All Black props
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So....a real state of flux.
Looseheads: de Groot, Bower, Moody, Ross and then a few others like Hodgman and Tamaiti Williams bubbling under. Big Karl surely gone.
Tighthead - even more hard to assess: Lomax, Newell, Ta'avao, Tuúngafasi, Laulala with maybe someone like Jager bubbling under.
Who do we go forward with and who goes to RWC?
@Chris-B said in All Black props:
So....a real state of flux.
Looseheads: de Groot, Bower, Moody, Ross and then a few others like Hodgman and Tamaiti Williams bubbling under. Big Karl surely gone.
Tighthead - even more hard to assess: Lomax, Newell, Ta'avao, Tuúngafasi, Laulala with maybe someone like Jager bubbling under.
Who do we go forward with and who goes to RWC?
Foot on plane:
LH: Moody, Bower, De Groot
TH: Laulala, Ofa, Newell/Lomax
I think De Groot has put distance on Ross and the other LHs. Hodgman great round the field, but scrummaging a known weakness. Tamaiti one for 2026.
Nepo best scrummager, and Ofa OK and best TH around field. Ta'avao in the Hodgman category, and could see him replaced by Newell in EOYT. So between Fletch and Lomax for third spot. Former seems excellent scrummaging technique. Real doubts about Lomax, but good for Maori and seemed OK against Boks except for one scrum in particular. So I'd lean towards Newell...
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I reckon you lot are even more conservative than you accuse Foster of being.
I’d be happy for Moody and Laulala to be phased out although can see value in experience as backups.
Stick with DeGroot and Bower. Ofa is an odd one for me. Has been around forever, occasionally looks the goods but has never even demanded a starting spot through performances. Has has his opportunities through others. Will probably stay around a bit longer.
Newell looks like he is a great investment despite having the strangest body shape since Quasimodo.
I’m hoping that Williams will get his own coming of age moment and finish the selection -
@Chris-B said in All Black props:
So....a real state of flux.
Looseheads: de Groot, Bower, Moody, Ross and then a few others like Hodgman and Tamaiti Williams bubbling under. Big Karl surely gone.
Tighthead - even more hard to assess: Lomax, Newell, Ta'avao, Tuúngafasi, Laulala with maybe someone like Jager bubbling under.
Who do we go forward with and who goes to RWC?
Foot on plane:
LH: Moody, Bower, De Groot
TH: Laulala, Ofa, Newell/Lomax
I think De Groot has put distance on Ross and the other LHs. Hodgman great round the field, but scrummaging a known weakness. Tamaiti one for 2026.
Nepo best scrummager, and Ofa OK and best TH around field. Ta'avao in the Hodgman category, and could see him replaced by Newell in EOYT. So between Fletch and Lomax for third spot. Former seems excellent scrummaging technique. Real doubts about Lomax, but good for Maori and seemed OK against Boks except for one scrum in particular. So I'd lean towards Newell...
@pakman I reckon you're pretty close to the money on the loosehead side - assuming Moody comes back well from injury. He can play a similar sort of role to Tony Woodcock - a solid option if no-one plays well enough to supplant him. Though EdG and Bower look pretty appealing.
I'm a bit more with Crucial on the tighthead side. I'm hoping Newell can pull an Owen Franks and come on in leaps and bounds to become our premier tighthead by 2023 - it is his destiny, Luke!
Like you, I'm a bit iffy about Tyrel, but he certainly did the job at the weekend. Right now, I'd take those two and then one of the other three - and I'm not sure which.
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@pakman I reckon you're pretty close to the money on the loosehead side - assuming Moody comes back well from injury. He can play a similar sort of role to Tony Woodcock - a solid option if no-one plays well enough to supplant him. Though EdG and Bower look pretty appealing.
I'm a bit more with Crucial on the tighthead side. I'm hoping Newell can pull an Owen Franks and come on in leaps and bounds to become our premier tighthead by 2023 - it is his destiny, Luke!
Like you, I'm a bit iffy about Tyrel, but he certainly did the job at the weekend. Right now, I'd take those two and then one of the other three - and I'm not sure which.
@Chris-B said in All Black props:
@pakman I reckon you're pretty close to the money on the loosehead side - assuming Moody comes back well from injury. He can play a similar sort of role to Tony Woodcock - a solid option if no-one plays well enough to supplant him. Though EdG and Bower look pretty appealing.
I'm a bit more with Crucial on the tighthead side. I'm hoping Newell can pull an Owen Franks and come on in leaps and bounds to become our premier tighthead by 2023 - it is his destiny, Luke! Like you, I'm a bit iffy about Tyrel, but he certainly did the job at the weekend. Right now, I'd take those two and then one of the other three - and I'm not sure which.
Sorry to sound like an old fart, but Nepo’s and Ofa’s scrummaging is a step up from Lomax. If Nowell’s progress is enough I suppose he might supplant Nepo, but going into the RWC with France, SA and Ireland on your side of the draw you want to take a top class TH scrummager.
