All Black pack

Kruse

@nzzp said in All Black pack:

The crappy game plan and selections are on him,

This is Foster right through from his Chiefs days.
And he is coaching and selecting the AB's ,seems to me not the right choice and nothing will change while he is there.

Not a single word about the "All Black pack" in that post.
There's a thread for bitching about Foster, where the same old arguments can be re-hashed ad-nauseum.

Duluth

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

Set piece much improved. But outlayed in last 30 big time.

The last 35mins

The drop in the quality of work around the field from the starting front row to that Crusaders front row was massive. The clean outs went to shit again.. a problem the AB tight five has had for a few years now (back to the tail end of Hansen)

A lot of that is the enormous gap in quality between Samisoni and Taylor. However I think a few people need to pump the breaks on the hype around the newer props.

Kruse

@Duluth said in All Black pack:

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

Set piece much improved. But outlayed in last 30 big time.

The last 35mins

The drop in the quality of work around the field from the starting front row to that Crusaders front row was massive. The clean outs went to shit again.. a problem the AB tight five has had for a few years now (back to the tail end of Hansen)

A lot of that is the enormous gap in quality between Samisoni and Taylor. However I think a few people need to pump the breaks on the hype around the newer props.

"brakes" - but yeah, agreed... the hype-train on the newer props seems massively over-done on very little evidence. Optimism, I guess. I certainly HOPE they're as good as people seem to think/hope.
But... when I accept the ABs head coach role, and make all decisions based on a read-through of the Fern... I'd like to think there's some realistic suggestions and expectations.

BartMan

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

nostrildamus

@Tim said in All Black pack:

Oh hey, the ~~best~~ fastest-driving player in the country (Papalii) can't be played because the coach loves the worst.

He hasn't played enough at AB level to give the "best player in the country" accolade IMHO. And certainly not at 6.

Crucial

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

I think maybe his Blues supporters may finally be seeing that. Did he come on last night just so he could fall over?
When you are competing for a spot with someone that apparently has more drive than you at least you can make an effort when carrying FFS. He was carrying like George Bridge.
Waste of good fotballing talent because either no one tells him, or he doesn't listen, that he isn't the strongest kid in the playground any more.
I'd love to see the guy in the team so when all the hard work is done an opportunity appears to show the talent but he doesn't want to contribute to the hard work.
Sotutu isn't much better judging by his NPC time. Lots of flash and dash but not enough bash and smash.

KiwiMurph

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

Sotutu isn't much better judging by his NPC time. Lots of flash and dash but not enough bash and smash.

I wouldn't overreact to his first game in 2 months. He showed plenty of bash and smash in Super Rugby.

MN5

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

I think maybe his Blues supporters may finally be seeing that. Did he come on last night just so he could fall over?
When you are competing for a spot with someone that apparently has more drive than you at least you can make an effort when carrying FFS. He was carrying like George Bridge.
Waste of good fotballing talent because either no one tells him, or he doesn't listen, that he isn't the strongest kid in the playground any more.
I'd love to see the guy in the team so when all the hard work is done an opportunity appears to show the talent but he doesn't want to contribute to the hard work.
Sotutu isn't much better judging by his NPC time. Lots of flash and dash but not enough bash and smash.

That’s asking an awful lot of some of them, steady on.

Crucial

@KiwiMurph said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

Sotutu isn't much better judging by his NPC time. Lots of flash and dash but not enough bash and smash.

I wouldn't overreact to his first game in 2 months. He showed plenty of bash and smash in Super Rugby.

Served the Blues well when it got to the big game didn't it?

antipodean

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

I think maybe his Blues supporters may finally be seeing that. Did he come on last night just so he could fall over?
When you are competing for a spot with someone that apparently has more drive than you at least you can make an effort when carrying FFS. He was carrying like George Bridge.
Waste of good fotballing talent because either no one tells him, or he doesn't listen, that he isn't the strongest kid in the playground any more.
I'd love to see the guy in the team so when all the hard work is done an opportunity appears to show the talent but he doesn't want to contribute to the hard work.

In 14 minutes he carried the ball seven times. A carry every two minutes compared to Frizell's every eight and Savea's every seven. He also made more tackles per minute which would suggest his workrate isn't an issue. By the time he came on Argentina had a lead and were defending for the game.

