Foster, Robertson etc
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@His-Bobness great post. You spoil us.
If you were to have the inclination, have a read up about NZRs handling of womens rugby in the past couple of years. That too has ended up in a trouble shooting coach situation drawing on the old hands of Smith and Henry along with some long overdue additions of female coaching assistance.
What we don’t know is if the knowledge and issues are polished turds in the reporting to the board (Robinson’s doing) or if Robinson isn’t being listened to (board with head in the sand)
I suspect Robinson is an arse coverer based on his public behavior recently. He didn’t implement recommendations in the womens game until shit hit the fan and then did the usual trick of diverting attention by calling for another deeper report.@Crucial Yes, definitely seems to be a governance issue, or lack thereof. Poor old Foster is just the byproduct of it all.
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Reasons for optimism
Hopefully Jason Ryan and Joe Schmidt can continue to turn around the All Blacks a year out from the RWC, in the same way that Brian Lochore arguably did for Laurie's shambolic 1994 All Blacks efforts leading in to the '95 RWC campaign.
Foster might do better as a genial overall coaching manager too.
Reason for pessimism
As per my stuck record, Foster has past history for mid-season Lazarus-like recoveries, only to revert to form at the start of the next season...
Anyway, best to live in hope I suppose...
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Reasons for optimism
Hopefully Jason Ryan and Joe Schmidt can continue to turn around the All Blacks a year out from the RWC, in the same way that Brian Lochore arguably did for Laurie's shambolic 1994 All Blacks efforts leading in to the '95 RWC campaign.
Foster might do better as a genial overall coaching manager too.
Reason for pessimism
As per my stuck record, Foster has past history for mid-season Lazarus-like recoveries, only to revert to form at the start of the next season...
Anyway, best to live in hope I suppose...
@Donsteppa said in Foster:
, in the same way that Brian Lochore arguably did for Laurie's shambolic 1994 All Blacks efforts leading in to the '95 RWC campaign
Forgot about this. Lochore was a great coach. He never really got the credit he deserved for the first RWC win. It sort-of went to Hart and Wylie. At least until neither won when it mattered most
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Reasons for optimism
Hopefully Jason Ryan and Joe Schmidt can continue to turn around the All Blacks a year out from the RWC, in the same way that Brian Lochore arguably did for Laurie's shambolic 1994 All Blacks efforts leading in to the '95 RWC campaign.
Foster might do better as a genial overall coaching manager too.
Reason for pessimism
As per my stuck record, Foster has past history for mid-season Lazarus-like recoveries, only to revert to form at the start of the next season...
Anyway, best to live in hope I suppose...
@Donsteppa said in Foster:
As per my stuck record, Foster has past history for mid-season Lazarus-like recoveries, only to revert to form at the start of the next season...
Or the next Test.
But yeah, We are where we are and can only hope the corner has been turned.
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Excellent. Another 150 pages of this thread.
A quick summary in case you needed it... :
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Foster should never have been appointed in the first place
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We need to sack Foster and appoint Robertson now
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Robertson wouldn't want to take over after Foster
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Foster will never sack his assistants as they are "family"
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Foster has hung his assistants out to dry by getting rid of them
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Foster is fat
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The players say they support Foster but they are just saying that coz (insert preferred reason here)
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It's going to take some time to turn around Foster's mess and it's silly to say new coach will achieve instant results
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Jason Ryan has achieved miracles in two weeks
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Robertson wouldn't want to take over after Foster anyway and Robertson's too good a coach to want to work with Foster as an Assistant
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NZR have completely lost the plot and Foster should never have been appointed in the first place
Classic Fern thread
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
Excellent. Another 150 pages of this thread.
A quick summary in case you needed it... :
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Foster should never have been appointed in the first place
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We need to sack Foster and appoint Robertson now
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Robertson wouldn't want to take over after Foster
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Foster will never sack his assistants as they are "family"
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Foster has hung his assistants out to dry by getting rid of them
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Foster is fat
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The players say they support Foster but they are just saying that coz (insert preferred reason here)
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It's going to take some time to turn around Foster's mess and it's silly to say new coach won't achieve instant results
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Jason Ryan has achieved miracles in two weeks
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Robertson wouldn't want to take over after Foster anyway and Robertson's too good a coach to want to work with Foster as an Assistant
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NZR have completely lost the plot and Foster should never have been appointed in the first place
Classic Fern thread
Thanks, was driving back from up north and heard it on the wireless. I came here as fast as I could but I don’t need to scroll up now !!!!
