Springboks v All Blacks 2
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@pakman Yup, may already have been posted but yes Wayne Smith ...
The whiteboard session that proved Ma'a Nonu as an All Blacks great (https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-whiteboard-session-that-proved-maa-nonu-as-an-all-blacks-great/)
Rewatching the game now
... may post later@Mario said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@pakman Yup, may already have been posted but yes Wayne Smith ...
The whiteboard session that proved Ma'a Nonu as an All Blacks great (https://www.rugbypass.com/news/the-whiteboard-session-that-proved-maa-nonu-as-an-all-blacks-great/)
Rewatching the game now
... may post laterLove that story!
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@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chester-Draws said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'm not buying that any of our problems have been fixed, except by accident (BB being sore) and the injection of a good forwards coach (forced onto the head coach).
I agree, there's loads more to work on.
And I don't buy the idea that Ryan has made instant, lasting improvements either - we have to wait and see f they are (hopefully) sustained.
Just a coincidence that his arrival has seen a marked improvement in several aspects of forward play
.Way too early to tell IMHO and as @nostrildamus and others have rightly pointed out, you can't expect instant improvement from a replacement coach. Would love to see it continue, though, against Argentina. They are a different proposition and that would be great to see.
In fairness, the AB forwards had shown the ability to go up the guts in a couple of games (French Nov test being the best example), but this was a step up on anything I've seen from ABs since the Irish QF in RWC 2019.
But they did it at the right time last night, weren't playing catch-up and managed the flow of the game really well. But it was only one game....
If anything, it looks like Ryan has simplified what he wants the AB forwards to do. Reducing the complexity reduces the over thinking, which frees the players to express themselves.
.Maybe, it would be a sensible approach and a quick win..
It looked like the players played with a bit of freedom finally. The pack played like one too. Cohesive and following the plan. It has been a while since they have done that.
And it seemed to me that across the team, the players relaxed a bit more and stopped trying too hard. Heck, they actually looked to be enjoying themselves out there at times last night
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chester-Draws said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'm not buying that any of our problems have been fixed, except by accident (BB being sore) and the injection of a good forwards coach (forced onto the head coach).
I agree, there's loads more to work on.
And I don't buy the idea that Ryan has made instant, lasting improvements either - we have to wait and see f they are (hopefully) sustained.
Just a coincidence that his arrival has seen a marked improvement in several aspects of forward play
.Way too early to tell IMHO and as @nostrildamus and others have rightly pointed out, you can't expect instant improvement from a replacement coach.
Actually I was referring to the head coach-needs some leeway to clean up Foster's mess.
I didn't say: if there is a new forwards coach and the forwards play better than before we shouldn't believe the evidence of our own eyes let alone the confirmation of the senior ABs that the new forwards coach is outstanding.But thanks for bringing me along on your fishing trip.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
He?? Foster is the only selector?
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
He?? Foster is the only selector?
Well, as Foster takes all the blame for picking Pat T & Karl T, I guess he must be.
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Like others on here I thought Frizell had a pretty good game, perhaps his best in black. He has put in some bloody big shifts against the Saders so I can see why they keep going back to him. Hopefully he can build on this effort.
I hate to say it because I really want the guy to succeed, but it was noticeable when Akira came on and took the ball flat footed a couple of times.
@Crazy-Horse Yeah he did. He still managed to get over the advantage line to be fair, but yes, hopefully we see him charging onto the ball in future tests.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
I have only had time to watch the first half so far and can I say our locks were outstanding. SB keeps worrying he has done something stupid and turns to the ref (a fantastic communicator btw) and it is funny to watch, but his energy and frustrating Bok ball was great, and Sam W did some great subtle rips and turnovers.
Sami T now cemented as my fave player especially that slow mo homage to the hippos in tutus in Fantasia's swan lake scene-the slow mo of him spinning and bouncing on his generously sized derriere to get that try is gloriously entertaining. It's all about the bass! Great joints on him too, probably would make a fine powerlifter. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
Well, either Foster makes all the selections or he doesn't. If it's the former he takes the can for the bad selections and the kudos for the good ones (like last night). If it's the latter then the stupid selections aren't all down to him.