Crucial

@antipodean said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

I think maybe his Blues supporters may finally be seeing that. Did he come on last night just so he could fall over?
When you are competing for a spot with someone that apparently has more drive than you at least you can make an effort when carrying FFS. He was carrying like George Bridge.
Waste of good fotballing talent because either no one tells him, or he doesn't listen, that he isn't the strongest kid in the playground any more.
I'd love to see the guy in the team so when all the hard work is done an opportunity appears to show the talent but he doesn't want to contribute to the hard work.

In 14 minutes he carried the ball seven times. A carry every two minutes compared to Frizell's every eight and Savea's every seven. He also made more tackles per minute which would suggest his workrate isn't an issue. By the time he came on Argentina had a lead and were defending for the game.

I'd suggest that is the role of the fresh legs forward. To do the carrying for the other more tired players. They would be looking for him every time.
What did he do with all those carries except an Owen Franks impression?

antipodean

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@antipodean said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

I think maybe his Blues supporters may finally be seeing that. Did he come on last night just so he could fall over?
When you are competing for a spot with someone that apparently has more drive than you at least you can make an effort when carrying FFS. He was carrying like George Bridge.
Waste of good fotballing talent because either no one tells him, or he doesn't listen, that he isn't the strongest kid in the playground any more.
I'd love to see the guy in the team so when all the hard work is done an opportunity appears to show the talent but he doesn't want to contribute to the hard work.

In 14 minutes he carried the ball seven times. A carry every two minutes compared to Frizell's every eight and Savea's every seven. He also made more tackles per minute which would suggest his workrate isn't an issue. By the time he came on Argentina had a lead and were defending for the game.

I'd suggest that is the role of the fresh legs forward. To do the carrying for the other more tired players. They would be looking for him every time.
What did he do with all those carries except an Owen Franks impression?

Made metres. More per carry than Newell, Cane, Groot, Whitelock. Christ, Frizell made more than our #8.

Put another way, how many carries and metres should he have made to satisfy you?

Crucial

@antipodean said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@antipodean said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

I think maybe his Blues supporters may finally be seeing that. Did he come on last night just so he could fall over?
When you are competing for a spot with someone that apparently has more drive than you at least you can make an effort when carrying FFS. He was carrying like George Bridge.
Waste of good fotballing talent because either no one tells him, or he doesn't listen, that he isn't the strongest kid in the playground any more.
I'd love to see the guy in the team so when all the hard work is done an opportunity appears to show the talent but he doesn't want to contribute to the hard work.

In 14 minutes he carried the ball seven times. A carry every two minutes compared to Frizell's every eight and Savea's every seven. He also made more tackles per minute which would suggest his workrate isn't an issue. By the time he came on Argentina had a lead and were defending for the game.

I'd suggest that is the role of the fresh legs forward. To do the carrying for the other more tired players. They would be looking for him every time.
What did he do with all those carries except an Owen Franks impression?

Made metres. More per carry than Newell, Cane, Groot, Whitelock. Christ, Frizell made more than our #8.

Put another way, how many carries and metres should he have made to satisfy you?

If that's the case then I take that back. I don't have the stats but when watching I saw quite a number of very ineffective carries. How do his metres per carry compare to Frizzell? I guess I could bear watching again to see whether the stats tell the story.

KiwiMurph

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@KiwiMurph said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

Sotutu isn't much better judging by his NPC time. Lots of flash and dash but not enough bash and smash.

I wouldn't overreact to his first game in 2 months. He showed plenty of bash and smash in Super Rugby.

Served the Blues well when it got to the big game didn't it?

Are you serious? Sotutu was the best player in the Blues pack in the final by a country mile. He really stood up in a pack that got absolutely smashed.

nzzp

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@KiwiMurph said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

Sotutu isn't much better judging by his NPC time. Lots of flash and dash but not enough bash and smash.

I wouldn't overreact to his first game in 2 months. He showed plenty of bash and smash in Super Rugby.

Served the Blues well when it got to the big game didn't it?

did you watch him in the final? The defensive work was massive - feeding so much possession to the Crusaders, and only being down by a few going into the last few minutes was ridiculous.

