Foster, Robertson etc
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@MN5 I'm surprised that (to this point) none of the Hawkes Bay lads have mention McCrae and Davis. They were outstanding on the 67 tour of NH. Probably didn't play together enough at AB level to be real contenders but legends of that record setting HB team of the late 6's.
McRae was I think 6' and 14 stone (1.8 - 90 kg) which was enormous for the time.
Bruce Robertson would have excelled in the modern game, given how good he was in the very limited backlines of the 70's.
It pains me to say it as a Harbour supporter but as a combination i think Nonu and Smith shade Little/Bunce.
@dogmeat I only ever really got to see them in club rugby as I was too young to go to the Shield Defenses as the crowds were simply way too big and easy to get lost from my dad not to mention the long walk to and from where you had to park the car amongst large crowds. I do recall them playing most Saturdays as my father was a Taradale supporter so got to see Davis rather often whilst MacRae was at Marist Brothers Old Boys who were not a team Taradale people supported! However we did go the big games played by Napier Old Boys, Hastings Old Boys, Marist and MAC. Davis and MacRae naturally were our heroes (along with a number of other non AB HB players) and me and my brother just loved watching them play. Davis was silky smooth, much like Bruce RObertson and had good speed and a beautiful pass which me used to put his wingers into try scoring positions. Often that was py passing "into the gap" or often getting the opposition winger to come in to tackle him thus creating space for his own winger who was them in space with not much defence in fron of him.
MacRae was like something not seen before in so much as physically engaging into contact with other players, usually requiring two players to wrap him up thus there was space somewhere else for his team mates to exploit. Often this would involve him running into target a player not directly marking him thus getting his marker and the target to engage with him. You could probably call his style of play a forerunning of the way second fives play these days. I don't really recall him bashing his way through like they do nowadays but my memory is being stretched back to before I was even ten years old so he may have done but my overriding memory is often seeing players swarming around him, kind of like bees swarming around a honey pot. -
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
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With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
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With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.” -
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”@nostrildamus said in Foster:
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”Sounds like a crash-ball merchant to me...
Kidding kidding - but seriously, he is listed at 95-96kgs depending where you look, not quite the 108-109kgs Alatini (apparently Jones, thanks Bones) has him at.
Anyone got a line on an accurate count?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”Sounds like a crash-ball merchant to me...
Kidding kidding - but seriously, he is listed at 95-96kgs depending where you look, not quite the 108-109kgs Alatini (apparently Jones, thanks Bones) has him at.
Anyone got a line on an accurate count?
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”Sounds like a crash-ball merchant to me...
Kidding kidding - but seriously, he is listed at 95-96kgs depending where you look, not quite the 108-109kgs Alatinu has him at.
Anyone got a line on an accurate count?
I would have guessed around the 102 mark or a little more but not as heavy as 108 ,
I just think at 6 foot 5 , if he was only 95 he would look thinner than he does
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”Sounds like a crash-ball merchant to me...
Kidding kidding - but seriously, he is listed at 95-96kgs depending where you look, not quite the 108-109kgs Alatinu has him at.
Anyone got a line on an accurate count?
I would have guessed around the 102 mark or a little more but not as heavy as 108 ,
I just think at 6 foot 5 , if he was only 95 he would look thinner than he does
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”Sounds like a crash-ball merchant to me...
Kidding kidding - but seriously, he is listed at 95-96kgs depending where you look, not quite the 108-109kgs Alatini (apparently Jones, thanks Bones) has him at.
Anyone got a line on an accurate count?
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”Sounds like a crash-ball merchant to me...
Kidding kidding - but seriously, he is listed at 95-96kgs depending where you look, not quite the 108-109kgs Alatinu has him at.
Anyone got a line on an accurate count?
It was Ian Jones that said that. The same Ian Jones that thinks Taukieaho is greedy and doesn't so much care about the advantage line when it comes to hooker.
Anyway I'd pick Jordie at easily 105+
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Ian Jones got Jordie's height conversion wrong so I wouldn't rely on him for weight: 196cm is I think 6 foot 5, not 6 foot 4.
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Ian Jones got Jordie's height conversion wrong so I wouldn't rely on him for weight: 196cm is I think 6 foot 5, not 6 foot 4.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ian Jones got Jordie's height conversion wrong so I wouldn't rely on him for weight: 196cm is I think 6 foot 5, not 6 foot 4.
And when was that height taken, was it with shoes or his rugby boots on?
