Springboks v All Blacks 2
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@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Tell said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I’ve been watching the ABs since 87. This is the very first time I have us as firm underdogs.
The selecting is hopeless at the moment. We keep making changes on the fringes, liking dropping Reece or rotating props, and refuse to make the calls that matter.
Its also the very first time I almost hope we lose, so this nightmare can be over.
I finally know how Australian supporters have been feeling for the last 20 years.
And Welsh
@MiketheSnow said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Tell said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I’ve been watching the ABs since 87. This is the very first time I have us as firm underdogs.
The selecting is hopeless at the moment. We keep making changes on the fringes, liking dropping Reece or rotating props, and refuse to make the calls that matter.
Its also the very first time I almost hope we lose, so this nightmare can be over.
I finally know how Australian supporters have been feeling for the last 20 years.
And Welsh
Instant Life of Brian laughs
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@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Tell said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I’ve been watching the ABs since 87. This is the very first time I have us as firm underdogs.
The selecting is hopeless at the moment. We keep making changes on the fringes, liking dropping Reece or rotating props, and refuse to make the calls that matter.
Its also the very first time I almost hope we lose, so this nightmare can be over.
I finally know how Australian supporters have been feeling for the last 20 years.
And Welsh
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loved the quote about the Allblacks having 8 forwards told to express themselves and players with nice boots, nice haircuts and nice tattoos.
We have come a long way from Hayman, Brad Thorn, the Franks brothers et al.
"Head down, arse up" rugby players.
We have a load of sunshine boys in the team.
@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
loved the quote about the Allblacks having 8 forwards told to express themselves and players with nice boots, nice haircuts and nice tattoos.
We have come a long way from Hayman, Brad Thorn, the Franks brothers et al.
"Head down, arse up" rugby players.
We have a load of sunshine boys in the team.
I saw this quote, scrolled up and knew it was @Steve before I even got there !
What’s a “sunshine boy?”
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
loved the quote about the Allblacks having 8 forwards told to express themselves and players with nice boots, nice haircuts and nice tattoos.
We have come a long way from Hayman, Brad Thorn, the Franks brothers et al.
"Head down, arse up" rugby players.
We have a load of sunshine boys in the team.
I saw this quote, scrolled up and knew it was @Steve before I even got there !
What’s a “sunshine boy?”
just a bunch of soft lads who don't like it when it s cold and wet. don't like the graft. flat track bullies who only come out to play when its a nice day. lads who are too nice. sea gulling out on the wings. ruck inspectors.
they score the 9th try in a 60 point drubbing but are nowhere to be seen in a close game.
those kind of lads.
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Scathing analysis but most of it on the money to be fair.
A lot to agree with. Especially the point about AB forwards not being test match tough.
However, they sound like AB fans pre-2007. "We have amazing depth", "we're not peaking because of competition for places". There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance
Boks play test match rugby, but they are not as good as these guys think they are. I'm not talking about their conservative playing style, but the fact that the Boks struggle when they go behind on the scoreboard and play against teams that don't make mistakes. They struggle to create opportunities that aren't as a result of mistakes. That's where their game needs to evolve. If Boks can, then they can become a great team, rather than just a 70% winning team that they currently are.
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Scathing analysis but most of it on the money to be fair.
A lot to agree with. Especially the point about AB forwards not being test match tough.
However, they sound like AB fans pre-2007. "We have amazing depth", "we're not peaking because of competition for places". There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance
Boks play test match rugby, but they are not as good as these guys think they are. I'm not talking about their conservative playing style, but the fact that the Boks struggle when they go behind on the scoreboard and play against teams that don't make mistakes. They struggle to create opportunities that aren't as a result of mistakes. That's where their game needs to evolve. If Boks can, then they can become a great team, rather than just a 70% winning team that they currently are.
Whatever about what they make of themselves, I agree with what they make of us.
It was on point.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
owen franks is 34 years old and moves like it. our scrum is not so fucked that we need to chuck absolutely everything out so we get a guy in to move from set piece to set piece.
"oh, we need more from our props around the paddock!"
"i know, lets get Owen Franks back"He was hitting plenty of rucks and carting it up the guts last weekend. Given how royally fucked over we got in the scrums last weekend I would take the 34 year old over what we have at the moment.
we got royally fucked over?
