Foster, Robertson etc
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I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives.
I think people have suggested an alternative - for example a CEO that has sports management background outside of the NZRU bubble.
@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives.
I think people have suggested an alternative - for example a CEO that has sports management background outside of the NZRU bubble.
Yep, exactly what I agree with, someone actually having a POSITIVE suggestion. I know almost all Rugby/sports boards end up with CEO's from within the game, and it's worth pursuing maybe saying noone from within the game can be CEO? I know almost always in most sports boards of countries the CEO come through the ranks etc.. But we have to remember the CEO doesn't make decisions as such, that is almost always done by a board, made of memebers voted by the provincial unions, who are generally voted in by rugby clubs etc, But really no need for CEO to have to come from within sport, although I personally like them too, at least to have some sport admin, but that's just my opinion. And to be honest I don't know who else applied for the job.
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I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives.
I think people have suggested an alternative - for example a CEO that has sports management background outside of the NZRU bubble.
@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives.
I think people have suggested an alternative - for example a CEO that has sports management background outside of the NZRU bubble.
You mean someone like Raelene Castle?
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives.
I think people have suggested an alternative - for example a CEO that has sports management background outside of the NZRU bubble.
You mean someone like Raelene Castle?
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives.
I think people have suggested an alternative - for example a CEO that has sports management background outside of the NZRU bubble.
You mean someone like Raelene Castle?
Lol, see shows what I know , as I thought Raelene Castle was doing ok with RA.
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@BerniesCorner said in Foster:
International experience has nothing to do with coaching ability, you've either got 'it' or you don't.
That's it right there
We have the wrong coach, captain and NZR are crap.So why aren't you standing for NZR board to sort it all out? Genuine question mate, I keep hearing people say how bad they are, most (and not saying you) don't even know how the board is appointed or run etc. I really think the answer is more with great ideas, need to get on rugby boards and make required changes.
You must know its not this easy. For one its about knowing our limitations. So we can see the cock-ups NZR are making. But don't have the ability (or enough energy or time) or contacts etc. (great, capable people don't always get the breaks needed to get to the top) to take over and do any better.
I kind of get that Winger, but everyone that is upset can make a difference, and you don't actually have to really go on NZR, but anyone can join a club committee, even get on provincial board (hell even I have done that) and then you have a chance of your opinion making a difference, to just moan on a fporum and not to try and do anything better is the very thing that wears out people who do the jobs.
Take my word for it while being on either schoolboy rugby, club committtee, JAB,, provincial rugby union board, it never failed to astound me the number of people who knew what was wrong with every part of rugby (and that included who we appointed as coaches etc), most of them couldn't put down their beers, or get of their arses to actually do ANYTHING to help make game/sport any better. Now there are some that do, but it's like voting etc if we all do a little we can make things better. Mate while doing jobs I copped shit (mostly behind back etc) for appointing a coach (the other one who stood and I voted against was a very good friend), what time games were played, club fees etc etc, funnily enough after a season of things going well you hardly ever heard you had done a good job.
Probably why I don't get into the harping that a lot seem to love , you end up wearing out the people who do the jobs at even lower levels, who actually vote these people in on NZR etc. I will add it is by no means a Kiwi thing, I am surprised the game is played at all in the world with how bad all rugby boards etc seem to be.Maybe some of us have done time playing,coaching being on boards selection committees etc and because they love the game and have put years into the game feel they have a right to moan when they feel it’s going to shit.
So don’t sit on your high horse and tell people what they should do when you have no idea what they have done ,
That just pisses me off.Mate everyone has the right to an opinion, and I know a lot in here have put in time on boards , coaching etc, and I make no bones I get on high horse at times about moaning etc, but really under a an alias on a rugby forum? We all love the game (I assume) so would be nice if we saw it with some positivity sometimes.
And I not telling people what to do, giving them suggestions to how they can change things.
I admit one of reasons I reel in complaining about how things are run is because I have done the work, but don't do it anymore , but if I was upset I would try and change it by getting back into it. I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives. And that not aimed at you or anyone on board, but just in general.@BerniesCorner said in Foster:
International experience has nothing to do with coaching ability, you've either got 'it' or you don't.
