Springboks v All Blacks 2
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@Machpants said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Ardie won lineout ball from the front against Ireland and the Boks (9 takes in total), Cane picked up one throw over the back. Ardie is the main forward ball-carrier, with 124 metres on 32 carries in two-and-a-half matches against the Irish, and 16 significant outcomes, compared to 27 metres and none for Cane. Savea also has more pilfers on the ground than the Chiefs man over the four matches (three for Ardie, one for Sam).
these stats are fucking appalling. Savea also lost a couple of lineouts which you should never fucking do at 2.
Ardie had 40m in one run for a try, which means 80m on 31 carries. how many errors?
3 turnovers from two players over 4 games from your 7 and 8 is fucking shithouse.Neither player is nailing any sort of a core loose forward role at the moment, and i am sick of the coaching staff just fucking ignoring it.
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go. he has got too slow to play 7 (happens to the best of us) and is having far too little impact. No pressure on 10s. No turnovers. no protecting our ball. He's one of a couple of "good players not actually positively contributing" who are nailed on to start.
Savea is not playing much better, but at least has the ability to do something decent with the ball.@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
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@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@pakman do you have access to this article by Nick Bishop?
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/all-blacks-back-row-desperate-for-a-shake-up/
I'd recommend people to pay for the sub, it's cheap as, and is worth it for just Bishop's articles - which come with very pertinant GIFs
Foster thinks we're getting there, on the right track. FOster is not the man to lead a revolution. Cane has gone downhill EDIT Mentions injuries are probably a big cause
The synergy between Ardie Savea and Sam Cane in the back row is not obvious. Ardie won lineout ball from the front against Ireland and the Boks (9 takes in total), Cane picked up one throw over the back. Ardie is the main forward ball-carrier, with 124 metres on 32 carries in two-and-a-half matches against the Irish, and 16 significant outcomes, compared to 27 metres and none for Cane. Savea also has more pilfers on the ground than the Chiefs man over the four matches (three for Ardie, one for Sam).
Although Sam Cane has made more tackles (51 to 38 by Savea) it is not enough to disturb the impression that Ardie is doing the work of at least one and a half men.
Several example of Cane doing really fuck all. Several one on ones with Marx, Cane inneffective apart from one. Also on attack he is no threat so is ignored.
Key point, as has often been pointed out here
Ian Foster is still busy insisting on the evolution of his team, but the way in which events are unfolding in two key areas – the combination in midfield and in the back-row – suggests that a revolution in thinking is needed. The mix at numbers 6, 7 and 8 is not right, and probably never will be as long as both Ardie Savea and Sam Cane are seen as essential elements of it.
Savea is currently the best player in Aotearoa, so the focus will inevitably fall on Sam Cane’s position as captain and incumbent number 7. If Savea stays at 8, would New Zealand not profit from a bigger body who offers more at the lineout lineout and on the carry? If he shifts to 7, it creates room for another specialist like Hoskins Sotutu of the Blues, or Marino Mikaele-Tu’u of the Highlanders. Either option offers better balance than what the All Blacks have now.
It is time for protests in the street and fists pumping the air – Vive la Révolution!
Agree with the article without even reading it. I might even accept it if they took Akira out of the picture despite the fact I think it would be a mistake. Ardie should be at seven, Pap should be on the bench, Akira at six and out next number eight is Sotutu. I’m not altogether SOLD on him but Ardie is not a eight, we need some abrasiveness at 8, and you can put a fork in Cane.
Foster will not make these changes though because he’s invested. He’s going down with the sinking ship. Instead of blooding new locks and trying to find a solution for second five his anus puckers up at the hard decisions. He has no foresight. We, the fern, knew that we had problems with our forwards years ago.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
I'll start stripping off
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@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
I'll start stripping off
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
I'll start stripping off
There's a good chance he'll get diverted at the bakeries en route.
I have wondered how Cane (or Ardie) would be going with Sotutu at 8, but I doubt Foster will give us the chance to find out. By the time Foster is sacked, it will then be too late for Cane...
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I don't see Savea being used as the starting 7 again as he very rarely plays there for the Hurricanes either.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
I'll start stripping off
There's a good chance he'll get diverted at the bakeries en route.