AT got pinged scrum after scrum from my memory. Lomax got pinged first scrum in. I think we got one back but we were going backwards nearly every scrum.
yeah not how i remember it. definitely 2nd best no doubt, but most were pretty secure, and i reckon a couple of rulings were ridiculously harsh, and another ref would have gone a different way.
I think the fact the two starting props were dropped might suggest some issues, or maybe it was breakdown related. The props from NZ were penalised 5 times in the game, not sure how many related to the scrum but at least 3 from memory.
@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
owen franks is 34 years old and moves like it. our scrum is not so fucked that we need to chuck absolutely everything out so we get a guy in to move from set piece to set piece.
"oh, we need more from our props around the paddock!"
"i know, lets get Owen Franks back"He was hitting plenty of rucks and carting it up the guts last weekend. Given how royally fucked over we got in the scrums last weekend I would take the 34 year old over what we have at the moment.
we got royally fucked over?
AT got pinged scrum after scrum from my memory. Lomax got pinged first scrum in. I think we got one back but we were going backwards nearly every scrum.
yeah not how i remember it. definitely 2nd best no doubt, but most were pretty secure, and i reckon a couple of rulings were ridiculously harsh, and another ref would have gone a different way.
I think the fact the two starting props were dropped might suggest some issues, or maybe it was breakdown related. The props from NZ were penalised 5 times in the game, not sure how many related to the scrum but at least 3 from memory.
Lomax and Bower were penalised once each. Bower put knee down, which AR pointed out to Angus. Lomax and Ta'avao caught once each (former at first scrum) where they straightened their legs too much and Bok props pulled back and they fell to ground. Think there was one other penalty against AT.
Against that, Nyanke got penalised for knee on ground after AT had got nudge, Bower got nudge on Frans once, and replacement front row had better of Bomb Squad in last 20, which even Boks acknowledged: 'didn't get the dominance we were looking for'.
So honours for Bok starters and AB bench.
I personally wouldn't have promoted Lomax, but not seeing what happens in practice.
I expect AB bench to be on top this time. Starters will depend a lot on replacement hooker. -
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
sadly that is a predictable if uninspiring set of selections. I didn't see us just rissoling the starting props. The locks weren't changing. I just fucking knew that Frizzell was getting the gig. The change at 10 was coming. No other backline changes were in the wind, despite them shitting the bed in a massive way last week.
I honestly can't be fucked going through all the ways i am disappointed, so let's get positive.
How does this 23 win the game?
Well, why did we lose the last one? Possession and territory. Why were they issues? Breakdown protection and catching high kicks. So, we cut down those two areas and the game already looks different. The breakdown might be the more difficult to solve as i believe it's structural as much as anything. But if we can catch our high kicks, and immediately turn the Boks around with the long boots at 14 and 15 (and even 10 this week) then the Boks need to find a different outlet for points.
We did cause the Boks issues when we played direct, and threw a few inside balls. More of that, and less having tight forwards thinking "pass first" rather than being gainline focused.
The Boks scored two tries all day, one from a lucky bounce from a contested kick, and one from a shitty dropped ball. Remember that, it should make us feel better about how we defended. It won't take us much to force them to look for points elsewhere. Then it is a different game.
If we do the same as we did last week, expect the same result. But two little areas on improvement will bring an enormously different game.
I've said this time and time again. We got reamed. Not doubt about it. But for two ridiculous mistakes, on the scoreboard, there wasn't much in it. As bad as we played, the two tries scored were really from errors I would say somewhat unforced. Well, one needed more protection and the other was at the death. For all that fire and brimstone, SA didn't offer much. We still would have lost and deservedly so but if we can cut down that error rate with one or two balls sticking or the bounce of the ball going our way (we need to make our own luck), we're really in the fight. I still expect us to lose but we are still and outside chance.
@Joans-Town-Jones how is the first up tackle that was missed on Clark for the NZ try any less of an unforced error than Jordie missing the high ball?
I agree with the idea that we are not scoring as many as we should be and i view it as our single biggest weakness at the moment, but that doesnt change the tries we do score into flukes.
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Scathing analysis but most of it on the money to be fair.
A lot to agree with. Especially the point about AB forwards not being test match tough.
