Foster, Robertson etc
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
I knew a few people that backed Foster solely because Hansen said he was good to go.
At the time I argued that leopards don't change their spots, but Hansen's endorsement meant that they believed Fostyer had learned enough as AB assistant.
Hansen has to bear a huge amount of the blame here. He had massive sway, and he used it unwisely.
I'm surprised, everyone I've talked to around the time had realised Hansen had lost his edge, and obviously should have gone as originally planned after the lions series. His judgement was suspect by then, the 'after more than 7 years in the job you're past your peak and is time to move on' effect was very obvious
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
I knew a few people that backed Foster solely because Hansen said he was good to go.
At the time I argued that leopards don't change their spots, but Hansen's endorsement meant that they believed Fostyer had learned enough as AB assistant.
Hansen has to bear a huge amount of the blame here. He had massive sway, and he used it unwisely.
I'm surprised, everyone I've talked to around the time had realised Hansen had lost his edge, and obviously should have gone as originally planned after the lions series. His judgement was suspect by then, the 'after more than 7 years in the job you're past your peak and is time to move on' effect was very obvious
Well, it was recognised here. The average punter still thinks Hansen did a good job.
Unlike us rugby tragics, they watch games with their hearts, not analyse them with their heads.
My mate at work still thinks it was a good idea to renew Foster's contract. Despite me warning him what was about to come. And he was a Chiefs fan in Foster's time, so he knew the history. He just wanted to believe that things were going to get better.
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A couple of points from this article
There’s more than a touch of irony in the All Blacks’ revival and Ian Foster’s battle for survival as coach of the New Zealand team after their gritty win in Johannesburg.
The impressive 35-23 win had the second hand fingerprints of Scott Robertson, the contender to replace Foster, all over it.
Jason Ryan has made a quick impact as forwards coach. That’s Ryan, Robertson’s long-time assistant at the Crusaders and who was on Robertson’s ticket when he went for the coaching job to replace the retiring Steve Hansen in 2019 but lost out to Foster.Mo’unga stood up when called up. His vision is second-to-none. At Ellis Park his goalkicking was solid, his general kicking highly efficient, his decision-making and game management were exceptional, and he knew when to throw caution to the wind to get the All Blacks out of the danger zones with ball-in-hand attacks that made a mockery of what transpired seven days earlier.
This post is deleted! -
looks like one of your NH journalists agrees about Mounga from the article below
"The omission of Richie Mo'unga for the Ireland series, and the first South African test would have baffled those who follow both Super Rugby and the All Blacks on a consistent basis. Up to this point, Foster had kept faith with the mercurial Beauden Barrett. There is no doubt whatsoever surrounding Barrett's ability as a rugby player, but Mo'unga is the better outside-half. The Crusaders playmaker is himself a mercurial talent and is in many ways a carefree spirit but he has a better balance in his game, and can also be pragmatic when needed.
"He's an outrageous talent who can make impossible things happen but it's his decision making, game management, and the balance in his game with regards to when to attack and when to be cautious which has propelled him into the world-class bracket."
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Ya know what I hate?
Every time I log on to The Fern this is the most recently posted in thread, and every fluffybunny is saying the same fucking thing over and fucking over...
Where is the GOM thread?
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@booboo bump
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Foster:
But. Mark Robinson has also showed and is showing himself to be a poor executive. So, I have no idea what will happen. But I have little doubt if the can is kicked down the road, based on hope his new assistants can drag him upwards - rather than his proven body of work - we will probably just be back here in about December, and then if kicked further, again back here in abut about July.
got a work colleague who has a mate who works in a large venture capitalist firm in the UK.
He was telling him they had a big session set up in London where they were presenting an investment plan to Robinson - (had a few interesting ideas such as setting up was a structure where 'marquee' players would be loaned to teams around the world.. )
anyway, this session - full of some pretty senior execs with global involvement in multiple sports.. Robinson turned up 30 mins late and walked in wearing shorts and a t shirt..
he just seems to miss the mark as the leader of a supposed world leading sports organisation - I really feel like there needs to be some overseas experience brought into NZR from maybe another 'larger' sport to help grow the brand. I know that firm mentioned above were pretty scathing of the AB's social media game.. and you certainly wouldn't say their comms team isn't anything more than average..
Time to stop promoting from within and spread the net a bit widerYou got a colleague who has a mate who work in a large venture capitalist firm??
That is the best opening sentence for ignoring a post I have ever read lol.
