All Blacks vs Wales
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Loved the first try. DPs break and effective recycling, then the forwards go route 1 for the score
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@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Barnes was inventing breakdown infringements for the ABs that he let Wales get away with. Fact. And despite looking multiple times at Tipuric’s ball control over the line, we waved the try through. He’s a mediocre ref.
"Fact" eh? I think you prove my case.
The whole Tipuric "not having control" is a case in point. There is no requirement that a player have control of the ball to score a try. My copy of rules even has a picture showing that a person lying on the ball has scored. The only thing that matters is was the ball propelled forward from Tipuric's hand prior to the line, and so a knock-on. That he lost control in goal is utterly irrelevant (indeed the Try Law doesn't even mention the concept of control).
So bleating about the ref being an idiot, when you don't know the rules.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Barnes was inventing breakdown infringements for the ABs that he let Wales get away with. Fact. And despite looking multiple times at Tipuric’s ball control over the line, we waved the try through. He’s a mediocre ref.
"Fact" eh? I think you prove my case.
The whole Tipuric "not having control" is a case in point. There is no requirement that a player have control of the ball to score a try. My copy of rules even has a picture showing that a person lying on the ball has scored. The only thing that matters is was the ball propelled forward from Tipuric's hand prior to the line, and so a knock-on. That he lost control in goal is utterly irrelevant (indeed the Try Law doesn't even mention the concept of control).
So bleating about the ref being an idiot, when you don't know the rules.
I’m not getting into arguments about the laws. Barnes said he was checking for control, then decided there was when there wasn’t. Maybe ask him.
Your point was that we don’t criticise the NZ players and blame the ref instead. There is plenty of criticism. It’s possible to point out Barnes’s inconsistency and also the All Blacks. Most people here have been putting the boot into the ABs all year. How have you missed that?
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Was surprised at how forward oriented the approach was. Thought all the AB's played well except for Clarke. I rewatched some of his plays and think he is way out of synch with his positioning and lack of agility. Takes himself out of the defence regularly by over running or falling over. Average hands too.
For me we need to try JB and ALB in midfield and Rieko on the wing. But happy if Telea gets a deserved chance v Scotland.
Frizzell had good workrate but is not driving through tackles as well as he could. So Akira had the chance but failed to make the big efforts. Maybe Blackadder will be best option next year.
Aaron Smith and Savea were marvellous and a lot of very good touches from Jordie. Love his presence and impact at 12.
Taylor much more accurate today and Mounga too. Onwards and upwards.
I thought Barnes reffed well although some breakdown penalties seemed to surprise many. -
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Barnes was inventing breakdown infringements for the ABs that he let Wales get away with. Fact. And despite looking multiple times at Tipuric’s ball control over the line, we waved the try through. He’s a mediocre ref.
"Fact" eh? I think you prove my case.
The whole Tipuric "not having control" is a case in point. There is no requirement that a player have control of the ball to score a try. My copy of rules even has a picture showing that a person lying on the ball has scored. The only thing that matters is was the ball propelled forward from Tipuric's hand prior to the line, and so a knock-on. That he lost control in goal is utterly irrelevant (indeed the Try Law doesn't even mention the concept of control).
So bleating about the ref being an idiot, when you don't know the rules.
I’m not getting into arguments about the laws. Barnes said he was checking for control, then decided there was when there wasn’t. Maybe ask him.
Your point was that we don’t criticise the NZ players and blame the ref instead. There is plenty of criticism. It’s possible to point out Barnes’s inconsistency and also the All Blacks. Most people here have been putting the boot into the ABs all year. How have you missed that?
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Your point was that we don’t criticise the NZ players and blame the ref instead. There is plenty of criticism. It’s possible to point out Barnes’s inconsistency and also the All Blacks. Most people here have been putting the boot into the ABs all year. How have you missed that?
I never said that there was no criticism of players. You have read that into my post all by yourself.
I only said that the continued assertions that we are being cheated by the refs remind me very much of my time on Keo, and I find it tiresome.
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Just finished watching, and have skimmed this thread.
Have to say, the tone of the thread is way more negative than I expected - there really is a whining tone! I was thoroughly entertained by that, and I certainly don't agree that Barnes favoured them. Sure the breakdowns were a reffed a bit inconsistent, but jeez, that seems to be par for the course these days.
I have a bigger issue with the lengthy penalty advantages he played, but we both benefitted from that - I really wish there was a clearer directive from WR on this (time passed, # of phases allowed, metres gained, something!)
Some other rambling thoughts:
- I thought both Welsh tries were fine - the lineout try was beautiful to watch, the extra runner, we didn't know what the fuck was going on - clever and well executed. The "knock on" try was also fine, I didn't see any clear separation before the grounding, they should have looked at it once and decided "nothing clear, move on". I hate the endless views to find the 1mm of clear air to overturn the decision
- rugby is a funny game in that one week an action is fine, another can be a red card, the difference being a matter of millimetres or interpretation - 2 cases in point were a 1st half cleanout by us at a breakdown that looked suspiciously like Brodies last week, where the only area to target was the neck. The 2nd was the take by Faletau in the 51st min, where he did the Jordie high-knee action - if Paps does a soccer dive, it could have been very different
- how good to see Smith finally running - he won't make breaks like that all the time, but it keeps the D thinking
- Savea best on ground, and he finally passed it, yay! But fuck me, what an egg with that dive!
- I don't mind the Smith clearing box kick in play that we used a lot in the 1st half, it takes away a lineout maul and we obviously think we can defend better from there than from a lineout - but think we need to mix it up a bit with a longer clear from 10 sometimes
- Discipline and poor hands was pretty stark, was the dew that bad??? The Welsh didn't seem to have the same issues.