However, they sound like AB fans pre-2007. "We have amazing depth", "we're not peaking because of competition for places". There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance
Boks play test match rugby, but they are not as good as these guys think they are. I'm not talking about their conservative playing style, but the fact that the Boks struggle when they go behind on the scoreboard and play against teams that don't make mistakes. They struggle to create opportunities that aren't as a result of mistakes. That's where their game needs to evolve. If Boks can, then they can become a great team, rather than just a 70% winning team that they currently are.
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@stodders the only reason that Keo still has a job is because opponents click on his articles and videos to get upset with South African arrogance, just ignorevthat stupid channel
@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@stodders the only reason that Keo still has a job is because opponents click on his articles and videos to get upset with South African arrogance, just ignorevthat stupid channel
He is all about the clicks. I'm surprised people still take him seriously given his history.
I know from experience that South Africans are generally a humble bunch (which is why wearing the favourites tag does not sit well), but Keo does bring out the conspiracy nutters and the knuckle draggers. Like flies to shit.
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@Joans-Town-Jones how is the first up tackle that was missed on Clark for the NZ try any less of an unforced error than Jordie missing the high ball?
I agree with the idea that we are not scoring as many as we should be and i view it as our single biggest weakness at the moment, but that doesnt change the tries we do score into flukes.
@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Joans-Town-Jones how is the first up tackle that was missed on Clark for the NZ try any less of an unforced error than Jordie missing the high ball?
I agree with the idea that we are not scoring as many as we should be and i view it as our single biggest weakness at the moment, but that doesnt change the tries we do score into flukes.
Are you referring to the drop for the Arendse try? If so, that was Beauden.
I was surprised the ref did not look at the contest again for a knock on. Looked pretty clear that one COULD have occurred. Funny how the SA broadcaster didn't show many replays of the contest
We've discussed on here before about how the domestic broadcaster can influence games before. The TMO needs their own independent feed.Enough has been written about how the Boks were clear winners, which they were. Against the Boks, you sometimes need to roll with the punches until they get tired or have a lapse of focus (which they do). The awarding of this try gave them control of the scoreboard and momentum, when they were struggling to break down the ABs defence.
This was from a video shared by TAS Analytics.
One thing to note is Ioane's body shape...he doesn't look ready to react. In this area, the Boks were well ahead of the ABs. Their desire to scrap and fight to win possession was much better.
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
sadly that is a predictable if uninspiring set of selections. I didn't see us just rissoling the starting props. The locks weren't changing. I just fucking knew that Frizzell was getting the gig. The change at 10 was coming. No other backline changes were in the wind, despite them shitting the bed in a massive way last week.
I honestly can't be fucked going through all the ways i am disappointed, so let's get positive.
How does this 23 win the game?
Well, why did we lose the last one? Possession and territory. Why were they issues? Breakdown protection and catching high kicks. So, we cut down those two areas and the game already looks different. The breakdown might be the more difficult to solve as i believe it's structural as much as anything. But if we can catch our high kicks, and immediately turn the Boks around with the long boots at 14 and 15 (and even 10 this week) then the Boks need to find a different outlet for points.
We did cause the Boks issues when we played direct, and threw a few inside balls. More of that, and less having tight forwards thinking "pass first" rather than being gainline focused.
The Boks scored two tries all day, one from a lucky bounce from a contested kick, and one from a shitty dropped ball. Remember that, it should make us feel better about how we defended. It won't take us much to force them to look for points elsewhere. Then it is a different game.
If we do the same as we did last week, expect the same result. But two little areas on improvement will bring an enormously different game.
I've said this time and time again. We got reamed. Not doubt about it. But for two ridiculous mistakes, on the scoreboard, there wasn't much in it. As bad as we played, the two tries scored were really from errors I would say somewhat unforced. Well, one needed more protection and the other was at the death. For all that fire and brimstone, SA didn't offer much. We still would have lost and deservedly so but if we can cut down that error rate with one or two balls sticking or the bounce of the ball going our way (we need to make our own luck), we're really in the fight. I still expect us to lose but we are still and outside chance.
It's a fools errand looking at things like the bounce of the ball. The facts are that South Africa were in complete control the entire game, and played as much as they needed to.
They simply didn't need to take any risks and backed their defence.
Yes the score blew out to a record margin late, but if anything, that scoreline was extremely flattering to the All Blacks.
