All Blacks v Pumas 1
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Also, anything less than absolutely stuffing the Argies at home is completely unacceptable. I'm still really dirty about our first ever loss to them, that was unforgivable shit, Foster is the luckiest man alive to still be in charge after that.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Also, anything less than absolutely stuffing the Argies at home is completely unacceptable.
The Pumas are no longer a push-over, home or away. So a good solid win which builds on Ellis Park will be fine for me.
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@Daffy-Jaffy alot to like about him!
Seems a pretty down to earth 'kiwi bloke', not too overawed or enthused by how things have gone so far, also liked how he said we had taken a couple of small steps forward. and knows there is still work to do.
Saw posts elsewhere here re his relationship with Razor and how this may have strained that, I dont doubt it was pretty tough for him, but ultimately he has his own path, I expect he wanted it to follow with Razor but that wasnt to be, so he is forging ahead down his own path.
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@Crucial probably hardly surprising to not field the same side often as there'd not be often there'd not be an injury from the game before.
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial probably hardly surprising to not field the same side often as there'd not be often there'd not be an injury from the fame before.
Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Yep, you need more detail for it to be meaningful. More than zero changes includes wholesale rotation, changing your 9 and 10 weekly; or having one injury change, or resting one player from an otherwise settled team.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
There’s been a lot of comments about Foster changing the side all the time but it looks like that isn’t an unusual thing.
It's not that he changes all the time, but that some positions switch every game, while others never change at all. So we have no idea who are our starting props, but at the same time no-one gets anything like a decent run at #8 other than Ardie, or fullback other than someone named Barrett.
So we have blooded lots of props, but not as a unit. Meanwhile if Ardie goes down, our #8 will have had almost no time in black.
I would like to see a settled team, but also others getting a run within that settled team.
That is, after all, how most coaches operate.
Well apart from Luke Jacobson and Hoskin Sotutu both starting at 8 last year, and Dmac playing at 15 at least once?
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
There’s been a lot of comments about Foster changing the side all the time but it looks like that isn’t an unusual thing.
It's not that he changes all the time, but that some positions switch every game, while others never change at all. So we have no idea who are our starting props, but at the same time no-one gets anything like a decent run at #8 other than Ardie, or fullback other than someone named Barrett.
So we have blooded lots of props, but not as a unit. Meanwhile if Ardie goes down, our #8 will have had almost no time in black.
I would like to see a settled team, but also others getting a run within that settled team.
That is, after all, how most coaches operate.
Well apart from Luke Jacobson and Hoskin Sotutu both starting at 8 last year, and Dmac playing at 15 at least once?
So you think if Ardie goes down that Sotutu and Jacobson are good to go? After all they got to play last year.
Sometimes Foster is forced to make changes, but in many positions that is the only reason he does so. Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
There’s been a lot of comments about Foster changing the side all the time but it looks like that isn’t an unusual thing.
It's not that he changes all the time, but that some positions switch every game, while others never change at all. So we have no idea who are our starting props, but at the same time no-one gets anything like a decent run at #8 other than Ardie, or fullback other than someone named Barrett.
So we have blooded lots of props, but not as a unit. Meanwhile if Ardie goes down, our #8 will have had almost no time in black.
I would like to see a settled team, but also others getting a run within that settled team.
That is, after all, how most coaches operate.
Well apart from Luke Jacobson and Hoskin Sotutu both starting at 8 last year, and Dmac playing at 15 at least once?
So you think if Ardie goes down that Sotutu and Jacobson are good to go? After all they got to play last year.
Sometimes Foster is forced to make changes, but in many positions that is the only reason he does so. Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
You think Mo'unga started because Foster wanted to give him a run?
I think he started him because Beauden wasn't 100%. Like everyone else.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
There’s been a lot of comments about Foster changing the side all the time but it looks like that isn’t an unusual thing.
It's not that he changes all the time, but that some positions switch every game, while others never change at all. So we have no idea who are our starting props, but at the same time no-one gets anything like a decent run at #8 other than Ardie, or fullback other than someone named Barrett.
So we have blooded lots of props, but not as a unit. Meanwhile if Ardie goes down, our #8 will have had almost no time in black.
I would like to see a settled team, but also others getting a run within that settled team.
That is, after all, how most coaches operate.
Well apart from Luke Jacobson and Hoskin Sotutu both starting at 8 last year, and Dmac playing at 15 at least once?
So you think if Ardie goes down that Sotutu and Jacobson are good to go? After all they got to play last year.
Sometimes Foster is forced to make changes, but in many positions that is the only reason he does so. Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
There’s been a lot of comments about Foster changing the side all the time but it looks like that isn’t an unusual thing.
It's not that he changes all the time, but that some positions switch every game, while others never change at all. So we have no idea who are our starting props, but at the same time no-one gets anything like a decent run at #8 other than Ardie, or fullback other than someone named Barrett.
So we have blooded lots of props, but not as a unit. Meanwhile if Ardie goes down, our #8 will have had almost no time in black.
I would like to see a settled team, but also others getting a run within that settled team.
That is, after all, how most coaches operate.