That's it right there
We have the wrong coach, captain and NZR are crap.So why aren't you standing for NZR board to sort it all out? Genuine question mate, I keep hearing people say how bad they are, most (and not saying you) don't even know how the board is appointed or run etc. I really think the answer is more with great ideas, need to get on rugby boards and make required changes.
You must know its not this easy. For one its about knowing our limitations. So we can see the cock-ups NZR are making. But don't have the ability (or enough energy or time) or contacts etc. (great, capable people don't always get the breaks needed to get to the top) to take over and do any better.
I kind of get that Winger, but everyone that is upset can make a difference, and you don't actually have to really go on NZR, but anyone can join a club committee, even get on provincial board (hell even I have done that) and then you have a chance of your opinion making a difference, to just moan on a fporum and not to try and do anything better is the very thing that wears out people who do the jobs.
Take my word for it while being on either schoolboy rugby, club committtee, JAB,, provincial rugby union board, it never failed to astound me the number of people who knew what was wrong with every part of rugby (and that included who we appointed as coaches etc), most of them couldn't put down their beers, or get of their arses to actually do ANYTHING to help make game/sport any better. Now there are some that do, but it's like voting etc if we all do a little we can make things better. Mate while doing jobs I copped shit (mostly behind back etc) for appointing a coach (the other one who stood and I voted against was a very good friend), what time games were played, club fees etc etc, funnily enough after a season of things going well you hardly ever heard you had done a good job.
Probably why I don't get into the harping that a lot seem to love , you end up wearing out the people who do the jobs at even lower levels, who actually vote these people in on NZR etc. I will add it is by no means a Kiwi thing, I am surprised the game is played at all in the world with how bad all rugby boards etc seem to be.Maybe some of us have done time playing,coaching being on boards selection committees etc and because they love the game and have put years into the game feel they have a right to moan when they feel it’s going to shit.
So don’t sit on your high horse and tell people what they should do when you have no idea what they have done ,
That just pisses me off.Mate everyone has the right to an opinion, and I know a lot in here have put in time on boards , coaching etc, and I make no bones I get on high horse at times about moaning etc, but really under a an alias on a rugby forum? We all love the game (I assume) so would be nice if we saw it with some positivity sometimes.
And I not telling people what to do, giving them suggestions to how they can change things.
I admit one of reasons I reel in complaining about how things are run is because I have done the work, but don't do it anymore , but if I was upset I would try and change it by getting back into it. I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives. And that not aimed at you or anyone on board, but just in general.Well for me I cannot run for a board in NZ as I am working here in Australia as a professional Cricket coach,Running and coaching a Premier Club,Working with the Qld u/17 and u/19 squads and running my own academy.
But have put a lot of effort in NZ rugby and cricket as well.
I will still post something if I see the game being run into the ground by people with no vision or thought for the greater good of the game.
If I didn't get stuck into them then it means I don't give a shit anymore, and I do care. -
I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
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I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
Thank god crazy, and thank god we all gullible and lelieve you about being good looking!:face_with_tears_of_joy: :face_with_tears_of_joy:
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I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
you missed humble
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@BerniesCorner said in Foster:
International experience has nothing to do with coaching ability, you've either got 'it' or you don't.
That's it right there
We have the wrong coach, captain and NZR are crap.So why aren't you standing for NZR board to sort it all out? Genuine question mate, I keep hearing people say how bad they are, most (and not saying you) don't even know how the board is appointed or run etc. I really think the answer is more with great ideas, need to get on rugby boards and make required changes.
You must know its not this easy. For one its about knowing our limitations. So we can see the cock-ups NZR are making. But don't have the ability (or enough energy or time) or contacts etc. (great, capable people don't always get the breaks needed to get to the top) to take over and do any better.
I kind of get that Winger, but everyone that is upset can make a difference, and you don't actually have to really go on NZR, but anyone can join a club committee, even get on provincial board (hell even I have done that) and then you have a chance of your opinion making a difference, to just moan on a fporum and not to try and do anything better is the very thing that wears out people who do the jobs.
