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nostrildamus

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance. J

Sorry, great player, but that is a big call. All 3 positions by some distance-really?!

ACT Crusader

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance.

He's also our best 2nd 5, and tall enough to play lock too.

antipodean

@nostrildamus said in All Black backline:

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance. J

Sorry, great player, but that is a big call. All 3 positions by some distance-really?!

He's just the bestest if you want a loose forward that inspects rucks.

nostrildamus

@antipodean said in All Black backline:

@nostrildamus said in All Black backline:

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance. J

Sorry, great player, but that is a big call. All 3 positions by some distance-really?!

He's just the bestest if you want a loose forward that inspects rucks.

You've just set off all the Akira haters!
I vaguely recall Ardie at 6 for ABs and not really standing out.

reprobate

He's no Kremer.

Yeahtheboys

2027 world cup team

Norris
Taukeiaho
Newell
S. Barrett
Vaai
Savea
Papalii
Sotutu
Christie
Mounga
Reiko
Tupaea
ALB
Jordan
Jordie

Bench

Aumua / Thompson
De Groot
Lomax
Vaai
Grace
Fakatava / Roigard / Hotham / Ratima / Roe?
Dmac
RTS

Yeahtheboys

@nostrildamus I do love watching the world crash and burn

ACT Crusader

@RoninWC my only concern with what you've said is that you are calling out Goodhue's distribution, and that's fine, but you are calling for QT to be given more playing time when his distribution is probably worse based on both AB and SR form. So either he is picked because he is a project and we are in hope that he has a drastic change to that area.

RTS is an unknown quantity and whilst I don't mind his running game, I'd prefer a ball playing 2nd 5. Not too many of those other than the guy with the AB 15 on his back....

I agree that Ioane needs to be persisted with at 13.

MN5

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

@nostrildamus I do love watching the world crash and burn

It’s always great to grab the popcorn and sit and watch when someone dares criticise Akira Ioane on here.

Chris B.

@Yeahtheboys Right now, I'd agree with all your starting eight except I'd move Ardie to 7, and play Sotutu at 8.

Even though Tyrel Lomax is one of my Mako boys, I've still got question marks about him - if he's our no. 1 tighthead I'm a bit worried.

RoninWC

@ACT-Crusader said in All Black backline:

@RoninWC my only concern with what you've said is that you are calling out Goodhue's distribution, and that's fine, but you are calling for QT to be given more playing time when his distribution is probably worse based on both AB and SR form. So either he is picked because he is a project and we are in hope that he has a drastic change to that area.

RTS is an unknown quantity and whilst I don't mind his running game, I'd prefer a ball playing 2nd 5. Not too many of those other than the guy with the AB 15 on his back....

I agree that Ioane needs to be persisted with at 13.

@ACT-Crusader let me start by saying, in terms of Goodhue, I said he's a good (but not great) 13. Secondly, he's not even playing so in reality, doesn't even enter into the conversation at the moment.

I would say that most people don't think him a good 12 at all and shouldn't even enter the conversation around 12.

My calls for QT and RTS to get more of a run is because in my view, David Havili has been an abject failure at 12 and given we have 2 other options within the squad who are 12's, we should be giving them a go.

And no, that doesn't mean subbing off R. Ioane and bringing on QT with DH which makes absolutely no sense at all.

But Foster has his favourites and cannot see past his nose when making selections and is probably the worst maker of substitutions I've ever seen in the game of Rugby.

Another point, if David Havili wasn't/isn't a project at 12 then I don't know what a project is. QT couldn't do any worse and has more upside being that he actually seems to be able to bend and break a line when tucking the ball under his arm.

I also disagree somewhat with your statement that QT isn't a distributor. Based on his Super Rugby form, he can distribute quite well but yes, he often takes the option to hit the ball up.

From what I've seen of the AB's over the past 2 years, we keep chucking the ball wide hoping that one of our wings or RI will make a "x-factor" break.

Maybe having a 12 that's prepared to truck it up into contact instead of shuffling the ball sideways and backwards or as DH seems want to do, make massive cut out passes to no one will help keep defences more honest in close and allow our X Factor players out wide more room.