Bit like my cousin who knows the the friend of the sister of Sam whitelock or someone??? :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:@WillieTheWaiter said in Foster:
But. Mark Robinson has also showed and is showing himself to be a poor executive. So, I have no idea what will happen. But I have little doubt if the can is kicked down the road, based on hope his new assistants can drag him upwards - rather than his proven body of work - we will probably just be back here in about December, and then if kicked further, again back here in abut about July.
got a work colleague who has a mate who works in a large venture capitalist firm in the UK.
He was telling him they had a big session set up in London where they were presenting an investment plan to Robinson - (had a few interesting ideas such as setting up was a structure where 'marquee' players would be loaned to teams around the world.. )
anyway, this session - full of some pretty senior execs with global involvement in multiple sports.. Robinson turned up 30 mins late and walked in wearing shorts and a t shirt..
he just seems to miss the mark as the leader of a supposed world leading sports organisation - I really feel like there needs to be some overseas experience brought into NZR from maybe another 'larger' sport to help grow the brand. I know that firm mentioned above were pretty scathing of the AB's social media game.. and you certainly wouldn't say their comms team isn't anything more than average..
Time to stop promoting from within and spread the net a bit widerYou got a colleague who has a mate who work in a large venture capitalist firm??
That is the best opening sentence for ignoring a post I have ever read lol.
Bit like my cousin who knows the the friend of the sister of Sam whitelock or someone??? :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes: :beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:That said, some of these London VC execs think they're Christmas when they're not even Guy Fawkes. The background makes a bit of difference to the reading.
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Ya know what I hate?
Every time I log on to The Fern this is the most recently posted in thread, and every fluffybunny is saying the same fucking thing over and fucking over...
Where is the GOM thread?
Where is the GOM thread?
Waiting for me to chronicle the continuing path of destruction of the 12 yr-old from hell staying with us for 5 days. The little bastard broke everything including the dining table when he was last here at New Year.
Re-reading the same Foster shit over and over again is a kind of diversion therapy for me.
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At the risk of antagonising one or two of the delicate souls here, the signs are that most of the components of a good coaching team are in fact there.
My every intuition is that Joe Schmidt's analysis was critical in identifying personel changes and gameplan tweaks.
And the cattle turned out to be pretty good once there were plans they could understand! Ryan talked of stripping things back (much as Erasmus did).
Both tests with Ryan/Feek combo we've shaded the Boks at lineouts, which is a feather in cap. Scrums a B, Mauls good Bok1, slight issues with ref Bok2. Breakdown pants Boks1, but on top Boks2.
Attack worked well when we didn't force it. I think Foster is trying to work on passing after rush committed, but unless there is some time actually to catch the ball it's asking too much. Did RM stand a couple of yards deeper?
Only area where jury out for me on weekend was backline defence.
The odd thing about all this is that in normal set ups Schmidt would be head coach and Foster assistant. Their relative stature would make that the natural structure. Instead, because Joe won't travel, we've got the reverse. A bit like South Africa and Erasmus.
My personal view is that, with the possible exception of defense, the components are there and with Schmidt deeply involved, and Foster having the faith of the players, the set up can work. And potentially give us a good shot at RWC.
To trash it now, which would only seem to have ANY merit if the replacement is agreed, holds every prsopect of derailing things just as we may have found our way.
Will be interesting what review makes of defense role, but I hope they back Foster and team, with a clear set of objectives for rest of TRC.
And keep Plan B in back pocket. -
At the risk of antagonising one or two of the delicate souls here, the signs are that most of the components of a good coaching team are in fact there.
My every intuition is that Joe Schmidt's analysis was critical in identifying personel changes and gameplan tweaks.
And the cattle turned out to be pretty good once there were plans they could understand! Ryan talked of stripping things back (much as Erasmus did).
Both tests with Ryan/Feek combo we've shaded the Boks at lineouts, which is a feather in cap. Scrums a B, Mauls good Bok1, slight issues with ref Bok2. Breakdown pants Boks1, but on top Boks2.
Attack worked well when we didn't force it. I think Foster is trying to work on passing after rush committed, but unless there is some time actually to catch the ball it's asking too much. Did RM stand a couple of yards deeper?
Only area where jury out for me on weekend was backline defence.
The odd thing about all this is that in normal set ups Schmidt would be head coach and Foster assistant. Their relative stature would make that the natural structure. Instead, because Joe won't travel, we've got the reverse. A bit like South Africa and Erasmus.