I have wondered how Cane (or Ardie) would be going with Sotutu at 8, but I doubt Foster will give us the chance to find out. By the time Foster is sacked, it will then be too late for Cane...
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
I'll start stripping off
There's a good chance he'll get diverted at the bakeries en route.
I have wondered how Cane (or Ardie) would be going with Sotutu at 8, but I doubt Foster will give us the chance to find out. By the time Foster is sacked, it will then be too late for Cane...
unfortunately i think this is the truth of the matter. If cane is being hamstrung by the mix and the pattern he is asked to play, we will never know because i think he'll go down with this ship.
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@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
I'll start stripping off
There's a good chance he'll get diverted at the bakeries en route.
I have wondered how Cane (or Ardie) would be going with Sotutu at 8, but I doubt Foster will give us the chance to find out. By the time Foster is sacked, it will then be too late for Cane...
unfortunately i think this is the truth of the matter. If cane is being hamstrung by the mix and the pattern he is asked to play, we will never know because i think he'll go down with this ship.
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
I'll start stripping off
There's a good chance he'll get diverted at the bakeries en route.
I have wondered how Cane (or Ardie) would be going with Sotutu at 8, but I doubt Foster will give us the chance to find out. By the time Foster is sacked, it will then be too late for Cane...
unfortunately i think this is the truth of the matter. If cane is being hamstrung by the mix and the pattern he is asked to play, we will never know because i think he'll go down with this ship.
Indeed, that was a big driver of the Mafia page rallying for one last genuine swipe at Ferret Foster. I think with better management (and not returning to the captaincy in the wake of the torn pectoral) we'd have got this year plus another All Blacks season out of Cane, and with less constant game time/more impact overall.
The bloke has had a decade in the top flight and a long/serious injury list, but will end up being thrown under the bus this year because of the relatively all or nothing approach taken to him.
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@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Donsteppa said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Sorry mafia, but Cane has to go.
HoriBoP is en route to revoke your Tauranga Citizenship and Bay of Plenty colours.
I'll start stripping off
There's a good chance he'll get diverted at the bakeries en route.
I have wondered how Cane (or Ardie) would be going with Sotutu at 8, but I doubt Foster will give us the chance to find out. By the time Foster is sacked, it will then be too late for Cane...
unfortunately i think this is the truth of the matter. If cane is being hamstrung by the mix and the pattern he is asked to play, we will never know because i think he'll go down with this ship.
@mariner4life alot is being laid at the feet of Fozzie & Cane, neither are responding very well to this.
Fozzie trotting out the same tired cliches, Cane looks frustrated as fuck, but saying what you expect about how hard they are working, how close they are etc, but worst of all, his onfield performances or leadership are doing nothing to quell any concerns.
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@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Duluth I got as far as putting in the right steps in preparation. They don't seem to be the right steps though eh, despite how stoked he is with the off pitch performance. Surely that has to become clear?
Winning on the training ground, it is like Foster has been infected by Cheika (We just need to do it better) and Cane by Hooper (We trained so very well)
It's so embarassing
@Machpants said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Duluth I got as far as putting in the right steps in preparation. They don't seem to be the right steps though eh, despite how stoked he is with the off pitch performance. Surely that has to become clear?
Winning on the training ground, it is like Foster has been infected by Cheika (We just need to do it better) and Cane by Hooper (We trained so very well)
It's so embarassing
Winning on the training ground
Oh good we now win on the training ground job done,
This is what the AB's have become, Disgrace. -
@mariner4life alot is being laid at the feet of Fozzie & Cane, neither are responding very well to this.
Fozzie trotting out the same tired cliches, Cane looks frustrated as fuck, but saying what you expect about how hard they are working, how close they are etc, but worst of all, his onfield performances or leadership are doing nothing to quell any concerns.
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life alot is being laid at the feet of Fozzie & Cane, neither are responding very well to this.
Fozzie trotting out the same tired cliches, Cane looks frustrated as fuck, but saying what you expect about how hard they are working, how close they are etc.
Working hard on the wrong things, getting closer and closer to the wrong destination.
The NZ All Blacks. The definition of madness since 2019
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life alot is being laid at the feet of Fozzie & Cane, neither are responding very well to this.
