Foster, Robertson etc
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@mariner4life said in Foster:
some nice and cooked takes floating around now
I'm not sure even the most optimistic AB fanboi would call us a "structured & cohesive unit"
We were crushed in South Africa. Blew them away with a short burst in the 2nd game. Promptly lost to Argentina in NZ. Were a brain explosion away from losing in Melbourne to a team that was down to like 13 players at one point. The weekend was a fucking smoking yes, but tempered by the Wallabies being pretty average. And again, an early card.
There have been some pretty obvious changes from the Ireland series, but most of them are tweaks to what we were doing before. We're still very helter skelter, but we are giving ourselves more room to do it by being harder up front, and a touch deeper on attack.
Simply writing this all off to Foster being sidelined by the new guys is, well, it's a take i guess.
I expect, as always, the truth is somewhere in the middle
@mariner4life said in Foster:
some nice and cooked takes floating around now
I'm not sure even the most optimistic AB fanboi would call us a "structured & cohesive unit"
We were crushed in South Africa. Blew them away with a short burst in the 2nd game. Promptly lost to Argentina in NZ. Were a brain explosion away from losing in Melbourne to a team that was down to like 13 players at one point. The weekend was a fucking smoking yes, but tempered by the Wallabies being pretty average. And again, an early card.
There have been some pretty obvious changes from the Ireland series, but most of them are tweaks to what we were doing before. We're still very helter skelter, but we are giving ourselves more room to do it by being harder up front, and a touch deeper on attack.
Simply writing this all off to Foster being sidelined by the new guys is, well, it's a take i guess.
I expect, as always, the truth is somewhere in the middle
probably something like "hey new guys, this is what we are trying to do here"
and the new guys have a look and go "yep, okay, how about if we just do a bit of this and this?"
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@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.Surely there must be a more discreet exit?
There's an underground carpark and a fire exit, both of which are in plain view and close to the front door.
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.Surely there must be a more discreet exit?
There's an underground carpark and a fire exit, both of which are in plain view and close to the front door.
That is some impressive detail. You either work there, are a committed stalker, or a fulltime assassin.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster:
I have never seen an ABs outfit more clueless or mismanaged than at the start of this season. They were clueless on the field and the selections were just baffling. I have seen average AB teams (on paper) complete and they have always been in the fight regardless! This was the first time the ABs looked like a disorganized rabble, and to be honest, it was a big shock! That is 100% on Foster!
Stevie Devine would agree with your assessment.
“I wasn’t exactly joyous about his coaching,” says Devine.
“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
Some good (but captain farking obvious)quotes there:
“We are a good team, but we struggle getting on the front foot and to look after the ball. It’s costing us Test matches.
“You can’t build pressure if you can’t hang onto the ball and we can only hang onto it for a few phases and we are relying on our long-range tries to keep us in the game."
But maybe part of a master plan? Deliver shit results while playing some of the most clueless, hamfisted rugby seen from the ABs in decades. Then make changes with a proverbial gun to the head, not to mention forced selections due to injuries. Ta dah. Suddenly a good head coach.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster:
I have never seen an ABs outfit more clueless or mismanaged than at the start of this season. They were clueless on the field and the selections were just baffling. I have seen average AB teams (on paper) complete and they have always been in the fight regardless! This was the first time the ABs looked like a disorganized rabble, and to be honest, it was a big shock! That is 100% on Foster!
Stevie Devine would agree with your assessment.
“I wasn’t exactly joyous about his coaching,” says Devine.
“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
Some good (but captain farking obvious)quotes there:
“We are a good team, but we struggle getting on the front foot and to look after the ball. It’s costing us Test matches.
“You can’t build pressure if you can’t hang onto the ball and we can only hang onto it for a few phases and we are relying on our long-range tries to keep us in the game."
But maybe part of a master plan? Deliver shit results while playing some of the most clueless, hamfisted rugby seen from the ABs in decades. Then make changes with a proverbial gun to the head, not to mention forced selections due to injuries. Ta dah. Suddenly a good head coach.
You mean he delib messed up the team so this year NZR would persuade Schmidt and Ryan to join because they felt sorry for Foster and the team? That would be some master rope a dope strategy...
