugby Chris Lendrum at a tense meeting at Foster's house a few days after the All Blacks had lost the series to Ireland.
At the same meeting Foster presented his plan to reshape his coaching team by axing assistant coaches John Plumtree and Brad Mooar and bring in Crusaders forwards supremo Jason Ryan.
That move was approved, but Foster was then told it may not be enough to save his job and that he was being given the series against South Africa to prove whether he is the right man to carry on as head coach.
It is believed that when he was told that he should resign if performances and results don't measure up in South Africa, Foster made it clear that if Robinson wants him out, he will have to sack him.
The inability of that exchange to provide any certainty about what will happen to the All Blacks head coach has added to the sense that there is a growing disconnect between Robinson and Foster.
Expecting him to resign is not a viable plan of action. Clearly Robinson doesn't understand how employment contracts work....
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Foster and Robinson should both be canned. Amateur hour the pair of them.
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Foster and Robinson should both be canned. Amateur hour the pair of them.
All Blacks head coach Ian Foster is understood to have been told by his New Zealand Rugby bosses that they expect him to resign if his side loses in South Africa or fails to show definitive improvements.Does that mean he has to win both, or win one and not lose the other badly?
If he doesn't resign and they fire him I guess he can sue?
Am wondering what this contract looks like. -
All Blacks head coach Ian Foster is understood to have been told by his New Zealand Rugby bosses that they expect him to resign if his side loses in South Africa or fails to show definitive improvements.
The Herald understands the request was made by NZR chief executive Mark Robinson and general manager of professional rugby Chris Lendrum at a tense meeting at Foster's house a few days after the All Blacks had lost the series to Ireland.
At the same meeting Foster presented his plan to reshape his coaching team by axing assistant coaches John Plumtree and Brad Mooar and bring in Crusaders forwards supremo Jason Ryan.
That move was approved, but Foster was then told it may not be enough to save his job and that he was being given the series against South Africa to prove whether he is the right man to carry on as head coach.
It is believed that when he was told that he should resign if performances and results don't measure up in South Africa, Foster made it clear that if Robinson wants him out, he will have to sack him.
The inability of that exchange to provide any certainty about what will happen to the All Blacks head coach has added to the sense that there is a growing disconnect between Robinson and Foster.