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@Chris-B said in All Black props:
@pakman I reckon you're pretty close to the money on the loosehead side - assuming Moody comes back well from injury. He can play a similar sort of role to Tony Woodcock - a solid option if no-one plays well enough to supplant him. Though EdG and Bower look pretty appealing.
I'm a bit more with Crucial on the tighthead side. I'm hoping Newell can pull an Owen Franks and come on in leaps and bounds to become our premier tighthead by 2023 - it is his destiny, Luke! Like you, I'm a bit iffy about Tyrel, but he certainly did the job at the weekend. Right now, I'd take those two and then one of the other three - and I'm not sure which.
Sorry to sound like an old fart, but Nepo’s and Ofa’s scrummaging is a step up from Lomax. If Nowell’s progress is enough I suppose he might supplant Nepo, but going into the RWC with France, SA and Ireland on your side of the draw you want to take a top class TH scrummager.
@pakman Yeah - I'm still scarred with Lomax's performance against the Tahs.
Be interesting to see how he goes for the rest of the season - the Jaapies made some odd front row selections that bit them on the arse, but Tyrel did well enough against them and he's useful around the paddock.
I've really got Fletch coming great on my wishlist though.
Do you reckon Owen Franks has any part of the conversation - given that he supplanted Tyrel at the end of the Canes season (and presumably Ryan knows him well)?
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@pakman Yeah - I'm still scarred with Lomax's performance against the Tahs.
Be interesting to see how he goes for the rest of the season - the Jaapies made some odd front row selections that bit them on the arse, but Tyrel did well enough against them and he's useful around the paddock.
I've really got Fletch coming great on my wishlist though.
Do you reckon Owen Franks has any part of the conversation - given that he supplanted Tyrel at the end of the Canes season (and presumably Ryan knows him well)?
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@pakman Yeah - I'm still scarred with Lomax's performance against the Tahs.
Be interesting to see how he goes for the rest of the season - the Jaapies made some odd front row selections that bit them on the arse, but Tyrel did well enough against them and he's useful around the paddock.
I've really got Fletch coming great on my wishlist though.
Do you reckon Owen Franks has any part of the conversation - given that he supplanted Tyrel at the end of the Canes season (and presumably Ryan knows him well)?
@Chris-B said in All Black props:
@pakman Yeah - I'm still scarred with Lomax's performance against the Tahs.
Be interesting to see how he goes for the rest of the season - the Jaapies made some odd front row selections that bit them on the arse, but Tyrel did well enough against them and he's useful around the paddock.
I've really got Fletch coming great on my wishlist though.
Do you reckon Owen Franks has any part of the conversation - given that he supplanted Tyrel at the end of the Canes season (and presumably Ryan knows him well)?
Every prop has a Waterloo experience or two and they learn from it. I would think after that game Owen would have taught Lomax how to handle himself in that situation. Since then, Lomax has been pretty impressive.
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The Argies will be a decent test for the props selected for these 2 tests.
We might confirm a few things or some might be found out.@Chris said in All Black props:
The Argies will be a decent test for the props selected for these 2 tests.
We might confirm a few things or some might be found out.Would argue for Newell and Lomax both getting game time. Argie LH 5’9” and a barrel of muscle. Gave Tupou strife at weekend.
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@Chris said in All Black props:
The Argies will be a decent test for the props selected for these 2 tests.
We might confirm a few things or some might be found out.Would argue for Newell and Lomax both getting game time. Argie LH 5’9” and a barrel of muscle. Gave Tupou strife at weekend.
@pakman said in All Black props:
@Chris said in All Black props:
The Argies will be a decent test for the props selected for these 2 tests.
We might confirm a few things or some might be found out.Would argue for Newell and Lomax both getting game time. Argie LH 5’9” and a barrel of muscle. Gave Tupou strife at weekend.
I think those two deserve another chance to build on that SA test.
If they come through well in these 2 tests v Argies they have to be in the WC squad, with an experienced 3rd choice as back up. -
Speaking of props, de Groot and Lomax weren't anymore effective as ball-carriers than Bower and Ta'avao were a week earlier. They also made less tackles by comparison.
What they did do well, especially Lomax, was to clean at rucks to allow phases to be built and pressure to be applied. So we might not need our props to do that job if they are doing other roles well. That said, I don't think Laulala does much now outside of scrummaging so he would be the first experienced TH prop I would phase out.
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Speaking of props, de Groot and Lomax weren't anymore effective as ball-carriers than Bower and Ta'avao were a week earlier. They also made less tackles by comparison.
What they did do well, especially Lomax, was to clean at rucks to allow phases to be built and pressure to be applied. So we might not need our props to do that job if they are doing other roles well. That said, I don't think Laulala does much now outside of scrummaging so he would be the first experienced TH prop I would phase out.