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@mariner4life said in Foster:
some nice and cooked takes floating around now
I'm not sure even the most optimistic AB fanboi would call us a "structured & cohesive unit"
We were crushed in South Africa. Blew them away with a short burst in the 2nd game. Promptly lost to Argentina in NZ. Were a brain explosion away from losing in Melbourne to a team that was down to like 13 players at one point. The weekend was a fucking smoking yes, but tempered by the Wallabies being pretty average. And again, an early card.
There have been some pretty obvious changes from the Ireland series, but most of them are tweaks to what we were doing before. We're still very helter skelter, but we are giving ourselves more room to do it by being harder up front, and a touch deeper on attack.
Simply writing this all off to Foster being sidelined by the new guys is, well, it's a take i guess.
I expect, as always, the truth is somewhere in the middle
@mariner4life said in Foster:
some nice and cooked takes floating around now
I'm not sure even the most optimistic AB fanboi would call us a "structured & cohesive unit"
We were crushed in South Africa. Blew them away with a short burst in the 2nd game. Promptly lost to Argentina in NZ. Were a brain explosion away from losing in Melbourne to a team that was down to like 13 players at one point. The weekend was a fucking smoking yes, but tempered by the Wallabies being pretty average. And again, an early card.
There have been some pretty obvious changes from the Ireland series, but most of them are tweaks to what we were doing before. We're still very helter skelter, but we are giving ourselves more room to do it by being harder up front, and a touch deeper on attack.
Simply writing this all off to Foster being sidelined by the new guys is, well, it's a take i guess.
I expect, as always, the truth is somewhere in the middle
Possibly. I expect, as always, nobody knows. Including Foster and the NZR.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster:
I have never seen an ABs outfit more clueless or mismanaged than at the start of this season. They were clueless on the field and the selections were just baffling. I have seen average AB teams (on paper) complete and they have always been in the fight regardless! This was the first time the ABs looked like a disorganized rabble, and to be honest, it was a big shock! That is 100% on Foster!
Stevie Devine would agree with your assessment.
“I wasn’t exactly joyous about his coaching,” says Devine.
“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
Some good (but captain farking obvious)quotes there:
“We are a good team, but we struggle getting on the front foot and to look after the ball. It’s costing us Test matches.
“You can’t build pressure if you can’t hang onto the ball and we can only hang onto it for a few phases and we are relying on our long-range tries to keep us in the game."
But maybe part of a master plan? Deliver shit results while playing some of the most clueless, hamfisted rugby seen from the ABs in decades. Then make changes with a proverbial gun to the head, not to mention forced selections due to injuries. Ta dah. Suddenly a good head coach.
You mean he delib messed up the team so this year NZR would persuade Schmidt and Ryan to join because they felt sorry for Foster and the team? That would be some master rope a dope strategy...
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster:
I have never seen an ABs outfit more clueless or mismanaged than at the start of this season. They were clueless on the field and the selections were just baffling. I have seen average AB teams (on paper) complete and they have always been in the fight regardless! This was the first time the ABs looked like a disorganized rabble, and to be honest, it was a big shock! That is 100% on Foster!
Stevie Devine would agree with your assessment.
“I wasn’t exactly joyous about his coaching,” says Devine.
“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
Some good (but captain farking obvious)quotes there:
“We are a good team, but we struggle getting on the front foot and to look after the ball. It’s costing us Test matches.
“You can’t build pressure if you can’t hang onto the ball and we can only hang onto it for a few phases and we are relying on our long-range tries to keep us in the game."
But maybe part of a master plan? Deliver shit results while playing some of the most clueless, hamfisted rugby seen from the ABs in decades. Then make changes with a proverbial gun to the head, not to mention forced selections due to injuries. Ta dah. Suddenly a good head coach.
You mean he delib messed up the team so this year NZR would persuade Schmidt and Ryan to join because they felt sorry for Foster and the team? That would be some master rope a dope strategy...
Machiavellian level shit
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@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.So he has to decide between his mate or his country.
Robertson accepting the AB XV gig seems like a no-brainer to me, as you have a foot in the door.
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Robertson accepting the AB XV gig seems like a no-brainer to me, as you have a foot in the door.
I thought he already took the Barbarians job? They play against the AB XV
Hence my comment.