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Politics and Pragmatism
In retaining Foster and elevating Schmidt to a more strategic role, the NZR has made both a political arse-saving decision and a sensibly pragmatic one. Fundamentally, of course, this was always about fixing up a public relations mess of their own making.
And what a mess. Given the public uproar over the All Blacks’ performances, It seemed almost certain a week ago that Foster was gone for all money. And I have little doubt that Robinson was on hand in South Africa to accept his ‘resignation’ after the Ellis Park test.
But the ABs’ beating the Boks against all the odds in game II mucked up the plan, leaving Robinson to convene that bizarre media conference in Johannesburg at which he said nothing of substance, while conveying what most of us have known all along - that the real villains in this saga are the NZR board themselves - an indecisive, directionless and poorly organised rabble whose original appointment of Foster in the face of better alternatives was both a poor choice and one they have been scrambling to make up for every since.
Like the AB performances themselves, at least up to Ellis Park, the NZR administration has been a shuffling, stumbling, conviction-less shambles. The right hand does not not appear to know what the left hand is doing, there is no boardroom game plan and no-one appears to be effectively in charge. So they have spared themselves further embarrassment with this 14-month workaround.
That’s the politics. What about the pragmatism? Well, that’s the good part. There appear still to be enough adults in this over-crowded kitchen to stop the next 14 months being a complete disaster. Foster remains the titular head of the galley, though much of his original coaching hands have been turfed out of the kitchen and replaced with smarter rugby brains - Ryan and Schmidt - who should be able to bring together the available ingredients to as to serve up a more palatable outcome.
You would hope that now a firm decision has been made - well, at least the appearance of one - this will end the self-generated soap opera and get people focused back on the task at hand. That starts with the Pumas in Christchurch next week and then onto the Wallabies and the retention of the Bledisloe Cup.
As for Razor Robertson, he may feel a sense of relief, not having to be drafted in at the worst possible moment to fix a mess created by somebody else. This gives him clear air to take over the top job next year, should be still be interested. And it gives the players, who were clearly and rightfully sick of the whole charade, a sense of certainty and direction.
If the outcome is Foster being more consultative, more open to new ideas and less dogged in his selections and game plans, the changes will be an improvement. They certainly couldn’t make things any worse. Could they?
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@Donsteppa said in Foster:
, in the same way that Brian Lochore arguably did for Laurie's shambolic 1994 All Blacks efforts leading in to the '95 RWC campaign
Forgot about this. Lochore was a great coach. He never really got the credit he deserved for the first RWC win. It sort-of went to Hart and Wylie. At least until neither won when it mattered most
@Donsteppa said in Foster:
, in the same way that Brian Lochore arguably did for Laurie's shambolic 1994 All Blacks efforts leading in to the '95 RWC campaign
Forgot about this. Lochore was a great coach. He never really got the credit he deserved for the first RWC win. It sort-of went to Hart and Wylie. At least until neither won when it mattered most
NZ Rugby going downhill started around the time Lochore passed.
Maybe Brian's real name was Laura. -
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Excellent. Another 150 pages of this thread.
Nothing to see here, let us move on. NZR has "absolute confidence" in Foster.
We don't
@Machpants said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Excellent. Another 150 pages of this thread.
Nothing to see here, let us move on. NZR has "absolute confidence" in Foster.
We don't
Speech marks speech marks!!
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Reading further down in this at Robinson's quotes it sounds like the Board told him to get in line and that he had fucked up badly reputation wise.
The whole 'we are learning, we get things wrong' is a smokescreen for incompetence because those were all things that he, and his comms advisors, are paid to get right and at this level of appointed should. They aren't some junior execs learning lessons as the climb the corporate tree. -
You think that was bad?
Wait till 2024 and Foster gets re-appointed.
Never happen?
Well the worst AB coach in professional history, by some margin, just got another year. Why not four more?
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
You think that was bad?
Wait till 2024 and Foster gets re-appointed.
Never happen?
Well the worst AB coach in professional history, by some margin, just got another year. Why not four more?
Even if he wins RWC23 Foster would be well advised, like that other Waikato servant Beaver, to ride off into the redemption sunset
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
You think that was bad?
Wait till 2024 and Foster gets re-appointed.
Never happen?
Well the worst AB coach in professional history, by some margin, just got another year. Why not four more?
Even if he wins RWC23 Foster would be well advised, like that other Waikato servant Beaver, to ride off into the redemption sunset
Yeah, but does that sound like Foster?
He'd stay on to "prove" he has the goods. He has form in that regard.
Edit: except, sorry, he has no form in winning anything much. And he won't win a RWC.