@Kirwan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
sadly that is a predictable if uninspiring set of selections. I didn't see us just rissoling the starting props. The locks weren't changing. I just fucking knew that Frizzell was getting the gig. The change at 10 was coming. No other backline changes were in the wind, despite them shitting the bed in a massive way last week.
I honestly can't be fucked going through all the ways i am disappointed, so let's get positive.
How does this 23 win the game?
Well, why did we lose the last one? Possession and territory. Why were they issues? Breakdown protection and catching high kicks. So, we cut down those two areas and the game already looks different. The breakdown might be the more difficult to solve as i believe it's structural as much as anything. But if we can catch our high kicks, and immediately turn the Boks around with the long boots at 14 and 15 (and even 10 this week) then the Boks need to find a different outlet for points.
We did cause the Boks issues when we played direct, and threw a few inside balls. More of that, and less having tight forwards thinking "pass first" rather than being gainline focused.
The Boks scored two tries all day, one from a lucky bounce from a contested kick, and one from a shitty dropped ball. Remember that, it should make us feel better about how we defended. It won't take us much to force them to look for points elsewhere. Then it is a different game.
If we do the same as we did last week, expect the same result. But two little areas on improvement will bring an enormously different game.
I've said this time and time again. We got reamed. Not doubt about it. But for two ridiculous mistakes, on the scoreboard, there wasn't much in it. As bad as we played, the two tries scored were really from errors I would say somewhat unforced. Well, one needed more protection and the other was at the death. For all that fire and brimstone, SA didn't offer much. We still would have lost and deservedly so but if we can cut down that error rate with one or two balls sticking or the bounce of the ball going our way (we need to make our own luck), we're really in the fight. I still expect us to lose but we are still and outside chance.
It's a fools errand looking at things like the bounce of the ball. The facts are that South Africa were in complete control the entire game, and played as much as they needed to.
They simply didn't need to take any risks and backed their defence.
Yes the score blew out to a record margin late, but if anything, that scoreline was extremely flattering to the All Blacks.
You don't get points for being dominant or in control. SA still have to convert control and domination into points and did so on the back of two big errors. Sure they didn't need to takes risks but they also didn't offer anything else on attack.
The point is, if the ABs can minimise those errors that lead to tries and create a bit of luck, they're well in the fight despite how poor they are playing.
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@Kirwan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
sadly that is a predictable if uninspiring set of selections. I didn't see us just rissoling the starting props. The locks weren't changing. I just fucking knew that Frizzell was getting the gig. The change at 10 was coming. No other backline changes were in the wind, despite them shitting the bed in a massive way last week.
I honestly can't be fucked going through all the ways i am disappointed, so let's get positive.
How does this 23 win the game?
Well, why did we lose the last one? Possession and territory. Why were they issues? Breakdown protection and catching high kicks. So, we cut down those two areas and the game already looks different. The breakdown might be the more difficult to solve as i believe it's structural as much as anything. But if we can catch our high kicks, and immediately turn the Boks around with the long boots at 14 and 15 (and even 10 this week) then the Boks need to find a different outlet for points.
We did cause the Boks issues when we played direct, and threw a few inside balls. More of that, and less having tight forwards thinking "pass first" rather than being gainline focused.
The Boks scored two tries all day, one from a lucky bounce from a contested kick, and one from a shitty dropped ball. Remember that, it should make us feel better about how we defended. It won't take us much to force them to look for points elsewhere. Then it is a different game.
If we do the same as we did last week, expect the same result. But two little areas on improvement will bring an enormously different game.
I've said this time and time again. We got reamed. Not doubt about it. But for two ridiculous mistakes, on the scoreboard, there wasn't much in it. As bad as we played, the two tries scored were really from errors I would say somewhat unforced. Well, one needed more protection and the other was at the death. For all that fire and brimstone, SA didn't offer much. We still would have lost and deservedly so but if we can cut down that error rate with one or two balls sticking or the bounce of the ball going our way (we need to make our own luck), we're really in the fight. I still expect us to lose but we are still and outside chance.
It's a fools errand looking at things like the bounce of the ball. The facts are that South Africa were in complete control the entire game, and played as much as they needed to.
They simply didn't need to take any risks and backed their defence.
Yes the score blew out to a record margin late, but if anything, that scoreline was extremely flattering to the All Blacks.