O'Gara is the head coach isn't he? The Baabaas is just a paycheck.
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A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.So he has to decide between his mate or his country.
Robertson accepting the AB XV gig seems like a no-brainer to me, as you have a foot in the door.
I believe he has been offered the AB XV job.
I should add he has been offered it again. -
A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.So he has to decide between his mate or his country.
Robertson accepting the AB XV gig seems like a no-brainer to me, as you have a foot in the door.
I believe he has been offered the AB XV job.
I should add he has been offered it again.A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.So he has to decide between his mate or his country.
Robertson accepting the AB XV gig seems like a no-brainer to me, as you have a foot in the door.
I believe he has been offered the AB XV job.
Surely he will take it. A small step towards assuming the reins of the big team in 2024
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A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.So he has to decide between his mate or his country.
Robertson accepting the AB XV gig seems like a no-brainer to me, as you have a foot in the door.
I believe he has been offered the AB XV job.
Surely he will take it. A small step towards assuming the reins of the big team in 2024
A meeting to see if Razor will take the All Black XV
Coaches job.So he has to decide between his mate or his country.
Robertson accepting the AB XV gig seems like a no-brainer to me, as you have a foot in the door.
I believe he has been offered the AB XV job.
Surely he will take it. A small step towards assuming the reins of the big team in 2024
I think he will hence the meeting with Robinson.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.Surely there must be a more discreet exit?
There's an underground carpark and a fire exit, both of which are in plain view and close to the front door.
That is some impressive detail. You either work there, are a committed stalker, or a fulltime assassin.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.Surely there must be a more discreet exit?
There's an underground carpark and a fire exit, both of which are in plain view and close to the front door.
That is some impressive detail. You either work there, are a committed stalker, or a fulltime assassin.
Or worked next door
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.Surely there must be a more discreet exit?
There's an underground carpark and a fire exit, both of which are in plain view and close to the front door.
That is some impressive detail. You either work there, are a committed stalker, or a fulltime assassin.
Or worked next door
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster:
@Rancid-Schnitzel apparently razor met with mark Robinson yesterday at nzru headquarters on a public holiday. And walked out together, Nobody knows what is was about . Hopefully his coaching contract post World Cup .
The funny thing is senz share the same building and same floor and they were giving live commentary as it was happening.
Not ideal for private meetings.Surely there must be a more discreet exit?
There's an underground carpark and a fire exit, both of which are in plain view and close to the front door.
That is some impressive detail. You either work there, are a committed stalker, or a fulltime assassin.
Or worked next door
Fair enough.
At Assassins HQ.
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This place lurches from one extreme to the other.
That was a good AB performance but let's not get carried away.
For one thing we always flog Aussie at Eden Park. For another, this team had yet to string together 2 good performances all year.
Let's just hold our horses and wait and see how we go on the NH tour.
2 outcomes are on the cards I reckon.
Either we have finally turned a corner and will have a good tour.
OR we have mixed results, look good one week and dreadful.the next.
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This place lurches from one extreme to the other.
That was a good AB performance but let's not get carried away.
For one thing we always flog Aussie at Eden Park. For another, this team had yet to string together 2 good performances all year.
Let's just hold our horses and wait and see how we go on the NH tour.
2 outcomes are on the cards I reckon.
Either we have finally turned a corner and will have a good tour.
OR we have mixed results, look good one week and dreadful.the next.
This place lurches from one extreme to the other.
That was a good AB performance but let's not get carried away.
For one thing we always flog Aussie at Eden Park. For another, this team had yet to string together 2 good performances all year.
Let's just hold our horses and wait and see how we go on the NH tour.
2 outcomes are on the cards I reckon.
Either we have finally turned a corner and will have a good tour.
OR we have mixed results, look good one week and dreadful.the next.
Hopefully that performance is vs Scotland.
Come on the sweaty socks !
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“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
I hate this, because I'm one of the early members of the Foster Must Go club. But FFS, the players clearly rate him. He's not a great coach, but he's no idiot, and obviously does some good things.
If I get a white knight award for Foster, I'm changing my login details and coming back as a hater. Y'all been warned.
