Foster, Robertson etc
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@Chester-Draws I'm not really interested in debating the hyperbolic statements you make. Nobody is in "raptures" after beating Argentina. But if you can't accept that a 50 point drubbing in the wet with just 3 handling errors all game is impressive, then there's no pleasing you. In fact even if we won the RWC I imagine you still won't be happy because it would paint Foster as a decent coach when that's surely not the case.
@No-Quarter said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws I'm not really interested in debating the hyperbolic statements you make. Nobody is in "raptures" after beating Argentina. But if you can't accept that a 50 point drubbing in the wet with just 3 handling errors all game is impressive, then there's no pleasing you. In fact even if we won the RWC I imagine you still won't be happy because it would paint Foster as a decent coach when that's surely not the case.
Oh yes, there are people in raptures. I woke up to "World media hail All Blacks' 'ruthless mindset' in 50-point win over Argentina". Mostly not on the Fern, though, and some in the media seem to have learned caution.
But I have been burnt by Foster enough that I no longer give him the benefit of the doubt that I would with others. I didn't think the corner had been turned after Ellis Park, which meant that I wasn't particularly annoyed by last week. And I don't think the corner has been turned now either.
If I'm wrong, and the coaches have sorted out the issues bedeviling us, rather than just getting an opponent off their game, then I will enjoy our games because we will be playing good rugby. If, as I suspect, no major learnings have occurred, then I won't be going to bed in a rage.
Edit: And if we win the RWC I will be pleased. For the players, and especially with the new coaches. Just as the Saffers will have enjoyed winning just after their coaching change to put in Erasmus.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
The game plan was better. We played much better. Just need to back up next game to suggest this is real improvement and not a one off response
Both bleds need this level to make me feel maybe a corner has been turned under foster.
First can we beat a wounded Oz after a good performance, playing away?
Then, following that victory, can we keep our standards when complacency will be strong, Eden park hoodoo, just best them last week, etc.3 good performances.
Even GH and Shag said 3 top performances on the trot was very difficult in the pro era. I want to see continued refinement of the game plan and execution
Totally, thus 3 good performances. Enough to win, cos it's only Oz
That was a great performance, so 1 out of 3 good or better, so farI think we are generally in agreement. It's about the style of play as much as the result. A sneaky win playing helter skelter rugby but generally playing poorly will be considered a step back
Last night was helter-skelter. Things stuck but it will be very hard to successfully replicate.
I can't agree that last night was helter skelter.
Direct in the forwards
Smart kicking in behind in the wet with a strong chase.
More linespeed in defence and counter rucking.
They chanced their arm when under advantage but when you're under advatange that's fine.
@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
The game plan was better. We played much better. Just need to back up next game to suggest this is real improvement and not a one off response
Both bleds need this level to make me feel maybe a corner has been turned under foster.
First can we beat a wounded Oz after a good performance, playing away?
Then, following that victory, can we keep our standards when complacency will be strong, Eden park hoodoo, just best them last week, etc.3 good performances.
Even GH and Shag said 3 top performances on the trot was very difficult in the pro era. I want to see continued refinement of the game plan and execution
Totally, thus 3 good performances. Enough to win, cos it's only Oz
That was a great performance, so 1 out of 3 good or better, so farI think we are generally in agreement. It's about the style of play as much as the result. A sneaky win playing helter skelter rugby but generally playing poorly will be considered a step back
Last night was helter-skelter. Things stuck but it will be very hard to successfully replicate.
I can't agree that last night was helter skelter.
Direct in the forwards
Smart kicking in behind in the wet with a strong chase.
More linespeed in defence and counter rucking.
They chanced their arm when under advantage but when you're under advatange that's fine.
It wasn't dry weather helter-skelter, but it was the wet weather version. It worked last night.
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they are now using DH as he should be used, he was good.
But Caleb is still a weak point in defence, luckily we managed to escape last night, Argies were committed but panicked and made marginal mistakes at the wrong time and luckily the ABs knew when to pounce, carry, and pass. But no doubt that was a forward victory, I am so impressed with the front row. Didn't notice Lomax as much as others but on second viewing he was up in their faces and even when De Groot was cleaned from a ruck he managed to take several players with him.
