Foster, Robertson etc
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
I didn't realise he got another shot as head coach
@Machpants said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
I didn't realise he got another shot as head coach
oh is that the critical point?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again?
Not sure if anyone has actually said that, but I imagine it wouldn't play out too well for his future intentions.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again?
Not sure if anyone has actually said that, but I imagine it wouldn't play out too well for his future intentions.
Well I thought Eddie Jones was lost to Australia permanently (Australia are one ranking below us by the way, at the moment)
https://wwos.nine.com.au/rugby/news-2022-eddie-jones-backed-for-australian-return-by-wallabies-assistant-coach/b0153ffe-c83a-4888-bfd3-752b6e793c52 -
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again?
Not sure if anyone has actually said that, but I imagine it wouldn't play out too well for his future intentions.
Well I thought Eddie Jones was lost to Australia permanently (Australia are one ranking below us by the way, at the moment)
https://wwos.nine.com.au/rugby/news-2022-eddie-jones-backed-for-australian-return-by-wallabies-assistant-coach/b0153ffe-c83a-4888-bfd3-752b6e793c52 -
@nostrildamus I'm not sure Eddie coached the ABs and failed very early on in his career did he?
@Bones Wayne Smith also didnt return to the AB set up as Head Coach...
I am surprised Fozzie hasnt suggested what Henry, Hansen and SMith did...shuffle the coaching roles
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This thread is throwing up some curveballs for me.
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ? Granted, the Welsh sing better and are more likely to appreciate a man who knows his way around sheep, but it is the same darn country!@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
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@Bones Wayne Smith also didnt return to the AB set up as Head Coach...
I am surprised Fozzie hasnt suggested what Henry, Hansen and SMith did...shuffle the coaching roles
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Bones Wayne Smith also didnt return to the AB set up as Head Coach...
I replied above...ok so you can't fail as head coach of the ABs and come back? Or you can succeed then fail as AB coach and return? (If Hansen put up his hand...)
As to Eddie I thought there were some bridges burned...he was fired in 2005, 2 years from finishing his contract but won 1/9 of their final games if I recall correctly.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Bones Wayne Smith also didnt return to the AB set up as Head Coach...
I replied above...ok so you can't fail as head coach of the ABs and come back? Or you can succeed then fail as AB coach and return? (If Hansen put up his hand...)
As to Eddie I thought there were some bridges burned...he was fired in 2005, 2 years from finishing his contract but won 1/9 of their final games if I recall correctly.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job. -
The guy everyone wants to replace Foster also picks Havili at 12. Just saying...
@Billy-Tell said in Foster:
The guy everyone wants to replace Foster also picks Havili at 12. Just saying...
He also had JB at 12....
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@nostrildamus but that's Australia?
@nostrildamus but that's Australia?
premise 1: you can be a failed AB head coach and return as AB assistant coach
premise 2: you can fail as a head coach in another country and still be sought by them again years later
premise 3: NZ is running out of top players, a winning record, a great reputation and top coaches who are available hence the gap between it and other countries is narrowing
premise 4: nobody seems to have a clue what the NZR are thinking
conclusion: it is all up in the air. -
@nostrildamus but that's Australia?
@nostrildamus but that's Australia?
if the AB coach role was open and only Eddie Jones and Ian Foster applied, and you are not allowed to shoot yourself, who would you pick?
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@nostrildamus but that's Australia?
if the AB coach role was open and only Eddie Jones and Ian Foster applied, and you are not allowed to shoot yourself, who would you pick?
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus but that's Australia?
if the AB coach role was open and only Eddie Jones and Ian Foster applied, and you are not allowed to shoot yourself, who would you pick?
Eddie may be a dick. But at least he's a smart dick
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
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Or will Razor take the England coaching job because NZR have not asked Razor to take the AB job, and haven't had any contact with him.
That is also a likely situation looking at the NZR history lately.This is the only thing Razor has said lately on the subject recently.