How else does one explain All Blacks going from disorganized rabble to structured & cohesive unit within the timeframe of merely 2-3 weeks? Anyone who thinks the change isn't entirely attributed to Ryan & Schmidt must be kidding themselves. Meldrew appears to be one of them.
“It was quite loose and unorganized as nobody really knew their role. I look at the team now and it’s exactly what I'm seeing.”
I hate this, because I'm one of the early members of the Foster Must Go club. But FFS, the players clearly rate him. He's not a great coach, but he's no idiot, and obviously does some good things.
If I get a white knight award for Foster, I'm changing my login details and coming back as a hater. Y'all been warned.
How else does one explain All Blacks going from disorganized rabble to structured & cohesive unit within the timeframe of merely 2-3 weeks? Anyone who thinks the change isn't entirely attributed to Ryan & Schmidt must be kidding themselves. Meldrew appears to be one of them.
I explain it by denying it.
We aren't structured and cohesive. We had a good win, in amongst some dreadful performances. The history of this season suggests next game will be diabolical. Hope we have turned the corner, but remember we said that about SA II, and ARG II as well.
Lots of chances went begging that great AB teams do not miss out on.
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This place lurches from one extreme to the other.
That was a good AB performance but let's not get carried away.
For one thing we always flog Aussie at Eden Park. For another, this team had yet to string together 2 good performances all year.
Let's just hold our horses and wait and see how we go on the NH tour.
2 outcomes are on the cards I reckon.
Either we have finally turned a corner and will have a good tour.
OR we have mixed results, look good one week and dreadful.the next.
@Damo I think it’s possible that the ABs show they have turned the corner but lose a test on the upcoming tour.
I don’t doubt we will see some inconsistent patches throughout the 80 minutes, but if they can reduce those periods and show that they know how to regroup and step up, that will be a plus for me.
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@Damo I think it’s possible that the ABs show they have turned the corner but lose a test on the upcoming tour.
I don’t doubt we will see some inconsistent patches throughout the 80 minutes, but if they can reduce those periods and show that they know how to regroup and step up, that will be a plus for me.
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@Damo I think it’s possible that the ABs show they have turned the corner but lose a test on the upcoming tour.
I don’t doubt we will see some inconsistent patches throughout the 80 minutes, but if they can reduce those periods and show that they know how to regroup and step up, that will be a plus for me.
Yes I didn't say that we have to win every test for it to be a good tour. A close loss to England wouldn't be a disgrace so long as we play well.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
The Team was lost prior to Schmidt and Ryan. Now the backs are attacking with purpose, our set piece is looking a lot better.
Once again you're arguing a Head Coach (good or bad) doesn't have much impact on team performance. Which, given the way some on here fetishize Roberston as an AB Head Coach, is a bit illogical - if not weird.
Just because one head coach has fuck all impact now new assistants have been forced on him, does not mean all head coaches do nothing.
I'm not saying I totally agree, but it's not weird. Foster is an ineffective head coach, and his team shit as an abs team ever had been. But now he's been forced to move away from his choices as assistants, the abs are improving.
Sorry, but it's incredibly weird thinking to say a head coach has no impact on results and in the same breath argue a new Head Coach will improve things.
Peter De Villiers as Boks coach (2008-2011) - it was well known that he couldn't coach for shit & the assistants did essentially all the coaching for him. Foster appears much the same.
De Villiers started out OK and the Boks faded badly in 2010-11. So if you are saying his assistants did all the work, you're arguing De Villiers wasn't to blame for those latter poor results either, and his assistants should have carried the can.
Which is a bonkers argument when you look at it.
Not really. Even the players admitted that the assistants Gary Gold and Dick Muir were ultimately responsible for the success of that era & said De Villiers was pretty useless as a coach.
Every different to Foster then when you consider the high praise he gets from players like Ritchie, Ardie and Sam Whitelock.
Tbf, Mark "never made the playoffs despite having absolute power" Hammett seemed to have plenty of love from the players he didn't send packing.