Rieko had great timing and so did DH but as I said regards Caleb the other backs were a little bit off. Luckily the Argies don't have great ball handling skills and they didn't know how to respond.
I think we are better but for the RWC in France I still think we have a great many workons before we face France Ireland or England again (S Africa-will depend).
(At this stage I can't see Australia having enough depth and skill even with Quade back to be a major threat deep into the RWC).
But yes even as much as I like Caleb (and he supported very well) he is a defensive liability at the moment. -
they are now using DH as he should be used, he was good.
But Caleb is still a weak point in defence, luckily we managed to escape last night, Argies were committed but panicked and made marginal mistakes at the wrong time and luckily the ABs knew when to pounce, carry, and pass. But no doubt that was a forward victory, I am so impressed with the front row. Didn't notice Lomax as much as others but on second viewing he was up in their faces and even when De Groot was cleaned from a ruck he managed to take several players with him.
Rieko had great timing and so did DH but as I said regards Caleb the other backs were a little bit off. Luckily the Argies don't have great ball handling skills and they didn't know how to respond.
I think we are better but for the RWC in France I still think we have a great many workons before we face France Ireland or England again (S Africa-will depend).
(At this stage I can't see Australia having enough depth and skill even with Quade back to be a major threat deep into the RWC).
But yes even as much as I like Caleb (and he supported very well) he is a defensive liability at the moment.@nostrildamus said in Foster:
they are now using DH as he should be used, he was good.
But Caleb is still a weak point in defence, luckily we managed to escape last night, Argies were committed but panicked and made marginal mistakes at the wrong time and luckily the ABs knew when to pounce, carry, and pass. But no doubt that was a forward victory, I am so impressed with the front row. Didn't notice Lomax as much as others but on second viewing he was up in their faces and even when De Groot was cleaned from a ruck he managed to take several players with him.
Rieko had great timing and so did DH but as I said regards Caleb the other backs were a little bit off. Luckily the Argies don't have great ball handling skills and they didn't know how to respond.
I think we are better but for the RWC in France I still think we have a great many workons before we face France Ireland or England again (S Africa-will depend).
(At this stage I can't see Australia having enough depth and skill even with Quade back to be a major threat deep into the RWC).
But yes even as much as I like Caleb (and he supported very well) he is a defensive liability at the moment.For a big guy his defence is pretty shite. He uses all his power in attack and pretty much saves none for defence.
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@Machpants said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
The game plan was better. We played much better. Just need to back up next game to suggest this is real improvement and not a one off response
Both bleds need this level to make me feel maybe a corner has been turned under foster.
First can we beat a wounded Oz after a good performance, playing away?
Then, following that victory, can we keep our standards when complacency will be strong, Eden park hoodoo, just best them last week, etc.3 good performances.
Even GH and Shag said 3 top performances on the trot was very difficult in the pro era. I want to see continued refinement of the game plan and execution
Totally, thus 3 good performances. Enough to win, cos it's only Oz
That was a great performance, so 1 out of 3 good or better, so farI think we are generally in agreement. It's about the style of play as much as the result. A sneaky win playing helter skelter rugby but generally playing poorly will be considered a step back
Last night was helter-skelter. Things stuck but it will be very hard to successfully replicate.
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
The game plan was better. We played much better. Just need to back up next game to suggest this is real improvement and not a one off response
Both bleds need this level to make me feel maybe a corner has been turned under foster.
First can we beat a wounded Oz after a good performance, playing away?
Then, following that victory, can we keep our standards when complacency will be strong, Eden park hoodoo, just best them last week, etc.3 good performances.
Even GH and Shag said 3 top performances on the trot was very difficult in the pro era. I want to see continued refinement of the game plan and execution
Totally, thus 3 good performances. Enough to win, cos it's only Oz
That was a great performance, so 1 out of 3 good or better, so farI think we are generally in agreement. It's about the style of play as much as the result. A sneaky win playing helter skelter rugby but generally playing poorly will be considered a step back
Last night was helter-skelter. Things stuck but it will be very hard to successfully replicate.