You don't get points for being dominant or in control. SA still have to convert control and domination into points and did so on the back of two big errors. Sure they didn't need to takes risks but they also didn't offer anything else on attack.
The point is, if the ABs can minimise those errors that lead to tries and create a bit of luck, they're well in the fight despite how poor they are playing.
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@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I am rooting for the boy big time now.
Hope he turns into the second coming of Carl Hayman.
1000 upvotes if I could
@voodoo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Steve said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I am rooting for the boy big time now.
Hope he turns into the second coming of Carl Hayman.
1000 upvotes if I could
Dusty as fuck in Cardiff at the moment
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@Kirwan said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
sadly that is a predictable if uninspiring set of selections. I didn't see us just rissoling the starting props. The locks weren't changing. I just fucking knew that Frizzell was getting the gig. The change at 10 was coming. No other backline changes were in the wind, despite them shitting the bed in a massive way last week.
I honestly can't be fucked going through all the ways i am disappointed, so let's get positive.
How does this 23 win the game?
Well, why did we lose the last one? Possession and territory. Why were they issues? Breakdown protection and catching high kicks. So, we cut down those two areas and the game already looks different. The breakdown might be the more difficult to solve as i believe it's structural as much as anything. But if we can catch our high kicks, and immediately turn the Boks around with the long boots at 14 and 15 (and even 10 this week) then the Boks need to find a different outlet for points.
We did cause the Boks issues when we played direct, and threw a few inside balls. More of that, and less having tight forwards thinking "pass first" rather than being gainline focused.
The Boks scored two tries all day, one from a lucky bounce from a contested kick, and one from a shitty dropped ball. Remember that, it should make us feel better about how we defended. It won't take us much to force them to look for points elsewhere. Then it is a different game.
If we do the same as we did last week, expect the same result. But two little areas on improvement will bring an enormously different game.
I've said this time and time again. We got reamed. Not doubt about it. But for two ridiculous mistakes, on the scoreboard, there wasn't much in it. As bad as we played, the two tries scored were really from errors I would say somewhat unforced. Well, one needed more protection and the other was at the death. For all that fire and brimstone, SA didn't offer much. We still would have lost and deservedly so but if we can cut down that error rate with one or two balls sticking or the bounce of the ball going our way (we need to make our own luck), we're really in the fight. I still expect us to lose but we are still and outside chance.
It's a fools errand looking at things like the bounce of the ball. The facts are that South Africa were in complete control the entire game, and played as much as they needed to.
They simply didn't need to take any risks and backed their defence.
Yes the score blew out to a record margin late, but if anything, that scoreline was extremely flattering to the All Blacks.
You don't get points for being dominant or in control. SA still have to convert control and domination into points and did so on the back of two big errors. Sure they didn't need to takes risks but they also didn't offer anything else on attack.
The point is, if the ABs can minimise those errors that lead to tries and create a bit of luck, they're well in the fight despite how poor they are playing.
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
The point is, if the ABs can minimise those errors that lead to tries and create a bit of luck, they're well in the fight despite how poor they are playing.
That and if the ABs can score more points than the Boks should lead to victory I reckon.
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@Joans-Town-Jones how is the first up tackle that was missed on Clark for the NZ try any less of an unforced error than Jordie missing the high ball?
I agree with the idea that we are not scoring as many as we should be and i view it as our single biggest weakness at the moment, but that doesnt change the tries we do score into flukes.
@SidBarret said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Joans-Town-Jones how is the first up tackle that was missed on Clark for the NZ try any less of an unforced error than Jordie missing the high ball?
I agree with the idea that we are not scoring as many as we should be and i view it as our single biggest weakness at the moment, but that doesnt change the tries we do score into flukes.
Yeah not sure I referred to any of the Springboks tries as flukes eh. But one came from a dropped pass and the other from a dropped catch with zero support around.
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
The point is, if the ABs can minimise those errors that lead to tries and create a bit of luck, they're well in the fight despite how poor they are playing.
That and if the ABs can score more points than the Boks should lead to victory I reckon.
@Bones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
The point is, if the ABs can minimise those errors that lead to tries and create a bit of luck, they're well in the fight despite how poor they are playing.
That and if the ABs can score more points than the Boks should lead to victory I reckon.
No shit.