I've no doubt that perhaps one-on-one Foster has plenty of wisdom to impart. He was a decent player himself and rose through the coaching ranks very quickly. Clearly he has something of value. Unfortunately it's patently obvious that he's not a very good head coach. The evidence obviously being the Chiefs and ABs. If I can give him credit for something it's having at least been humble enough to accept the changes that clearly needed to be made. While they came very belatedly and allowed him to save his job, many would probably have gone the full bottom lip and had a tanty. Maybe he does that in private but I for one feel a hell of alot better with Schmidt and Ryan holding his hand. It's a pretty ridiculous situation but probably the best outcome before handing over to Razor for fresh start (hopefully
) after the RWC.The flip side to your argument is that maybe he is a good head coach. He has held this team together and found solutions. Even with his mistakes (eg holding on to assistants and some players) he hasn't lost the changing room and has helped guide things through adversity.
Yep, he has stumbled onto some solutions or had his hand forced but I don't buy that he is some kind of idiot at the helm of a ship navigated and sailed by the crew.
Definitely had his failings exposed but he has also been able to work past them.Maybe.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
The Team was lost prior to Schmidt and Ryan. Now the backs are attacking with purpose, our set piece is looking a lot better.
Once again you're arguing a Head Coach (good or bad) doesn't have much impact on team performance. Which, given the way some on here fetishize Roberston as an AB Head Coach, is a bit illogical - if not weird.
Just because one head coach has fuck all impact now new assistants have been forced on him, does not mean all head coaches do nothing.
I'm not saying I totally agree, but it's not weird. Foster is an ineffective head coach, and his team shit as an abs team ever had been. But now he's been forced to move away from his choices as assistants, the abs are improving.
Sorry, but it's incredibly weird thinking to say a head coach has no impact on results and in the same breath argue a new Head Coach will improve things.
Peter De Villiers as Boks coach (2008-2011) - it was well known that he couldn't coach for shit & the assistants did essentially all the coaching for him. Foster appears much the same.
De Villiers started out OK and the Boks faded badly in 2010-11. So if you are saying his assistants did all the work, you're arguing De Villiers wasn't to blame for those latter poor results either, and his assistants should have carried the can.
Which is a bonkers argument when you look at it.
Not really. Even the players admitted that the assistants Gary Gold and Dick Muir were ultimately responsible for the success of that era & said De Villiers was pretty useless as a coach.
Every different to Foster then when you consider the high praise he gets from players like Ritchie, Ardie and Sam Whitelock.
Tbf, Mark "never made the playoffs despite having absolute power" Hammett seemed to have plenty of love from the players he didn't send packing.
I've no doubt that perhaps one-on-one Foster has plenty of wisdom to impart. He was a decent player himself and rose through the coaching ranks very quickly. Clearly he has something of value. Unfortunately it's patently obvious that he's not a very good head coach. The evidence obviously being the Chiefs and ABs. If I can give him credit for something it's having at least been humble enough to accept the changes that clearly needed to be made. While they came very belatedly and allowed him to save his job, many would probably have gone the full bottom lip and had a tanty. Maybe he does that in private but I for one feel a hell of alot better with Schmidt and Ryan holding his hand. It's a pretty ridiculous situation but probably the best outcome before handing over to Razor for fresh start (hopefully
) after the RWC.The flip side to your argument is that maybe he is a good head coach. He has held this team together and found solutions. Even with his mistakes (eg holding on to assistants and some players) he hasn't lost the changing room and has helped guide things through adversity.
Yep, he has stumbled onto some solutions or had his hand forced but I don't buy that he is some kind of idiot at the helm of a ship navigated and sailed by the crew.
Definitely had his failings exposed but he has also been able to work past them.Maybe.
I just want to know how you keep that suit of armour so damn white. You even manage to get the grass stains out of the knees. Impressive!
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@Damo I think it’s possible that the ABs show they have turned the corner but lose a test on the upcoming tour.
I don’t doubt we will see some inconsistent patches throughout the 80 minutes, but if they can reduce those periods and show that they know how to regroup and step up, that will be a plus for me.
Yes I didn't say that we have to win every test for it to be a good tour. A close loss to England wouldn't be a disgrace so long as we play well.
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@Damo I think it’s possible that the ABs show they have turned the corner but lose a test on the upcoming tour.
I don’t doubt we will see some inconsistent patches throughout the 80 minutes, but if they can reduce those periods and show that they know how to regroup and step up, that will be a plus for me.
Yes I didn't say that we have to win every test for it to be a good tour. A close loss to England wouldn't be a disgrace so long as we play well.
This