I think we showed a LOT more control last night. Sure, we had them under the pump from the off, but the level of game control was way, way better and the precision in the wet was just off the scale
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I knew Fozzie would come through, always had faith in him..what an amazing coach
So NZR..where to from here?
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@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
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Player wise nothing much has changed recently except the new front row.
It validates what everyone on here knows that the organisation, leadership and coaching hasn't been up to scratch -
NZR won't be getting a xmas card from me this year
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@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
Losing 6 from 8 will do that to you sadly. Particularly if it includes the first ever home losses to the Paddies and Argies. Let's also not forget that alot of people were pissed off that Foster got the job in the first place.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
they are now using DH as he should be used, he was good.
But Caleb is still a weak point in defence, luckily we managed to escape last night, Argies were committed but panicked and made marginal mistakes at the wrong time and luckily the ABs knew when to pounce, carry, and pass. But no doubt that was a forward victory, I am so impressed with the front row. Didn't notice Lomax as much as others but on second viewing he was up in their faces and even when De Groot was cleaned from a ruck he managed to take several players with him.
Rieko had great timing and so did DH but as I said regards Caleb the other backs were a little bit off. Luckily the Argies don't have great ball handling skills and they didn't know how to respond.
I think we are better but for the RWC in France I still think we have a great many workons before we face France Ireland or England again (S Africa-will depend).
(At this stage I can't see Australia having enough depth and skill even with Quade back to be a major threat deep into the RWC).
But yes even as much as I like Caleb (and he supported very well) he is a defensive liability at the moment.For a big guy his defence is pretty shite. He uses all his power in attack and pretty much saves none for defence.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
they are now using DH as he should be used, he was good.
But Caleb is still a weak point in defence, luckily we managed to escape last night, Argies were committed but panicked and made marginal mistakes at the wrong time and luckily the ABs knew when to pounce, carry, and pass. But no doubt that was a forward victory, I am so impressed with the front row. Didn't notice Lomax as much as others but on second viewing he was up in their faces and even when De Groot was cleaned from a ruck he managed to take several players with him.
Rieko had great timing and so did DH but as I said regards Caleb the other backs were a little bit off. Luckily the Argies don't have great ball handling skills and they didn't know how to respond.
I think we are better but for the RWC in France I still think we have a great many workons before we face France Ireland or England again (S Africa-will depend).
(At this stage I can't see Australia having enough depth and skill even with Quade back to be a major threat deep into the RWC).
But yes even as much as I like Caleb (and he supported very well) he is a defensive liability at the moment.For a big guy his defence is pretty shite. He uses all his power in attack and pretty much saves none for defence.
He's just too nice and friendly. Like all Aucklanders...
Needs to be fed on a diet of raw meat and eggs, mega bench press every day and a romantic weekend in Hamilton. -
It also begs the question, are we currently running on 5 or 6 cylinders. We'll never know
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I'm also p*******d off that it has taken so long for the likes of De Groot, Newell, Sami, Paps, Vaai, Soututu to show what they are capable off. Loyalty is one thing, this is something else
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I'm also p*******d off that it has taken so long for the likes of De Groot, Newell, Sami, Paps, Vaai, Soututu to show what they are capable off. Loyalty is one thing, this is something else
@BerniesCorner said in Foster:
I'm also p*******d off that it has taken so long for the likes of De Groot, Newell, Sami, Paps, Vaai, Soututu to show what they are capable off. Loyalty is one thing, this is something else
I had to read this twice... so you are not pissed off at the players but at Foster for being so slow to play them?
Yes the Sami T thing is a bit strange not only has he given 100% and monstered the option he has been IMO one of the most consistent players.. -
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
The game plan was better. We played much better. Just need to back up next game to suggest this is real improvement and not a one off response
Both bleds need this level to make me feel maybe a corner has been turned under foster.
First can we beat a wounded Oz after a good performance, playing away?
Then, following that victory, can we keep our standards when complacency will be strong, Eden park hoodoo, just best them last week, etc.3 good performances.
Even GH and Shag said 3 top performances on the trot was very difficult in the pro era. I want to see continued refinement of the game plan and execution
Totally, thus 3 good performances. Enough to win, cos it's only Oz
That was a great performance, so 1 out of 3 good or better, so farI think we are generally in agreement. It's about the style of play as much as the result. A sneaky win playing helter skelter rugby but generally playing poorly will be considered a step back
Last night was helter-skelter. Things stuck but it will be very hard to successfully replicate.