Which do you think it is?
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
Well, either Foster makes all the selections or he doesn't. If it's the former he takes the can for the bad selections and the kudos for the good ones (like last night). If it's the latter then the stupid selections aren't all down to him.
Which do you think it is?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
1 Well, either Foster makes all the selections or he doesn't.
2 If it's the former he takes the can for the bad selections and the kudos for the good ones (like last night).
3 If it's the latter then the stupid selections aren't all down to him.
4 Which do you think it is?1 Either/or is not logically necessary, He could be primarily responsible for some of them or some could be team decisions or forced on him.
2 So this doesn't apply. What would be stronger from you would be to say it is unfair to blame him for the bad and not compliment him for the good (especially if we don't know who is responsible for specific selections)
3 Somebody could perhaps go back and match his I comments (I chose/I selected) with stupid/inspired selections...SF seems to be a Foster choice, then again SF played well mostly, this last game.What I can say with some evidence is that the coaching team Foster selected (and seemed very proud of) doesn't seem as strong as the one now. And that doesn't seem to be Foster's preferred choice (but now this is conjecture).
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Forwards were a massive step up. But our scrum was still poor - are the locks not great? Felt like we conceded so many scrum penalties - particulary at the end - and the Bokke just piggypacked over tha tall the way downfield.
Scrum penalties have been a headache for us all year. Not many scrums in the game, but we struggled -- this has to be one of the major workons.
The thing that was awesome was seeing effective cleaners at the ruck. God knows what happened last week - but this week there were players ready to protect the ball, and ball carriers puttin gthe ball back on our side (not tucked into their body).
RM was mixed. Showed some of the qualities he's got, but also some of the downsides (particualrly carrying into big boys in traffic). Anyone see BB's distance at altitude in the kicking too - playing in Joberg is a bit crazy.
Huge result, really impressed. Still think Foster should go, because of the body of work over the last 3 years ... but we could have him to the RWC.
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Forwards were a massive step up. But our scrum was still poor - are the locks not great? Felt like we conceded so many scrum penalties - particulary at the end - and the Bokke just piggypacked over tha tall the way downfield.
Scrum penalties have been a headache for us all year. Not many scrums in the game, but we struggled -- this has to be one of the major workons.
The thing that was awesome was seeing effective cleaners at the ruck. God knows what happened last week - but this week there were players ready to protect the ball, and ball carriers puttin gthe ball back on our side (not tucked into their body).
RM was mixed. Showed some of the qualities he's got, but also some of the downsides (particualrly carrying into big boys in traffic). Anyone see BB's distance at altitude in the kicking too - playing in Joberg is a bit crazy.
Huge result, really impressed. Still think Foster should go, because of the body of work over the last 3 years ... but we could have him to the RWC.
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Forwards were a massive step up. But our scrum was still poor - are the locks not great? Felt like we conceded so many scrum penalties - particulary at the end - and the Bokke just piggypacked over tha tall the way downfield.
Scrum penalties have been a headache for us all year. Not many scrums in the game, but we struggled -- this has to be one of the major workons.
The thing that was awesome was seeing effective cleaners at the ruck. God knows what happened last week - but this week there were players ready to protect the ball, and ball carriers puttin gthe ball back on our side (not tucked into their body).
RM was mixed. Showed some of the qualities he's got, but also some of the downsides (particualrly carrying into big boys in traffic). Anyone see BB's distance at altitude in the kicking too - playing in Joberg is a bit crazy.
Huge result, really impressed. Still think Foster should go, because of the body of work over the last 3 years ... but we could have him to the RWC.
For me, the forwards came from better depth so we're able to assess whether to clean or to look for the offload. They also didn't go too far wide away from their support. Simple change that was very effective. It forced the Boks to commit more players to the breakdown to try to slow the ball down, which made space out wide to attack.
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Forwards were a massive step up. But our scrum was still poor - are the locks not great? Felt like we conceded so many scrum penalties - particulary at the end - and the Bokke just piggypacked over tha tall the way downfield.
Scrum penalties have been a headache for us all year. Not many scrums in the game, but we struggled -- this has to be one of the major workons.
