Foster, Robertson etc
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
This thread is throwing up some curveballs for me.
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ? Granted, the Welsh sing better and are more likely to appreciate a man who knows his way around sheep, but it is the same darn country!You may just have triggered @MiketheSnow
@Catogrande said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
This thread is throwing up some curveballs for me.
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ? Granted, the Welsh sing better and are more likely to appreciate a man who knows his way around sheep, but it is the same darn country!You may just have triggered @MiketheSnow
Nah. He's been feeling right at home round here of late with all the bleating going on
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
This thread is throwing up some curveballs for me.
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ? Granted, the Welsh sing better and are more likely to appreciate a man who knows his way around sheep, but it is the same darn country!You may just have triggered @MiketheSnow
@Catogrande said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
This thread is throwing up some curveballs for me.
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ? Granted, the Welsh sing better and are more likely to appreciate a man who knows his way around sheep, but it is the same darn country!You may just have triggered @MiketheSnow
Meanwhile the sheep reference is fine?!
Ok I take it back, Wales is their own country, with their own German monarch:
https://www.germanforthefuture.vic.edu.au/prince-charles-speaks-german-in-berlin/ -
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
Particularly if his coaching England doesn’t turn out well and / or he gets the sack. There’s no guarantees in this game so why not take the dream job when offered even if the circumstances are not ideal (and what’s to say they will ever be ideal)
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@Catogrande said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
This thread is throwing up some curveballs for me.
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ? Granted, the Welsh sing better and are more likely to appreciate a man who knows his way around sheep, but it is the same darn country!You may just have triggered @MiketheSnow
Meanwhile the sheep reference is fine?!
Ok I take it back, Wales is their own country, with their own German monarch:
https://www.germanforthefuture.vic.edu.au/prince-charles-speaks-german-in-berlin/@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@Catogrande said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
This thread is throwing up some curveballs for me.
If Robertson is picked and fails as AB coach, he can never be one again? Wave from Wayne Smith here.
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ? Granted, the Welsh sing better and are more likely to appreciate a man who knows his way around sheep, but it is the same darn country!You may just have triggered @MiketheSnow
Meanwhile the sheep reference is fine?!
Ok I take it back, Wales is their own country, with their own German monarch:Well one is true and the other is not :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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Same openside, same midfield, same FB. Props rotated for the umpteenth time.
It won't be pretty but at least on Monday we can get excited about the challenge of facing Argentina in Chch.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
It depends, who knows where the ABs will be in 2028? Maybe the interim coach came in and won two RWC in a row. Then Razor is up against a coach who has just taken the Highlanders to their 5th Super title in a row and didn't leave at the time we needed him the most.
oh yeah like in any job those are the chances. Then again nothing is confirmed as AFAIK, the sauces have dried up before, and I have no solid evidence the NZR have a plan B after Foster.
Based on their performance over the last few years, with SANZAR dealings, the AB coach search and Silverlake, what makes us think they have a plan B?
Based on their performance over the last few years, with SANZAR dealings, the AB coach search and Silverlake, what makes us think they have a plan B?
Given their Plan A, I have no interest in following their Plan B.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
It depends, who knows where the ABs will be in 2028? Maybe the interim coach came in and won two RWC in a row. Then Razor is up against a coach who has just taken the Highlanders to their 5th Super title in a row and didn't leave at the time we needed him the most.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
It is ok to go and coach Wales and come back to coach NZ but you can't coach England and come back to coach NZ?
No one has actually said this, but the context is around him turning down an offer to coach the ABs then going to coach England instead. Henry and Hanson did not turn down the ABs and then go coach Wales.
So the below quote actually means one can't turn down ABs, take up the English job then come back because one cannot turn down a fragile and unsure contract for a much better paying one overseas as, once receiving the international experience the NZR allegedly ASKED FOR, is now unemployable by NZR?
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.That is just speculation, everything in this thread is speculation. But, do you really think turning down the AB job when asked, after 2 years of talking about the ABs job and signing a contract based around obtaining that job, and then taking a job with England wouldn't harm Razor's chances at getting the head coach job in the future? As I said in a response to another poster even if there's no specific rule it will likely harm his chances in the future.
I agree to likely damage, I just don't think NZR are in a strong position any more to blacklist potentially good coaches especially ones they rejected first who then did what they were told to do by the NZR to avoid future rejection again.
It depends, who knows where the ABs will be in 2028? Maybe the interim coach came in and won two RWC in a row. Then Razor is up against a coach who has just taken the Highlanders to their 5th Super title in a row and didn't leave at the time we needed him the most.
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@Windows97 said in Foster:
Both of these together have formed a culture of be a jack of all trades and master of none and close enough is good enough. This does not create a culture of excellence, excellence in your position or excellence on the field.
Great line. There's a lot in your post I disagree with, but good work getting it out there.
Check your typo by the way - JB is at fullback holding back Will Jordan (not SB). And who could forget Jordie on the wing.
So many of these problems come with forwards not getting go forward.
@Windows97 said in Foster:
Both of these together have formed a culture of be a jack of all trades and master of none and close enough is good enough. This does not create a culture of excellence, excellence in your position or excellence on the field.
Great line. There's a lot in your post I disagree with, but good work getting it out there.
Check your typo by the way - JB is at fullback holding back Will Jordan (not SB). And who could forget Jordie on the wing.
So many of these problems come with forwards not getting go forward.
I think that one gets overdone a bit when it was clear they were getting him experience on the field ala Ben Smith who was playing fullback for the Landers but was selected on the wing for the ABs for quite some time.
I’m glad it’s over now because he’s a decent fullback - but currently out of form.