I think we showed a LOT more control last night. Sure, we had them under the pump from the off, but the level of game control was way, way better and the precision in the wet was just off the scale
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
The game plan was better. We played much better. Just need to back up next game to suggest this is real improvement and not a one off response
Both bleds need this level to make me feel maybe a corner has been turned under foster.
First can we beat a wounded Oz after a good performance, playing away?
Then, following that victory, can we keep our standards when complacency will be strong, Eden park hoodoo, just best them last week, etc.3 good performances.
Even GH and Shag said 3 top performances on the trot was very difficult in the pro era. I want to see continued refinement of the game plan and execution
Totally, thus 3 good performances. Enough to win, cos it's only Oz
That was a great performance, so 1 out of 3 good or better, so farI think we are generally in agreement. It's about the style of play as much as the result. A sneaky win playing helter skelter rugby but generally playing poorly will be considered a step back
Last night was helter-skelter. Things stuck but it will be very hard to successfully replicate.
I think we showed a LOT more control last night. Sure, we had them under the pump from the off, but the level of game control was way, way better and the precision in the wet was just off the scale
Agree with all your say and it was good to see, but the bolded bit sort of hints at what I am trying to get at. I suspect the game plan needs it to be off the scale.
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Yeah. These young players have shown great SR form for quite a while and should have been selected to play before now.
Selecting a retiring prop heading overseas before these new guys didnt make sense.
Paps, Vaai, Sotutu need more game time -
@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
I am pleased they won and am henceforth crediting all wins to Ryan and Schmidt because they have proven records of success. Foster is riding their coattails - jammy bastard.
If the ABs lose at any point, I will also be blaming everything on Foster.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
I am pleased they won and am henceforth crediting all wins to Ryan and Schmidt because they have proven records of success. Foster is riding their coattails - jammy bastard.
If the ABs lose at any point, I will also be blaming everything on Foster.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
Losing 6 from 8 will do that to you sadly. Particularly if it includes the first ever home losses to the Paddies and Argies. Let's also not forget that alot of people were pissed off that Foster got the job in the first place.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
Losing 6 from 8 will do that to you sadly. Particularly if it includes the first ever home losses to the Paddies and Argies. Let's also not forget that alot of people were pissed off that Foster got the job in the first place.
I've been thinking about this. For me it is not the losing. I supported the ABs through other rough patches, including losing five in a row, and never felt like this. I didn't stop supporting Waikato when they had hideous seasons and were dropped to Div 2.
It's the combination of some very, very poor rugby being played, with a coach that seems oblivious to it all -- indeed tells us constantly that they are very close to clicking. Only to dish up another disaster soon afterwards.
Previous AB coaches had bad runs, but had the good grace to be apologetic -- and mostly I could forgive them because they clearly were trying things to turn it around. They didn't just keep doing exactly the same thing that hadn't been working.
It's the slow motion car crash aspect that makes me no longer care.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@mariner4life I love that people now don’t enjoy all black wins with great performances!!
Weeeaaakkkkk
A lot of people seem less interested in whether the ABs win or not than who the coach is, sadly.
Losing 6 from 8 will do that to you sadly. Particularly if it includes the first ever home losses to the Paddies and Argies. Let's also not forget that alot of people were pissed off that Foster got the job in the first place.
I've been thinking about this. For me it is not the losing. I supported the ABs through other rough patches, including losing five in a row, and never felt like this. I didn't stop supporting Waikato when they had hideous seasons and were dropped to Div 2.
It's the combination of some very, very poor rugby being played, with a coach that seems oblivious to it all -- indeed tells us constantly that they are very close to clicking. Only to dish up another disaster soon afterwards.
Previous AB coaches had bad runs, but had the good grace to be apologetic -- and mostly I could forgive them because they clearly were trying things to turn it around. They didn't just keep doing exactly the same thing that hadn't been working.
It's the slow motion car crash aspect that makes me no longer care.
This post is deleted!