"If New Zealand Rugby want me, great," Robertson told The Big Jim Show.
"If there is another country - I wouldn't go to a club now - I really want to go to Rugby World Cup. I genuinely want to go to a couple.
"It's one job (All Blacks coach) and when someone doesn't give it to you, you have to think differently, about what opportunities are out there.
article below
link text -
@nostrildamus but that's Australia?
premise 1: you can be a failed AB head coach and return as AB assistant coach
premise 2: you can fail as a head coach in another country and still be sought by them again years later
premise 3: NZ is running out of top players, a winning record, a great reputation and top coaches who are available hence the gap between it and other countries is narrowing
premise 4: nobody seems to have a clue what the NZR are thinking
conclusion: it is all up in the air.@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus but that's Australia?
premise 1: you can be a failed AB head coach and return as AB assistant coach
premise 2: you can fail as a head coach in another country and still be sought by them again years later
premise 3: NZ is running out of top players, a winning record, a great reputation and top coaches who are available hence the gap between it and other countries is narrowing
premise 4: nobody seems to have a clue what the NZR are thinking
conclusion: it is all up in the air.Hey I'm not the one comparing coaching the ABs to coaching Australia. And then helping coach a handful of other teams. And then coaching England. But not returning to coach Australia...
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
It depends, who knows where the ABs will be in 2028? Maybe the interim coach came in and won two RWC in a row. Then Razor is up against a coach who has just taken the Highlanders to their 5th Super title in a row and didn't leave at the time we needed him the most.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
It depends, who knows where the ABs will be in 2028? Maybe the interim coach came in and won two RWC in a row. Then Razor is up against a coach who has just taken the Highlanders to their 5th Super title in a row and didn't leave at the time we needed him the most.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
It depends, who knows where the ABs will be in 2028? Maybe the interim coach came in and won two RWC in a row. Then Razor is up against a coach who has just taken the Highlanders to their 5th Super title in a row and didn't leave at the time we needed him the most.
Razor should take care not to walk down the Deans path
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@Mario said in Foster:
UK-based lurker ... if Scott Robertson will only take the job on his terms, why blame him?
His job market has been global since the late 90s. Afaik Scotland, England, likely Wales and maybe Australia will be in the market for a head coach after the next RWC. Four jobs and very unlikely he's not in contact with a few, probably all of them right now?
If NZR don't see it that way, they can create a 'Robertson law' like they had in 1998-00 :winking_face:
NZRFU to discard 'Henry Law'Who else would we blame for his decision?
As for your second point, he's been very public about his wish to coach the ABs, if he then turns down that opportunity when it's offered then it may not be offered again. That's not saying the door would be completely closed a la the Henry Law but it could harm his future attempts at getting the job.
@Nepia Yeah ... it is the way of the kiwi public when the AB's aren't #1 or #2 :winking_face:
The talent stream from 2003-4 that peaked in 2013-16 was once in a generation thoughI really respect Wayne Smith for stepping down. He gave it a go then he admitted he was not a NOT a natural head coach at that level ... shows reals self-awareness and humilty which Foster appears to lack
From afar Robertson may not see turning down a poisoned chalice as sacrilege unless he can get it on his terms i.e. he's negotiating - and part of that negotiation goes public. NZR are in a pickle, they have no one else to blame but themselves?
I think a deal WILL be reached btw
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
It depends, who knows where the ABs will be in 2028? Maybe the interim coach came in and won two RWC in a row. Then Razor is up against a coach who has just taken the Highlanders to their 5th Super title in a row and didn't leave at the time we needed him the most.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
It depends, who knows where the ABs will be in 2028? Maybe the interim coach came in and won two RWC in a row. Then Razor is up against a coach who has just taken the Highlanders to their 5th Super title in a row and didn't leave at the time we needed him the most.
oh yeah like in any job those are the chances. Then again nothing is confirmed as AFAIK, the sauces have dried up before, and I have no solid evidence the NZR have a plan B after Foster.