My personal view is that, with the possible exception of defense, the components are there and with Schmidt deeply involved, and Foster having the faith of the players, the set up can work. And potentially give us a good shot at RWC.
To trash it now, which would only seem to have ANY merit if the replacement is agreed, holds every prsopect of derailing things just as we may have found our way.
Will be interesting what review makes of defense role, but I hope they back Foster and team, with a clear set of objectives for rest of TRC.
And keep Plan B in back pocket.Pretty much agree with your analysis particularly as the reality is now we have no real choice but to make the best of the way the cards have fallen. Like you, I've been thinking a Plan B is needed no matter who was coach.
I just hope that what we saw on Saturday continues and we can start to put the instability in the coaching set-up to bed as it's become a positive feedback loop which is really corrosive and not helping at all.
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I think we'll get foster until after the RC, is too short a turn around for anything else. And whilst foster and co focuses on the RC and bled, the board and Robinson should stand down and have a snap board election and find a new CEO before the NH tour
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I think we'll get foster until after the RC, is too short a turn around for anything else. And whilst foster and co focuses on the RC and bled, the board and Robinson should stand down and have a snap board election and find a new CEO before the NH tour
@Machpants said in Foster:
I think we'll get foster until after the RC, is too short a turn around for anything else. And whilst foster and co focuses on the RC and bled, the board and Robinson should stand down and have a snap board election and find a new CEO before the NH tour
I sense that level of instability leading up to RWC2023 would be way too disruptive to the players & coaching staff. There's a need for some deep thinking and changes, but focus on the World Cup first.
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@Machpants said in Foster:
I think we'll get foster until after the RC, is too short a turn around for anything else. And whilst foster and co focuses on the RC and bled, the board and Robinson should stand down and have a snap board election and find a new CEO before the NH tour
I sense that level of instability leading up to RWC2023 would be way too disruptive to the players & coaching staff. There's a need for some deep thinking and changes, but focus on the World Cup first.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
I think we'll get foster until after the RC, is too short a turn around for anything else. And whilst foster and co focuses on the RC and bled, the board and Robinson should stand down and have a snap board election and find a new CEO before the NH tour
I sense that level of instability leading up to RWC2023 would be way too disruptive to the players & coaching staff. There's a need for some deep thinking and changes, but focus on the World Cup first.
It would make sense to endorse this team though to the RWC but also line up Razor and his team early to take over after that. That would provide Razor with lots of time to observe and plan on personnel (on and off field) and how to carry things forward without a clean out.
That would require planning with foresight from NZR though. -
My source has gone to ground and not replying at the moment. Which is unusual for him. So this may mean a change in the coaching structure he told me a couple of weeks ago. I’m seeing him at a function tomorrow night so may get more info then. It sounds like a right cluster f**k though
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
I think we'll get foster until after the RC, is too short a turn around for anything else. And whilst foster and co focuses on the RC and bled, the board and Robinson should stand down and have a snap board election and find a new CEO before the NH tour
I sense that level of instability leading up to RWC2023 would be way too disruptive to the players & coaching staff. There's a need for some deep thinking and changes, but focus on the World Cup first.
It would make sense to endorse this team though to the RWC but also line up Razor and his team early to take over after that. That would provide Razor with lots of time to observe and plan on personnel (on and off field) and how to carry things forward without a clean out.
That would require planning with foresight from NZR though.The Jason Ryan appointment may turn out to be the move they made that saves a few reputations,
If he can get this pack competing against the best , and there is reason to be optimistic about that imo, in a very short time we look better there already ,
I still believe we have no reason to believe we can’t beat anyone
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At the risk of antagonising one or two of the delicate souls here, the signs are that most of the components of a good coaching team are in fact there.
My every intuition is that Joe Schmidt's analysis was critical in identifying personel changes and gameplan tweaks.
And the cattle turned out to be pretty good once there were plans they could understand! Ryan talked of stripping things back (much as Erasmus did).
Both tests with Ryan/Feek combo we've shaded the Boks at lineouts, which is a feather in cap. Scrums a B, Mauls good Bok1, slight issues with ref Bok2. Breakdown pants Boks1, but on top Boks2.
Attack worked well when we didn't force it. I think Foster is trying to work on passing after rush committed, but unless there is some time actually to catch the ball it's asking too much. Did RM stand a couple of yards deeper?
Only area where jury out for me on weekend was backline defence.