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Random
Devo need to introduce some young props.
Sotutu needs some time at 8
Savea to 7. Loosies, I'd prob select Savea/Paps/Sotutu
If Razor heads off overseas I'm watching soccer -
Random
Devo need to introduce some young props.
Sotutu needs some time at 8
Savea to 7. Loosies, I'd prob select Savea/Paps/Sotutu
If Razor heads off overseas I'm watching socceris Luke Jacobson injured? A trio of him at 6, Savea and Sotutu (or Grace) might have been interesting.
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Random
Devo need to introduce some young props.
Sotutu needs some time at 8
Savea to 7. Loosies, I'd prob select Savea/Paps/Sotutu
If Razor heads off overseas I'm watching soccer -
Foster is looking for a "death by cop" exit after picking that back row and midfield again.
Surprised at the lack of game time given to Sotutu, RTS, Perofeta, Fakatava and particularly Papalii over the 5 games.
The whole situation is just so bizarre.
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Foster is looking for a "death by cop" exit after picking that back row and midfield again.
Surprised at the lack of game time given to Sotutu, RTS, Perofeta, Fakatava and particularly Papalii over the 5 games.
The whole situation is just so bizarre.
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Foster is looking for a "death by cop" exit after picking that back row and midfield again.
Surprised at the lack of game time given to Sotutu, RTS, Perofeta, Fakatava and particularly Papalii over the 5 games.
The whole situation is just so bizarre.
@Steve That's a lot of talent.
Has NZR got a plan. Stayed tuned. -
@Steve That's a lot of talent.
Has NZR got a plan. Stayed tuned.It has been so scattergun post 2019.
Robertson overlooked for the gig.
Laumape got ran out of town.
Sowakula. Capped and scrapped. Jacobsen similar.
Ennor doing the Hokey Cokey in and out of squads to ride the pine.
Clarke goes off to 7's for a year and doesn't get a gig.
Papalii utilised on EOYT and played decent enough in Dublin. Not a look in this time.
RTS comes on against Ireland at 13. Played all year at 12.
Fainganuuku been sent to coventry already.
Still really know nothing about Vaii due to lack of meaningful minutes.
Karl T gets called in against the Irish with one foot out the exit door. Hailed as our "best scrummager" but doesn't get picked.
Samisoni dropped for 3rd test after playing well .
Will Jordan benched for the second test.
The whole thing is a dogs breakfast.
Nobody knows where they stand bar Cane, the Barretts, Ardie, Aaron and Whitelock.
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@nzzp and that headline earlier in the week saying Robinson had told Fozzie to resign if he doesnt win in SA...I dont recall any denial this happened.
Robinson should walk and hold the door for Fozzie.
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@nzzp and that headline earlier in the week saying Robinson had told Fozzie to resign if he doesnt win in SA...I dont recall any denial this happened.
Robinson should walk and hold the door for Fozzie.
And the big elephant in the room is the question: Then what?
You would hope NZR have done some thinking on this, but I'm not holding my breath.
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@Machpants said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
https://twitter.com/SENZ_Radio/status/1557252908021792769?t=0OmCykeAr-saF8gkLuXqeA&s=19
My fear is that Robinson has already been talking to the RFU and will be coaching England after 2023. But lets wait until we actually know something.
If that's the case then he doesn't want the AB job at all because there's no way he comes back from that. You can't turn down the ABs for England and think you're ever going to get another shot at the AB job.
Yeah you do come back from that. You are thinkig the sort of way that left us with Foster, coaches should be so honoured to be even asked to aplly, they should just drop everythin and crawl to NZR in sack cloth. Bollocks, this is the real world with pro coaches. They rubber stamped foster last time because he didn’t have international experince, the excuse, so how is he going to get that without coaching overseas? NZR needs to wake up, if they want the best coaches they need to realise that they need to work to get them. Otherwise places like Oz and Japan steal them from under their noses, by not being so high and mighty and just offering them the job. Same as players are allowed sabbaticals these days, NZR needs forward looking thinking on coaches. Wouldn’t be so bad if coaches had the same rules as players, when it comes to international eligibility!
No you don't. It isn't going away and getting international experience while waiting for the job. It's turning it down to coach one of our most hated enemies at a time when he's needed.
That's got nothing to do with NZR's failed application process last time.
Totally disagree, there is a fucking mess, why should Razor want to clean it up? And then, because it might not be fixable in the short term, he wastes his once chance at ABs coaching? So unless they offer him until 2025 minimum, I would say fuck off, too.
If that's what he thinks then fine, but then he has to acknowledge he may be closing the door on future AB coaching opportunities. I'm not saying I necessarily agree but I think the NZ rugby community (including the powers that be) wont look very fondly on him turning down the ABs to coach England and this will be scrutinised when/if he does eventually apply.
I’m really not sure where the England line has come from, but the story/rumour is him turning down the role until he can get a full 4 year run. Nothing to do with England, England might happen if he doesn’t get it for 2024, but that’s really irrelevant.
@Machpants said in Foster:
but the story/rumour is him turning down the role until he can get a full 4 year run.
Maybe, but not a four year free pass. You'd want some checkpoints in any contract if it turns out the bloke isn't as good at Test level as people make out.
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A little bit sad that some really good/great ABs may be rested/retired after things haven't gone well. I can think of 5-6 forwards.
AB coach, Captain, players have all tried hard. I'm frustrated with NZR -
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
Based on their performance over the last few years, with SANZAR dealings, the AB coach search and Silverlake, what makes us think they have a plan B?
Given their Plan A, I have no interest in following their Plan B.
You assume they have a Plan A?