Take my word for it while being on either schoolboy rugby, club committtee, JAB,, provincial rugby union board, it never failed to astound me the number of people who knew what was wrong with every part of rugby (and that included who we appointed as coaches etc), most of them couldn't put down their beers, or get of their arses to actually do ANYTHING to help make game/sport any better. Now there are some that do, but it's like voting etc if we all do a little we can make things better. Mate while doing jobs I copped shit (mostly behind back etc) for appointing a coach (the other one who stood and I voted against was a very good friend), what time games were played, club fees etc etc, funnily enough after a season of things going well you hardly ever heard you had done a good job.
Probably why I don't get into the harping that a lot seem to love , you end up wearing out the people who do the jobs at even lower levels, who actually vote these people in on NZR etc. I will add it is by no means a Kiwi thing, I am surprised the game is played at all in the world with how bad all rugby boards etc seem to be.Maybe some of us have done time playing,coaching being on boards selection committees etc and because they love the game and have put years into the game feel they have a right to moan when they feel it’s going to shit.
So don’t sit on your high horse and tell people what they should do when you have no idea what they have done ,
That just pisses me off.Mate everyone has the right to an opinion, and I know a lot in here have put in time on boards , coaching etc, and I make no bones I get on high horse at times about moaning etc, but really under a an alias on a rugby forum? We all love the game (I assume) so would be nice if we saw it with some positivity sometimes.
And I not telling people what to do, giving them suggestions to how they can change things.
I admit one of reasons I reel in complaining about how things are run is because I have done the work, but don't do it anymore , but if I was upset I would try and change it by getting back into it. I have read on threads where NZR board are hopeless and should be fired. Great well who then runs the game? Thats what I mean , don't just post negatives but post alternatives. And that not aimed at you or anyone on board, but just in general.Well for me I cannot run for a board in NZ as I am working here in Australia as a professional Cricket coach,Running and coaching a Premier Club,Working with the Qld u/17 and u/19 squads and running my own academy.
But have put a lot of effort in NZ rugby and cricket as well.
I will still post something if I see the game being run into the ground by people with no vision or thought for the greater good of the game.
If I didn't get stuck into them then it means I don't give a shit anymore, and I do care.@Chris and fair enough mate, I not suggesting you shouldn't post never have, that was never my intention, rather suggesting way people can make a difference.
The other thing I may add, in what way is game being run into ground, NZR's first job is too look after grassroots rugby, that is all trucking along nicely considering how the game is going worldwide. -
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
you missed humble
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I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
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I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
You forget to mention myopic too.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
you missed humble
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
I can't go on a board because I am lazy, not in the least bit community minded, not charismatic, devoid of good ideas, and I have no business acumen And besides, nobody listens to me.
Thank God I am good looking.
you missed humble
..by quite a lot..
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@kiwi_expat looool I love Eddie. I've met him a few times, he's fucking funny.
But he's won precisely fuck all. And has a short shelf life apparently
@mariner4life said in Foster:
@kiwi_expat looool I love Eddie. I've met him a few times, he's fucking funny.
But he's won precisely fuck all. And has a short shelf life apparently
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/wallabies-england-eddie-jones-why-this-ones-personal-202272
He has a 2007 World Cup winner’s medal from his time with the Springboks ... He has coached the Wallabies to win the Tri-Nations and Bledisloe Cup and taken England to a Grand Slam and three Six Nations titles, achieving a record-equaling 18 consecutive wins along the way. His teams have beaten every major Test side in the game, including twice eliminating the All Blacks from the Rugby World Cup, and in 2017 he was voted International Rugby Board coach of the year.Well, apart from that....
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@mariner4life said in Foster:
@kiwi_expat looool I love Eddie. I've met him a few times, he's fucking funny.
But he's won precisely fuck all. And has a short shelf life apparently
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/wallabies-england-eddie-jones-why-this-ones-personal-202272
He has a 2007 World Cup winner’s medal from his time with the Springboks ... He has coached the Wallabies to win the Tri-Nations and Bledisloe Cup and taken England to a Grand Slam and three Six Nations titles, achieving a record-equaling 18 consecutive wins along the way. His teams have beaten every major Test side in the game, including twice eliminating the All Blacks from the Rugby World Cup, and in 2017 he was voted International Rugby Board coach of the year.Well, apart from that....