Well apart from Luke Jacobson and Hoskin Sotutu both starting at 8 last year, and Dmac playing at 15 at least once?
So you think if Ardie goes down that Sotutu and Jacobson are good to go? After all they got to play last year.
Sometimes Foster is forced to make changes, but in many positions that is the only reason he does so. Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
I take it you are in camp so know why RMo is starting Chester. Would you really of wanted Ardie benched (probably consistently our best player) over last couple of years against Irish or Boks? I would suggest you look at bringing in players next week, and probably off bench. Reiko has started every game at 13 too, and rightly so, same as Sam W etc when they fit. Mix and match later if the team is looking to be going ok. Japan , Scotland could see a few changes too.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
You think Mo'unga started because Foster wanted to give him a run?
I think he started him because Beauden wasn't 100%. Like everyone else.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
You think Mo'unga started because Foster wanted to give him a run?
I think he started him because Beauden wasn't 100%. Like everyone else.
Who else thought BB was injured in SA, I haven't heard that before. Who gives you this info?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
You think Mo'unga started because Foster wanted to give him a run?
I think he started him because Beauden wasn't 100%. Like everyone else.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
You think Mo'unga started because Foster wanted to give him a run?
Because he fits the game-plan better and had a cracking game at Ellis Park. He's been picked on his last performance - like the rest of the team - and I'd imagine that BB would have been in the 23 if not for injuries.
You think Mo'unga started because Foster wanted to give him a run?
I think he started him because Beauden wasn't 100%. Like everyone else.If you'd watched the pre-Ellis Park presser, you'd know that's just bollocks.
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@Daffy-Jaffy alot to like about him!
Seems a pretty down to earth 'kiwi bloke', not too overawed or enthused by how things have gone so far, also liked how he said we had taken a couple of small steps forward. and knows there is still work to do.
Saw posts elsewhere here re his relationship with Razor and how this may have strained that, I dont doubt it was pretty tough for him, but ultimately he has his own path, I expect he wanted it to follow with Razor but that wasnt to be, so he is forging ahead down his own path.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Daffy-Jaffy alot to like about him!
Seems a pretty down to earth 'kiwi bloke', not too overawed or enthused by how things have gone so far, also liked how he said we had taken a couple of small steps forward. and knows there is still work to do.
Saw posts elsewhere here re his relationship with Razor and how this may have strained that, I dont doubt it was pretty tough for him, but ultimately he has his own path, I expect he wanted it to follow with Razor but that wasnt to be, so he is forging ahead down his own path.
Why would it have strained his relationship with Razor? Surely Razor would be stoked for him?
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Yeah Frizell's performance is being overhyped. I guess compared to his previous 20 odd truly awful appearances it was a big step up, but still far below the best Akira has shown in black. As already said, the tactics of the forwards under Ryan was the big change from previous tests. The other thing that stood out to me was our backs playing with more depth allowing players like Rieko to thrive with that extra yard of space. Rugby is a pretty simple game, and I'm hopeful Ryan and Schmidt are helping simplify things across the park, whereas the previous coaches were trying a gameplan that was too complicated and putting our players under pressure trying to implement it.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Yeah Frizell's performance is being overhyped. I guess compared to his previous 20 odd truly awful appearances it was a big step up, but still far below the best Akira has shown in black.
Is it? For my money he was fantastic and really stood up when it counted. Not faultless, of course, but absolutely worthy of the praise.
Akira was great against Oz last year but then quieter in the Bok matches. So the fact Frizell shined vs the Boks when Ioane didn’t, is a point worth pondering.
Maybe just different type of players who shine against different teams.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Daffy-Jaffy alot to like about him!
Seems a pretty down to earth 'kiwi bloke', not too overawed or enthused by how things have gone so far, also liked how he said we had taken a couple of small steps forward. and knows there is still work to do.
Saw posts elsewhere here re his relationship with Razor and how this may have strained that, I dont doubt it was pretty tough for him, but ultimately he has his own path, I expect he wanted it to follow with Razor but that wasnt to be, so he is forging ahead down his own path.
Why would it have strained his relationship with Razor? Surely Razor would be stoked for him?
@No-Quarter just repeating what has been said on here from people supposedly in the know.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Also, anything less than absolutely stuffing the Argies at home is completely unacceptable.
The Pumas are no longer a push-over, home or away. So a good solid win which builds on Ellis Park will be fine for me.
@Victor-Meldrew So you have bought into Fozzie bringing NZ rugby down by accepting that every other team is just better? Enough of these low expectations!! They need to win by 20. I am still holding this “nice guy’s” feet to the fire even though only in 1’s and 0’s.
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@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
Frizell did something Akira doesn't do, which is just to get up some speed and run straight. It's unlikely to make huge metreage, in particular against teams such as Boks, but it makes the cleans easier, and with that building the phases.
Akira tends to prop and look for gaps to run into. Almost always makes some metres, and sometimes big yards, but less fitted the pattern for Ellis Park. And more effective once oppo legs are giving out.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
Frizell did something Akira doesn't do, which is just to get up some speed and run straight. It's unlikely to make huge metreage, in particular against teams such as Boks, but it makes the cleans easier, and with that building the phases.