The odd thing about all this is that in normal set ups Schmidt would be head coach and Foster assistant. Their relative stature would make that the natural structure. Instead, because Joe won't travel, we've got the reverse. A bit like South Africa and Erasmus.
My personal view is that, with the possible exception of defense, the components are there and with Schmidt deeply involved, and Foster having the faith of the players, the set up can work. And potentially give us a good shot at RWC.
To trash it now, which would only seem to have ANY merit if the replacement is agreed, holds every prsopect of derailing things just as we may have found our way.
Will be interesting what review makes of defense role, but I hope they back Foster and team, with a clear set of objectives for rest of TRC.
And keep Plan B in back pocket.At the risk of antagonising one or two of the delicate souls here, the signs are that most of the components of a good coaching team are in fact there.
My every intuition is that Joe Schmidt's analysis was critical in identifying personel changes and gameplan tweaks.
And the cattle turned out to be pretty good once there were plans they could understand! Ryan talked of stripping things back (much as Erasmus did).
Both tests with Ryan/Feek combo we've shaded the Boks at lineouts, which is a feather in cap. Scrums a B, Mauls good Bok1, slight issues with ref Bok2. Breakdown pants Boks1, but on top Boks2.
Attack worked well when we didn't force it. I think Foster is trying to work on passing after rush committed, but unless there is some time actually to catch the ball it's asking too much. Did RM stand a couple of yards deeper?
Only area where jury out for me on weekend was backline defence.
The odd thing about all this is that in normal set ups Schmidt would be head coach and Foster assistant. Their relative stature would make that the natural structure. Instead, because Joe won't travel, we've got the reverse. A bit like South Africa and Erasmus.
My personal view is that, with the possible exception of defense, the components are there and with Schmidt deeply involved, and Foster having the faith of the players, the set up can work. And potentially give us a good shot at RWC.
To trash it now, which would only seem to have ANY merit if the replacement is agreed, holds every prsopect of derailing things just as we may have found our way.
Will be interesting what review makes of defense role, but I hope they back Foster and team, with a clear set of objectives for rest of TRC.
And keep Plan B in back pocket.That's a very persuasive post that has me, an intense Foster sceptic, wondering.
If one views Foster as an overall man manager with the nuts and bolts of rugby strategy and practicalities more on Schmidt and Ryan, then I could see how it could work. But for this to be true, I'd have to see some consistent and convincing performances against the Argies and Oz. -
Weirdly, this whole thing resembles a kids club team. The coach is out of his depth, but the kids and parents love him. Some other more capable parents step in to help out and right the ship and everyone's happy. Can that work at this level? And if so, for how long?
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At the risk of antagonising one or two of the delicate souls here, the signs are that most of the components of a good coaching team are in fact there.
My every intuition is that Joe Schmidt's analysis was critical in identifying personel changes and gameplan tweaks.
And the cattle turned out to be pretty good once there were plans they could understand! Ryan talked of stripping things back (much as Erasmus did).
Both tests with Ryan/Feek combo we've shaded the Boks at lineouts, which is a feather in cap. Scrums a B, Mauls good Bok1, slight issues with ref Bok2. Breakdown pants Boks1, but on top Boks2.
Attack worked well when we didn't force it. I think Foster is trying to work on passing after rush committed, but unless there is some time actually to catch the ball it's asking too much. Did RM stand a couple of yards deeper?
Only area where jury out for me on weekend was backline defence.
The odd thing about all this is that in normal set ups Schmidt would be head coach and Foster assistant. Their relative stature would make that the natural structure. Instead, because Joe won't travel, we've got the reverse. A bit like South Africa and Erasmus.
My personal view is that, with the possible exception of defense, the components are there and with Schmidt deeply involved, and Foster having the faith of the players, the set up can work. And potentially give us a good shot at RWC.
To trash it now, which would only seem to have ANY merit if the replacement is agreed, holds every prsopect of derailing things just as we may have found our way.
Will be interesting what review makes of defense role, but I hope they back Foster and team, with a clear set of objectives for rest of TRC.
And keep Plan B in back pocket. -
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
And keep Plan B in back pocket.
Yay, more dry powder…
Kalyn Ponga has entered the chat
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
Weirdly, this whole thing resembles a kids club team. The coach is out of his depth, but the kids and parents love him. Some other more capable parents step in to help out and right the ship and everyone's happy. Can that work at this level? And if so, for how long?
the old saying, even a broken clock is right twice every day
I will need to see a few more performances like the weekend, preferably different game plans for different teams before i regain any faith the coaches know what theyre doing