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Well, I'm happy with the status quo after that last test. We're surrounding Foz with good people now, so hopefully that works. His selection of assistants has been arse, thats now been removed and he's got good cattle in Ryan and Schmidt.
The players love him, the players wanted to give plums and moar the arse after the last NH tour. Foz being too loyal kept them on. Same as his player selection, so hopefully that will change too.
Robertson, again hopefully, has been given the wink for post RWC, and you've got Ryan as the continuity card that the NZRU gets such a hard on over! And he can take whoever he wants in with him. The new broom sweeping clean.
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Reading further down in this at Robinson's quotes it sounds like the Board told him to get in line and that he had fucked up badly reputation wise.
The whole 'we are learning, we get things wrong' is a smokescreen for incompetence because those were all things that he, and his comms advisors, are paid to get right and at this level of appointed should. They aren't some junior execs learning lessons as the climb the corporate tree.Reading further down in this at Robinson's quotes it sounds like the Board told him to get in line and that he had fucked up badly reputation wise.
The whole 'we are learning, we get things wrong' is a smokescreen for incompetence because those were all things that he, and his comms advisors, are paid to get right and at this level of appointed should. They aren't some junior execs learning lessons as the climb the corporate tree.Well let's hope so. It seemed to me there was serious anger from the players at the way the team & staff had been treated by Robinson and it looked pretty justifiable
Just park that shit and concentrate on improving things rather than digging even bigger holes and make sure any relationship issues between NZR & the players & coaches are sorted.
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Well, I'm happy with the status quo after that last test. We're surrounding Foz with good people now, so hopefully that works. His selection of assistants has been arse, thats now been removed and he's got good cattle in Ryan and Schmidt.
The players love him, the players wanted to give plums and moar the arse after the last NH tour. Foz being too loyal kept them on. Same as his player selection, so hopefully that will change too.
Robertson, again hopefully, has been given the wink for post RWC, and you've got Ryan as the continuity card that the NZRU gets such a hard on over! And he can take whoever he wants in with him. The new broom sweeping clean.
Well, I'm happy with the status quo after that last test. We're surrounding Foz with good people now, so hopefully that works. His selection of assistants has been arse, thats now been removed and he's got good cattle in Ryan and Schmidt.
The players love him, the players wanted to give plums and moar the arse after the last NH tour. Foz being too loyal kept them on. Same as his player selection, so hopefully that will change too.
Robertson, again hopefully, has been given the wink for post RWC, and you've got Ryan as the continuity card that the NZRU gets such a hard on over! And he can take whoever he wants in with him. The new broom sweeping clean.
Who is this new Bartman and when did he learn to type?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
“He has been under a lot of pressure, and I know Foz (Foster) doesn’t want to make it about himself, but I just want everyone to know that all the players have got his back. He’s a great coach, he’s got great coaches beside him, and we back him 100 percent. I hope everyone that reads this backs us because we are going to get it.”
Asked if Foster deserved to stay in charge, Savea’s response: “Like I said, he’s my coach. That’s it.”What are they going to get?
Foster's back I think. The sentiment is really strong and complicates any Foster decision by NZR.
“'That's my coach, I back him 100 per cent'.....He has been under a lot of pressure, and I know Foz (Foster) doesn’t want to make it about himself, but I just want everyone to know that all the players have got his back. He’s a great coach, he’s got great coaches beside him, and we back him 100 percent. I hope everyone that reads this backs us because we are going to get it.”
Ardie is such a nice fella.
I wonder how many of the rest of the squad feel this way ?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
“He has been under a lot of pressure, and I know Foz (Foster) doesn’t want to make it about himself, but I just want everyone to know that all the players have got his back. He’s a great coach, he’s got great coaches beside him, and we back him 100 percent. I hope everyone that reads this backs us because we are going to get it.”
Asked if Foster deserved to stay in charge, Savea’s response: “Like I said, he’s my coach. That’s it.”What are they going to get?
Foster's back I think. The sentiment is really strong and complicates any Foster decision by NZR.
“'That's my coach, I back him 100 per cent'.....He has been under a lot of pressure, and I know Foz (Foster) doesn’t want to make it about himself, but I just want everyone to know that all the players have got his back. He’s a great coach, he’s got great coaches beside him, and we back him 100 percent. I hope everyone that reads this backs us because we are going to get it.”
Ardie is such a nice fella.
I wonder how many of the rest of the squad feel this way ?
And when he gets a new coach, he'll get 100% support too. You're never going to say your current coach is ratshit, doesn't make for a happy relationship!
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We won't lose another test this year.