Akira tends to prop and look for gaps to run into. Almost always makes some metres, and sometimes big yards, but less fitted the pattern for Ellis Park. And more effective once oppo legs are giving out.
@pakman said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Frank said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Reverting to Frizzell sure worked at Ellis Park.
The Fern has gone mysteriously quiet.
Because it's not worth arguing about. He played 50 odd minutes and did nothing that Akira hadn't already done in several tests.
Swap the players names, and we'd still be talking about that drop that lead to a try on his own line. Unbelievably poor, and looked gassed.
The problem has always been the tight five, and in that second game they stepped up. Ryan's influence? I hope so. Am sure Akira would have continued his good form, but for whatever reason (probably the head rubs over the years) he's a disliked player.
More disliked interestingly than a player that did this;
"Frizell reportedly sent a message over Instagram to a third party connected to the victims.
“F*** you b**** tell your friend to hide I’m gonna f*** everyone’s up f*** with the wrong guy,” the message reportedly read.
Stuff reports the message was sent after Frizell is understood to have slapped the female victim, who is known to the 15-test All Black, following an exchange of words.
After then trying to leave Vault 21, a popular bar/restaurant in the centre of Dunedin, Frizell is reported to have punched the female victim in the face, giving her a fat upper lip and a split lower lip.
The female victim’s boyfriend is reported to have tried to intervene after the first incident and was then “coward punched” while on his phone outside the bar.
Stuff reports both victims sustained injuries as a result of the physical altercations."
Frizell did something Akira doesn't do, which is just to get up some speed and run straight. It's unlikely to make huge metreage, in particular against teams such as Boks, but it makes the cleans easier, and with that building the phases.
Akira tends to prop and look for gaps to run into. Almost always makes some metres, and sometimes big yards, but less fitted the pattern for Ellis Park. And more effective once oppo legs are giving out.
So Akira has an ability to switch from metric to imperial on the fly? I’d like to see Frizell try that!
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Back to the game, for those pointing at the selections as the answer to the turnaround, I would say these three factors were more important that who played;
- Ryan's simplifcation of the forward roles and changing their focus
- The ref not allowing the Boks to rest as much (team tactics to keep the ball as well and move them around)
- JB taking more of the higher kicks (good pressure on the kicker and good skill execution)
BB at 10 and Akira at 6 and QT at 12 we get the same result off the back of that forward performance too.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Back to the game, for those pointing at the selections as the answer to the turnaround, I would say these three factors were more important that who played;
- Ryan's simplifcation of the forward roles and changing their focus
- The ref not allowing the Boks to rest as much (team tactics to keep the ball as well and move them around)
- JB taking more of the higher kicks (good pressure on the kicker and good skill execution)
BB at 10 and Akira at 6 and QT at 12 we get the same result off the back of that forward performance too.
That's conjecture. No doubt some things would have gone as well, but others not.
One thing which I really liked was Bok kick offs being returned by Richie to around halfway. BB doesn't seem reliable in that role.
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Frizell played well, especially with his link game, but I'm not convinced by his defence. He gave away two maul penalties and made no impact there.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord?
Well it was completely different from the regular NZ depth he stood at for the Blues. It wasn't just his depth, it was the alignment further out too
I'm hoping it was an innovation from Mooar and has disappeared with his job
To me that had Fozzie’s fingerprints all over it and is what we saw at the Chiefs and Waikato.
My concern with Beaudie’s form is the lack of variation and his kicking. For me that doesn’t have much to do with tactics or gameplan (or lack of). He’s our second most experienced back in the squad, so has seen it all and has been very effective in reading the defence. Even his Blues form this year was very up and down in my view.
He’s one of my favourite rugby players, so it’s hard seeing him not being as effective or at the very least play to unleash our outsides.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
surely the coaches would be telling him to stand deeper if he's standing flat on his own accord?
Well it was completely different from the regular NZ depth he stood at for the Blues. It wasn't just his depth, it was the alignment further out too
I'm hoping it was an innovation from Mooar and has disappeared with his job
To me that had Fozzie’s fingerprints all over it and is what we saw at the Chiefs and Waikato.
My concern with Beaudie’s form is the lack of variation and his kicking. For me that doesn’t have much to do with tactics or gameplan (or lack of). He’s our second most experienced back in the squad, so has seen it all and has been very effective in reading the defence. Even his Blues form this year was very up and down in my view.
He’s one of my favourite rugby players, so it’s hard seeing him not being as effective or at the very least play to unleash our outsides.
As a Blues fan I far preferred Perofeta as the closer.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
You think Mo'unga started because Foster wanted to give him a run?
I think he started him because Beauden wasn't 100%. Like everyone else.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Mo'unga is not starting because Foster wants to give him a go. He's starting because the golden one is not fit -- no other reason.
And here's me thinking it was Mo'unga starting in the 10 shirt at Ellis Park with BB on the bench.
You think Mo'unga started because Foster wanted to give him a run?
I think he started him because Beauden wasn't 100%. Like everyone else.
Or could Foster be more of a BB fan than Joe?