And what about the big game down there in Christchurch that the Blues won. Seems a lot of folk are hindsight champions based on their views on one game. Kind of like judging Foster on Ellis Park and ignoring the rest of the body of work

voodoo

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@antipodean said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@antipodean said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

I think maybe his Blues supporters may finally be seeing that. Did he come on last night just so he could fall over?
When you are competing for a spot with someone that apparently has more drive than you at least you can make an effort when carrying FFS. He was carrying like George Bridge.
Waste of good fotballing talent because either no one tells him, or he doesn't listen, that he isn't the strongest kid in the playground any more.
I'd love to see the guy in the team so when all the hard work is done an opportunity appears to show the talent but he doesn't want to contribute to the hard work.

In 14 minutes he carried the ball seven times. A carry every two minutes compared to Frizell's every eight and Savea's every seven. He also made more tackles per minute which would suggest his workrate isn't an issue. By the time he came on Argentina had a lead and were defending for the game.

I'd suggest that is the role of the fresh legs forward. To do the carrying for the other more tired players. They would be looking for him every time.
What did he do with all those carries except an Owen Franks impression?

Made metres. More per carry than Newell, Cane, Groot, Whitelock. Christ, Frizell made more than our #8.

Put another way, how many carries and metres should he have made to satisfy you?

If that's the case then I take that back. I don't have the stats but when watching I saw quite a number of very ineffective carries. How do his metres per carry compare to Frizzell? I guess I could bear watching again to see whether the stats tell the story.

https://www.espn.com/rugby/match?gameId=595487&league=244293
via @ESPN App http://espn.com/app

I haven't tried to verify these for accuracy. But even allowing for a massive error rate, they're pretty damming on Akira (7 runs for 6 metres), Cane (4 for 2), Whitelock(7-1), Taylor, (4-4), Newell (5-2), Lomax (2-2)

And to my point earlier, A Smith - zero runs for (you guessed it!) zero metres.

Edit - A Smith last game against SA, 2 runs for 5 metres. The week before, zero from zero again.

Damming!

nzzp

@voodoo thanks for the link.

Looking at the graphics below, it beggars belief we lost

MN5

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@antipodean said in All Black pack:

@Crucial said in All Black pack:

@BartMan said in All Black pack:

@sparky said in All Black pack:

Front five apart from Taylor okay. Vaii needs more gametime.

Backrow not working. Ardie empties the tank every week but he's not a natural 8. Flankers get outplayed by the opposition in most games.

Starting Back row: Akira Ioane, Papali'i, Sotutu. Ardie off the bench.

Won't happen though because Foster has his favourites.

I would not have Akira in the team, your perfect flat track bully. So I'd go Papali'i at 6, as he's more than big enough for that spot physicallly. Ardi at 7, his natural position, and a real 8 at 8, would go with Grace, but he's broken and not in squad, so that leaves Sotutu, give him plenty of game time. Sam Cane joins Cody Taylor in the needs a huge super season to be back in black.

I think maybe his Blues supporters may finally be seeing that. Did he come on last night just so he could fall over?
When you are competing for a spot with someone that apparently has more drive than you at least you can make an effort when carrying FFS. He was carrying like George Bridge.
Waste of good fotballing talent because either no one tells him, or he doesn't listen, that he isn't the strongest kid in the playground any more.
I'd love to see the guy in the team so when all the hard work is done an opportunity appears to show the talent but he doesn't want to contribute to the hard work.

In 14 minutes he carried the ball seven times. A carry every two minutes compared to Frizell's every eight and Savea's every seven. He also made more tackles per minute which would suggest his workrate isn't an issue. By the time he came on Argentina had a lead and were defending for the game.

I'd suggest that is the role of the fresh legs forward. To do the carrying for the other more tired players. They would be looking for him every time.
What did he do with all those carries except an Owen Franks impression?

You need to move with the times. These days it’s called doing a “Nepo Laulala impression”

voodoo

@nzzp said in All Black pack:

@voodoo thanks for the link.

Looking at the graphics below, it beggars belief we lost

Remember when the stats like that used to be reversed and we'd have still won by 10?

nzzp

@voodoo said in All Black pack:

Remember when the stats like that used to be reversed and we'd have still win by 10?

Yes ... by ripping teams apart on the counterattack and scoring tries.

I was giong to post about the graphic 'but then I think of Bokke 1, where we got 3 points in 78 minutes, and am no longer surprised'.

Something is wrong with this team.

The Silver Fern

All Black pack