The thing that was awesome was seeing effective cleaners at the ruck. God knows what happened last week - but this week there were players ready to protect the ball, and ball carriers puttin gthe ball back on our side (not tucked into their body).
RM was mixed. Showed some of the qualities he's got, but also some of the downsides (particualrly carrying into big boys in traffic). Anyone see BB's distance at altitude in the kicking too - playing in Joberg is a bit crazy.
Huge result, really impressed. Still think Foster should go, because of the body of work over the last 3 years ... but we could have him to the RWC.
For me, the forwards came from better depth so we're able to assess whether to clean or to look for the offload. They also didn't go too far wide away from their support. Simple change that was very effective. It forced the Boks to commit more players to the breakdown to try to slow the ball down, which made space out wide to attack.
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Forwards were a massive step up. But our scrum was still poor - are the locks not great? Felt like we conceded so many scrum penalties - particulary at the end - and the Bokke just piggypacked over tha tall the way downfield.
Scrum penalties have been a headache for us all year. Not many scrums in the game, but we struggled -- this has to be one of the major workons.
The thing that was awesome was seeing effective cleaners at the ruck. God knows what happened last week - but this week there were players ready to protect the ball, and ball carriers puttin gthe ball back on our side (not tucked into their body).
RM was mixed. Showed some of the qualities he's got, but also some of the downsides (particualrly carrying into big boys in traffic). Anyone see BB's distance at altitude in the kicking too - playing in Joberg is a bit crazy.
Huge result, really impressed. Still think Foster should go, because of the body of work over the last 3 years ... but we could have him to the RWC.
For me, the forwards came from better depth so we're able to assess whether to clean or to look for the offload. They also didn't go too far wide away from their support. Simple change that was very effective. It forced the Boks to commit more players to the breakdown to try to slow the ball down, which made space out wide to attack.
Forwards trying to play with more width early has killed us more often than not since the 2019 game vs England. Nice to see us play a little narrower
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The Breakdown panel are basically ripping Robinson and the rest of the board for their lack of clarity over Foster's future, and their incompetence over club rugby, 7s, the BFs, and Silverlake. I don't disagree with them. Foster may not be the man for the job. But the pressure Robinson has put him under with all of his nothing talk, and the promise of 3 reviews within 9 months including 2 in a couple of months, the CEO should have the stones to fire him or back him
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I'll repeat, ONE of Foster's problems is his ultra-conservative selections.
As I said, Jordie at wing?
Two examples, big Karl and Pat T. Two opportunities to blood young fellas but went back to 2019.
He brought both Va'ai & Josh Lord into the team. Pat T was picked as both of those two were injured or unavailable due to Covid and he reasonably wanted someone with AB experience.
Ultra-conservative and stupid selections. Foster has that sort of dramatic range. If indeed he is doing the selections.
1 Well, either Foster makes all the selections or he doesn't.
2 If it's the former he takes the can for the bad selections and the kudos for the good ones (like last night).
3 If it's the latter then the stupid selections aren't all down to him.
4 Which do you think it is?1 Either/or is not logically necessary, He could be primarily responsible for some of them or some could be team decisions or forced on him.
2 So this doesn't apply. What would be stronger from you would be to say it is unfair to blame him for the bad and not compliment him for the good (especially if we don't know who is responsible for specific selections)
3 Somebody could perhaps go back and match his I comments (I chose/I selected) with stupid/inspired selections...SF seems to be a Foster choice, then again SF played well mostly, this last game.What I can say with some evidence is that the coaching team Foster selected (and seemed very proud of) doesn't seem as strong as the one now. And that doesn't seem to be Foster's preferred choice (but now this is conjecture).
This post is deleted! -
@Frank said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Did Foster select Jason Ryan as his new forwards coach or was it forced on him?
I don't think it matters as long as the improvement continues. Loads of work to do from what we saw last night and I'm still not convinced Cane is back to his best. Thought Akira was good as a sub and added some real impact when needed/
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@Tim said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Can you guys take this to the "Foster" thread, and stop stinking up the match thread, please?
Fair point