Fozzie trotting out the same tired cliches, Cane looks frustrated as fuck, but saying what you expect about how hard they are working, how close they are etc.
Working hard on the wrong things, getting closer and closer to the wrong destination.
The NZ All Blacks. The definition of madness since 2019
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life alot is being laid at the feet of Fozzie & Cane, neither are responding very well to this.
Fozzie trotting out the same tired cliches, Cane looks frustrated as fuck, but saying what you expect about how hard they are working, how close they are etc.
Working hard on the wrong things, getting closer and closer to the wrong destination.
The NZ All Blacks. The definition of madness since 20
1917Yes indeed
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@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life alot is being laid at the feet of Fozzie & Cane, neither are responding very well to this.
Fozzie trotting out the same tired cliches, Cane looks frustrated as fuck, but saying what you expect about how hard they are working, how close they are etc.
Working hard on the wrong things, getting closer and closer to the wrong destination.
The NZ All Blacks. The definition of madness since 20
1917Yes indeed
@Machpants said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@canefan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life alot is being laid at the feet of Fozzie & Cane, neither are responding very well to this.
Fozzie trotting out the same tired cliches, Cane looks frustrated as fuck, but saying what you expect about how hard they are working, how close they are etc.
Working hard on the wrong things, getting closer and closer to the wrong destination.
The NZ All Blacks. The definition of madness since 20
1917Yes indeed
Nice correction
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I don't see Savea being used as the starting 7 again as he very rarely plays there for the Hurricanes either.
@Bovidae said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I don't see Savea being used as the starting 7 again as he very rarely plays there for the Hurricanes either.
Was that due to being told his immediate future at
AB level is at 8 though ?So was in everyones best interests to play there to get better at it .
I’ve got no idea , but I wondered the same thing
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Dalton was the best 7 in NZ in SR, yet his brief moments in black this year, to me show how the environment is affecting people.
We know Fozzie has mad love for Ardie at 8, but the fact he has given Sotutu nothing at all is concerning, why? has Sotutu done something, does Fozzie just think Ardie is so crucial to whatever structure he wants to play, or does he just not think Sotutu is upto it?
How many weeks is it now since Sotutu has played rugby?
Have to think 1 of Grace or MMT will go on EOYT, despite them giving PGS a cap.
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Dalton was the best 7 in NZ in SR, yet his brief moments in black this year, to me show how the environment is affecting people.
We know Fozzie has mad love for Ardie at 8, but the fact he has given Sotutu nothing at all is concerning, why? has Sotutu done something, does Fozzie just think Ardie is so crucial to whatever structure he wants to play, or does he just not think Sotutu is upto it?
How many weeks is it now since Sotutu has played rugby?
Have to think 1 of Grace or MMT will go on EOYT, despite them giving PGS a cap.
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
How many weeks is it now since Sotutu has played rugby?
7 and half weeks
PGS was given the first 2 tests, and he'll never be back. Then they abandoned an 8 on the bench.
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@Bovidae said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I don't see Savea being used as the starting 7 again as he very rarely plays there for the Hurricanes either.
Was that due to being told his immediate future at
AB level is at 8 though ?So was in everyones best interests to play there to get better at it .
I’ve got no idea , but I wondered the same thing
@kiwiinmelb We don't know either way, but just as likely to accommodate Kirifi in the loose forwards. Using another example, Goodhue never played 2nd 5 for the ABs before playing there for the Crusaders.
I understand that the AB coaches leave the SR coaches to make their own selection decisions, as it should be.
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
How many weeks is it now since Sotutu has played rugby?
7 and half weeks
PGS was given the first 2 tests, and he'll never be back. Then they abandoned an 8 on the bench.
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
How many weeks is it now since Sotutu has played rugby?
7 and half weeks
PGS was given the first 2 tests, and he'll never be back. Then they abandoned an 8 on the bench.
It's disgusting what they did with PGS. I'm also a fan of HS. They need minutes.
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
How many weeks is it now since Sotutu has played rugby?
7 and half weeks
PGS was given the first 2 tests, and he'll never be back. Then they abandoned an 8 on the bench.
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
How many weeks is it now since Sotutu has played rugby?
7 and half weeks
He played for CM in a game I watched a few weeks back. It was a 50 min match.