@nostrildamus kind of beat me too it Nostri, he certainly won plenty, funnily enough, never anything at super level, which kind of makes a joke of super titiles being the reason for making someone a test coach. I mean Robbie Deans got about 5 super titles, and was hardly a success as a test coach ,though seems to be doing bloody well at top club level in Japan.
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@nostrildamus kind of beat me too it Nostri, he certainly won plenty, funnily enough, never anything at super level, which kind of makes a joke of super titiles being the reason for making someone a test coach. I mean Robbie Deans got about 5 super titles, and was hardly a success as a test coach ,though seems to be doing bloody well at top club level in Japan.
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@nostrildamus kind of beat me too it Nostri, he certainly won plenty, funnily enough, never anything at super level, which kind of makes a joke of super titiles being the reason for making someone a test coach. I mean Robbie Deans got about 5 super titles, and was hardly a success as a test coach ,though seems to be doing bloody well at top club level in Japan.
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@Dan54 still a better reason than being a friend of the previous coach.
I don't think Dean's is a bad coach. I think Aussie rugby is a difficult employer.@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@Dan54 still a better reason than being a friend of the previous coach.
Christ on a bike, the mental hoops you have to jump through to expect that Foster brings nothing to the table and that Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen had him in the room because they were mates is ridiculous.
I hate defending Foster, he should have gone last year, but it's cheap and shallow to just say 'he's mates with the previous coach'. He was a continuity candidate, and frankly it was not unreasonable to appoint. Risky from the cheap seats, but you could see why they did it. Foster hasn't worked out as a head coach, but he clearly brings a lot to the table - Hansen, Smith and all the current senior players seem to rate him.
also, I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
Really, though, Hansen should have stepped down in 2017, Foster screws the pooch in 18 and 19, and then we get a merit-based selection in 2020. NZR's governance over the last 4 (and arguably 6) years has been awful.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@Dan54 still a better reason than being a friend of the previous coach.
Christ on a bike, the mental hoops you have to jump through to expect that Foster brings nothing to the table and that Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen had him in the room because they were mates is ridiculous.
I hate defending Foster, he should have gone last year, but it's cheap and shallow to just say 'he's mates with the previous coach'. He was a continuity candidate, and frankly it was not unreasonable to appoint. Risky from the cheap seats, but you could see why they did it. Foster hasn't worked out as a head coach, but he clearly brings a lot to the table - Hansen, Smith and all the current senior players seem to rate him.
also, I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
Really, though, Hansen should have stepped down in 2017, Foster screws the pooch in 18 and 19, and then we get a merit-based selection in 2020. NZR's governance over the last 4 (and arguably 6) years has been awful.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@Dan54 still a better reason than being a friend of the previous coach.
Christ on a bike, the mental hoops you have to jump through to expect that Foster brings nothing to the table and that Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen had him in the room because they were mates is ridiculous.
I hate defending Foster, he should have gone last year, but it's cheap and shallow to just say 'he's mates with the previous coach'. He was a continuity candidate, and frankly it was not unreasonable to appoint. Risky from the cheap seats, but you could see why they did it. Foster hasn't worked out as a head coach, but he clearly brings a lot to the table - Hansen, Smith and all the current senior players seem to rate him.
also, I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
Really, though, Hansen should have stepped down in 2017, Foster screws the pooch in 18 and 19, and then we get a merit-based selection in 2020. NZR's governance over the last 4 (and arguably 6) years has been awful.
I hate defending Foster, he should have gone last year, but it's cheap and shallow to just say 'he's mates with the previous coach'.--I didn't actually say that. But I definitely left it open. So, ok.
What I meant and should have written is, success at a lower level has to be a consideration. And then as an example I wanted to compare it to the criteria they used for Foster. But the only thing I know for a fact that he keeps getting selected is the then coaches* picked him and liked him. He probably interviews well too.
I would like to know what criteria they use, I just don't know what the criteria is.So you think on a Foster thread I shouldn't use him as a comparison or phrase it differently? Ok. But I am still defending Deans here (because that was a cheap and shallow reference) as frankly, he gets some stick here and I still don't know what exactly he did wrong apart from coaching the Wallabies (and beating the All Blacks). That was my point.