Finally with respect to our issues at 12, I think that RTS has shown enough and is a good enough athlete to be given a shot. Again, I can't see how he could be any worse than David Havili at 12.

Kiwiwomble

@reprobate said in All Black backline:

For all the talk of Goodhue being too slow, how many times has he actually been skinned on the outside? Ioane on the other hand contributes to loads of defensive misalignments and miscommunications, and that costs territory and tries regularly. He's an excellent tackler, and his speed gets him out of trouble a lot, but he's a big contributor to our poor defensive system. He's also one of the too many players we have who contribute multiple turnovers to the opposition every game. And on attack he blows tries by ignoring support, runs his outsides out of space, and has slow hands.
He's a great runner ball in hand, sensational in fact. Wing.

Doesn't really matter how much better Goodhue is anyway though, because he's forever injured.

i couldn't tell you....mainly because i cant remember the last time he played for the AB's...starting to wonder if he's just a myth

mariner4life

can some one articulate what the collective Fern minds mean by "distribution" because it appears to be a word that gets thrown around a fucking lot with very little to back it up except vibe and mabo

Kiwiwomble

@mariner4life

shovel shit = passing it outside regardless of if the receiver is in a worse position, ie hospital pass, see BB

Distribution = variety of passes (short/long/skip/second line) putting people in space / gaps

mariner4life

@Kiwiwomble said in All Black backline:

@mariner4life

shovel shit = passing it outside regardless of if the receiver is in a worse position, ie hospital pass, see BB

Distribution = variety of passes (short/long/skip/second line) putting people in space / gaps

right.

so the 13 is judged almost exclusively in their short/long/skip/2nd line passing and his ability to put people in to space/gaps? Because all i fucking hear about R Ioane is "his distribution"

completely ignoring the rest of the shape, and what he has happening in front and outside of him (and what he has been served up from 10/12)

It's a bullshit argument to try and find a reason to rissole a bloke, made more bullshit by any potential replacements having even worse flaws (or can't get on the field).

Kiwiwomble

@mariner4life i was only a front rower but my feeling was things like distribution or playmaking became less important the further down the backline, you go from creating to finishing. so a 13 might need to make the final pass to the wing or back to a cheeky 9 on his shoulder but generally im looking for him to break the line with ball in hand or receiving from 12 the that has just broken the line

ie im less worried about RI's distribution and more worried about our 10 and 12 's distribution...hell even jordie from the back isn't bringing it forward and creating as much as i would like

mariner4life

As far as i can see (and this is qualified by the fact i'm definitely a forward guy) our backline looks like poos because

we are wedded to being as flat as fuck. from 10 out
We don't have a game organiser at 10
We don't have an anything at 12
We are wedded to not only being flat, but very wide, meaning our wings are stationed on the touchline.
We don't know how to bring our outside backs in to play.

I don't think the personnel are as good as the coaches seem to. And i think our entire formation fucking sucks.
If you gave Ioane, Jordan, Clarke and even Jordie just a little more depth and a little more time, they are going to give defences kittens. But we give them nothing.
SA Game 2 we looked shit hot out wider because of a noticable increase in our starting depth. R Ioane was over the gain line constantly, because he got the ball at pace with a bit more than a microsecond before the defender arrived.

Who we pick means far less than where they start each phase from IMO.

Kiwiwomble

@mariner4life the fact i feel we've seen them try and crash ball with players like havili and bridge says a lot, definitely not aligning what little gameplan we have to the players we have

reprobate

Rieko still runs like a winger. His first thought is evading the tackle himself rather than holding the space and putting someone into it. He runs his outsides out of space looking for the outside break. His passing isn't all that accurate, and when quick hands are called for, he often doesn't have them. We aren't blessed with a whole lot of options right now, but it is still a contrast from Goodhue or even Tupaea or Nankivell.

He's got massive strengths, and the upside of all that pace is very tempting if he can continue to improve the other aspects. He's also got big weaknesses in defence and just general error rate.

The basic problem is not the player, it's that we'll never see him at his best in this disfunctional team pattern: we don't use his pace or give him space, so all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game.

mariner4life

@reprobate said in All Black backline:

all we are left with is poor defensive communication and a couple of turnovers per game

all? gee what a shit player

The Silver Fern

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