@Bovidae What they also did well - Newell and De Groot especially - is handle and pass well. Newell obviously had that one handling error that lead to Beaudy getting binned but he also threw a great in ball to Jordie the phase before Havili scored at the end.
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@Bovidae What they also did well - Newell and De Groot especially - is handle and pass well. Newell obviously had that one handling error that lead to Beaudy getting binned but he also threw a great in ball to Jordie the phase before Havili scored at the end.
@KiwiMurph Ta'avao is pretty good as a distributor too. The stats say that Bower never passed the ball once in the 1st test.
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@Chris-B said in All Black props:
@pakman I reckon you're pretty close to the money on the loosehead side - assuming Moody comes back well from injury. He can play a similar sort of role to Tony Woodcock - a solid option if no-one plays well enough to supplant him. Though EdG and Bower look pretty appealing.
I'm a bit more with Crucial on the tighthead side. I'm hoping Newell can pull an Owen Franks and come on in leaps and bounds to become our premier tighthead by 2023 - it is his destiny, Luke! Like you, I'm a bit iffy about Tyrel, but he certainly did the job at the weekend. Right now, I'd take those two and then one of the other three - and I'm not sure which.
Sorry to sound like an old fart, but Nepo’s and Ofa’s scrummaging is a step up from Lomax. If Nowell’s progress is enough I suppose he might supplant Nepo, but going into the RWC with France, SA and Ireland on your side of the draw you want to take a top class TH scrummager.
@pakman said in All Black props:
but Nepo’s and Ofa’s scrummaging is a step up from Lomax
They're not exactly rock solid scrummagers to build your team around though. Both still fail at scrum time so they really need to be moved on I reckon.
Edit to say: I still think Tuungafasi has value off the bench though.
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I reckon you lot are even more conservative than you accuse Foster of being.
I’d be happy for Moody and Laulala to be phased out although can see value in experience as backups.
Stick with DeGroot and Bower. Ofa is an odd one for me. Has been around forever, occasionally looks the goods but has never even demanded a starting spot through performances. Has has his opportunities through others. Will probably stay around a bit longer.
Newell looks like he is a great investment despite having the strangest body shape since Quasimodo.
I’m hoping that Williams will get his own coming of age moment and finish the selection@Crucial they’ll give Moody every chance to get fit and ready for the RWC and all going well with his rehab, he’ll be in the squad for whatever tests are before the RWC and then a call will be made after that.
De Groot definitely looks the sort of player you’d go into the trenches with.
Bower has to work on consistency, but has the ingredients.
On the TH side, I think Ta’avao has really improved. Fitness is the issue.
Only one of Ofa or Laulala should go. I don’t think we can carry both. I’d opt for Ofa
That leaves one spot for Newell or Lomax - RC, EOYT and Super form next year will determine it as too early to call.
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@Crucial they’ll give Moody every chance to get fit and ready for the RWC and all going well with his rehab, he’ll be in the squad for whatever tests are before the RWC and then a call will be made after that.
De Groot definitely looks the sort of player you’d go into the trenches with.
Bower has to work on consistency, but has the ingredients.
On the TH side, I think Ta’avao has really improved. Fitness is the issue.
Only one of Ofa or Laulala should go. I don’t think we can carry both. I’d opt for Ofa
That leaves one spot for Newell or Lomax - RC, EOYT and Super form next year will determine it as too early to call.
@ACT-Crusader I am really pleased with the LH trio being Bower, de Groot and Moody for a RWC, that's solid as from what we've seen this year.
Maybe Ofa needs a EdG style rocket up him, when he turns it on he's brilliant, but he turns it on less often than I make an insightful post.
I'm completely sold on Newell, not so much on Ta'avao. If Lomax continues his improvement (as he was doing at the Highlanders and any other time he's not with the canes) he'll overtake him.
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@Crucial they’ll give Moody every chance to get fit and ready for the RWC and all going well with his rehab, he’ll be in the squad for whatever tests are before the RWC and then a call will be made after that.
De Groot definitely looks the sort of player you’d go into the trenches with.
Bower has to work on consistency, but has the ingredients.
On the TH side, I think Ta’avao has really improved. Fitness is the issue.
Only one of Ofa or Laulala should go. I don’t think we can carry both. I’d opt for Ofa
That leaves one spot for Newell or Lomax - RC, EOYT and Super form next year will determine it as too early to call.
@ACT-Crusader
With his mobility, strength and the fact he has another season for further upside and experience - I think Newell should be a certainty for the WCI know everyone has De Groot love, but he still looked pretty bloody immobile to me - but very willing.
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@ACT-Crusader
With his mobility, strength and the fact he has another season for further upside and experience - I think Newell should be a certainty for the WCI know everyone has De Groot love, but he still looked pretty bloody immobile to me - but very willing.
@Frank he’s a decent sized unit, 6’3 120kg+ And still getting used to the speed of test footy. Still very much a work in progress, but there’s an edge there that is very promising.