*Edit: And senior ABs. Ok that is a good one.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@Dan54 still a better reason than being a friend of the previous coach.
Christ on a bike, the mental hoops you have to jump through to expect that Foster brings nothing to the table and that Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen had him in the room because they were mates is ridiculous.
I hate defending Foster, he should have gone last year, but it's cheap and shallow to just say 'he's mates with the previous coach'. He was a continuity candidate, and frankly it was not unreasonable to appoint. Risky from the cheap seats, but you could see why they did it. Foster hasn't worked out as a head coach, but he clearly brings a lot to the table - Hansen, Smith and all the current senior players seem to rate him.
also, I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
Really, though, Hansen should have stepped down in 2017, Foster screws the pooch in 18 and 19, and then we get a merit-based selection in 2020. NZR's governance over the last 4 (and arguably 6) years has been awful.
I hate defending Foster, he should have gone last year, but it's cheap and shallow to just say 'he's mates with the previous coach'.--I didn't actually say that. But I definitely left it open. So, ok.
What I meant and should have written is, success at a lower level has to be a consideration. And then as an example I wanted to compare it to the criteria they used for Foster. But the only thing I know for a fact that he keeps getting selected is the then coaches* picked him and liked him. He probably interviews well too.
I would like to know what criteria they use, I just don't know what the criteria is.So you think on a Foster thread I shouldn't use him as a comparison or phrase it differently? Ok. But I am still defending Deans here (because that was a cheap and shallow reference) as frankly, he gets some stick here and I still don't know what exactly he did wrong apart from coaching the Wallabies (and beating the All Blacks). That was my point.
*Edit: And senior ABs. Ok that is a good one.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
But I am still defending Deans here (because that was a cheap and shallow reference) as frankly, he gets some stick here and I still don't know what exactly he did wrong apart from coaching the Wallabies (and beating the All Blacks). That was my point.
I'm with you on Deans. Good coach - and you saw how he managed to coax the best out of the Wobbles, despite the political snake pit that is Australian Rugby
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@Dan54 still a better reason than being a friend of the previous coach.
Christ on a bike, the mental hoops you have to jump through to expect that Foster brings nothing to the table and that Wayne Smith and Steve Hansen had him in the room because they were mates is ridiculous.
I hate defending Foster, he should have gone last year, but it's cheap and shallow to just say 'he's mates with the previous coach'. He was a continuity candidate, and frankly it was not unreasonable to appoint. Risky from the cheap seats, but you could see why they did it. Foster hasn't worked out as a head coach, but he clearly brings a lot to the table - Hansen, Smith and all the current senior players seem to rate him.
also, I just threw up in my mouth a bit.
Really, though, Hansen should have stepped down in 2017, Foster screws the pooch in 18 and 19, and then we get a merit-based selection in 2020. NZR's governance over the last 4 (and arguably 6) years has been awful.
I hate defending Foster, he should have gone last year, but it's cheap and shallow to just say 'he's mates with the previous coach'.--I didn't actually say that. But I definitely left it open. So, ok.
What I meant and should have written is, success at a lower level has to be a consideration. And then as an example I wanted to compare it to the criteria they used for Foster. But the only thing I know for a fact that he keeps getting selected is the then coaches* picked him and liked him. He probably interviews well too.
I would like to know what criteria they use, I just don't know what the criteria is.So you think on a Foster thread I shouldn't use him as a comparison or phrase it differently? Ok. But I am still defending Deans here (because that was a cheap and shallow reference) as frankly, he gets some stick here and I still don't know what exactly he did wrong apart from coaching the Wallabies (and beating the All Blacks). That was my point.
*Edit: And senior ABs. Ok that is a good one.
@nostrildamus I not dissing Deans, I think he was a good coachm especially at Super level, was merely pointing success at lower level shouldn't alway be used as the barometer of a coach. Rassie Erasmus had no great sucess at lower levels same as Eddie Jones, sometimes slightly different skills needed. I alway thought Deans big weakness in coaching was his selection of players, and perhaps what counted against him at higher level. Regardless Deans said he could take Aussie higher up in the world, and farwhatever reason he didn't (a bit like Rennie at this stage)