- Thought we could have fed the backs a little more - forwards and 10/12 pretty hungus. Jordie was great, straight hard running all day, but would like to see some variation - if he's not distributing, then using him as a dummy runner. We have a devastating runner in Clarke, and his only touches were loopy cut-outs with zero space
- Akira should have come on at HT, it was the perfect game for him
- The Richie tackle obviously awesome, but that was comically bad from Anscombe - how can someone at this level not instinctively switch the ball to the other hand to attempt a fend???!!!
- How wicked is it to have such an attacking threat in our lineout maul? A trusty thrower, simple, well-worked lineout moves, and a really good set-up. That Sami/Soni bloke goes pretty good too.
All-in-all, I really enjoyed that game!
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Haven't read the thread.
A few thoughts.
Good to see Taylor out of his slump.
Ardie and Papalii work together nicely. Ardie great ball running (and someone finally bought his dummy) whilst Papalii was brilliant I thought.
Not really sure what Frizell is adding.
Great to see Aaron Smith running.
Jordie is easily our best 12.
Wasn't very impressed by either winger. For a guy with a low centre of gravity Clarke really battles with his balance.
Thought the bench was good - Akira in particular.
Don't mind the flexibility of ALB coming on with Rieko sliding out to wing.
Our defence - cripes - it's really annoying to watch - either it's too passive or when it isn't passive it has no discipline - constantly getting pinged for not rolling away, offside etc. It just invites teams to kick deep for territory. Another gamd where McLeod's defence concedes 20+ points. It's ridiculous he's still there.
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This place is beginning to sound like Keo's with all the whinging about the refereeing. Not pointing out mistakes, or issues with the rules, but the allegations that only we are being screwed over.
If it is every game -- and from some on here it is every game -- then we are the problem, not the referees.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Wales:
This place is beginning to sound like Keo's with all the whinging about the refereeing. Not pointing out mistakes, or issues with the rules, but the allegations that only we are being screwed over.
If it is every game -- and from some on here it is every game -- then we are the problem, not the referees.
You kinda did say there was no criticism of players. Anyway, I’m out.
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From watching this with in the middle of the night: attacking well up the middle, but exits and defence poor.
Last year we beat Wales by 54 to 16, so this result doesn't mean much.
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Last year we beat Wales by 54 to 16, so this result doesn't mean much.
The game last year was played outside of the international window so Wales were missing 20+ players. In theory this was the stronger Welsh lineup.
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Haven't read the thread.
A few thoughts.
Good to see Taylor out of his slump.
Ardie and Papalii work together nicely. Ardie great ball running (and someone finally bought his dummy) whilst Papalii was brilliant I thought.
Not really sure what Frizell is adding.
Great to see Aaron Smith running.
Jordie is easily our best 12.
Wasn't very impressed by either winger. For a guy with a low centre of gravity Clarke really battles with his balance.
Thought the bench was good - Akira in particular.
Don't mind the flexibility of ALB coming on with Rieko sliding out to wing.
Our defence - cripes - it's really annoying to watch - either it's too passive or when it isn't passive it has no discipline - constantly getting pinged for not rolling away, offside etc. It just invites teams to kick deep for territory. Another gamd where McLeod's defence concedes 20+ points. It's ridiculous he's still there.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Thought the bench was good - Akira in particular.
Yeah, thought he and Vaai both looked good off the bench. Both came on late though.
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Was surprised at how forward oriented the approach was. Thought all the AB's played well except for Clarke. I rewatched some of his plays and think he is way out of synch with his positioning and lack of agility. Takes himself out of the defence regularly by over running or falling over. Average hands too.
For me we need to try JB and ALB in midfield and Rieko on the wing. But happy if Telea gets a deserved chance v Scotland.
Frizzell had good workrate but is not driving through tackles as well as he could. So Akira had the chance but failed to make the big efforts. Maybe Blackadder will be best option next year.
Aaron Smith and Savea were marvellous and a lot of very good touches from Jordie. Love his presence and impact at 12.
Taylor much more accurate today and Mounga too. Onwards and upwards.
I thought Barnes reffed well although some breakdown penalties seemed to surprise many.@ARHS loved the simplicity of the plan for the forwards. Don't worry about width, keep it tight and maintain possession. I noticed JBs little run in the buildup to Taylor's second try. Not a big one, but pushed his defender back to bend the line and keep the impetus of the attack. Loves that shit
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One thing I will say is that the ABs did not look like they were missing Sam Cane out there.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wales:
One thing I will say is that the ABs did not look like they were missing Sam Cane out there.
Big call for Fozz to make because Cane is his guy. DP has a couple more games to state his case
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@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Your point was that we don’t criticise the NZ players and blame the ref instead. There is plenty of criticism. It’s possible to point out Barnes’s inconsistency and also the All Blacks. Most people here have been putting the boot into the ABs all year. How have you missed that?
I never said that there was no criticism of players. You have read that into my post all by yourself.
I only said that the continued assertions that we are being cheated by the refs remind me very much of my time on Keo, and I find it tiresome.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Your point was that we don’t criticise the NZ players and blame the ref instead. There is plenty of criticism. It’s possible to point out Barnes’s inconsistency and also the All Blacks. Most people here have been putting the boot into the ABs all year. How have you missed that?
I never said that there was no criticism of players. You have read that into my post all by yourself.
I only said that the continued assertions that we are being cheated by the refs remind me very much of my time on Keo, and I find it tiresome.
I think you are putting words in people's mouths there, there were comments that Barnes has a very poor game, I don't recall anyone stating we were being cheated. I'm sure @MiketheSnow will have his own gripes about Barnes as well, I think both teams struggled with his interpretation of the breakdown.