The only thing more inaccurate than rugby weights and heights is NBA weights and heights.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ian Jones got Jordie's height conversion wrong so I wouldn't rely on him for weight: 196cm is I think 6 foot 5, not 6 foot 4.
And when was that height taken, was it with shoes or his rugby boots on?
The only thing more inaccurate than rugby weights and heights is NBA weights and heights.
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ian Jones got Jordie's height conversion wrong so I wouldn't rely on him for weight: 196cm is I think 6 foot 5, not 6 foot 4.
And when was that height taken, was it with shoes or his rugby boots on?
The only thing more inaccurate than rugby weights and heights is NBA weights and heights.
Yup but his height does seem to be usually reported as that and he looks that height he's no Ardie Savea.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ian Jones got Jordie's height conversion wrong so I wouldn't rely on him for weight: 196cm is I think 6 foot 5, not 6 foot 4.
And when was that height taken, was it with shoes or his rugby boots on?
The only thing more inaccurate than rugby weights and heights is NBA weights and heights.
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ian Jones got Jordie's height conversion wrong so I wouldn't rely on him for weight: 196cm is I think 6 foot 5, not 6 foot 4.
And when was that height taken, was it with shoes or his rugby boots on?
The only thing more inaccurate than rugby weights and heights is NBA weights and heights.
They should do a weigh in before each game for accuracies sake just like fighting sports.
Behind closed doors is fine, we don’t need 46 players going through the motions on live TV.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”Sounds like a crash-ball merchant to me...
Kidding kidding - but seriously, he is listed at 95-96kgs depending where you look, not quite the 108-109kgs Alatini (apparently Jones, thanks Bones) has him at.
Anyone got a line on an accurate count?
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
With midfielders one stepper and one straight is the way. Doesn't matter which way around(12,13) or even if one or other can do both. As long as one player looks for a weakness and one straightens. That checks the defensive enough that the fullback can watch and direct the next move, either shooting up as an extra or calling it wide and going to support.
Until JB stepped in I feel like we lacked the straightener
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/07/alatinis-all-blacks-midfield-for-2023-world-cup/
“I think we have to definitely have a look at the performances that Jordie has produced in the 12 jersey in the last two Tests,” Alatini told SENZ’s The Run Home. “Jordie at 12 is a weapon, an absolute weapon,” Jones told SENZ’s The Rugby Run. “The guy is six-foot-four, he’s 108, 109 kgs, gets over the gain line … once we get over the gain line and we analyse the game, then we can play. “If you can’t dominate the gain line, if you can’t get go-forward ball, if you can’t push the opposition back … the game of rugby’s hard. “We don’t want to make it hard, we want to be able to dominate the gain line and dominate the game.”Sounds like a crash-ball merchant to me...
Kidding kidding - but seriously, he is listed at 95-96kgs depending where you look, not quite the 108-109kgs Alatini (apparently Jones, thanks Bones) has him at.
Anyone got a line on an accurate count?
was talking to him at a weetbix breakfast a couple of years back and he said he was 90kg then. Skinny as fark.
no way in hell has he put on 20kgs since then
95 would be pretty accurate I'd say -
I think in the scale of things, Jones will be pretty much on the money.
Jordie has to be a minimum of 105kgs - which is what Rieko is listed at and I think is pretty much right. Bovidae posted a gold standard video of ALB weighing himself at 102.8kgs and Jordie's height has to have him more than that these days.
And there's no shortage of photos of the Barrett boys together - Scott around 120kgs, Beauden 94kgs - and Jordie about halfway between.
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Whichever way you lean, this is a much better use of a thread than going around in circles talking about bloody Foster and Robertson
Wasn't Foster Backs coach when Nonu really developed after 2011 from being a potentially great 12 into arguably the best in Black ever? :fishing_pole:
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I think in the scale of things, Jones will be pretty much on the money.
Jordie has to be a minimum of 105kgs - which is what Rieko is listed at and I think is pretty much right. Bovidae posted a gold standard video of ALB weighing himself at 102.8kgs and Jordie's height has to have him more than that these days.
And there's no shortage of photos of the Barrett boys together - Scott around 120kgs, Beauden 94kgs - and Jordie about halfway between.
@Chris-B said in Foster:
I think in the scale of things, Alatini will be pretty much on the money.
Jordie has to be a minimum of 105kgs - which is what Rieko is listed at and I think is pretty much right. Bovidae posted a gold standard video of ALB weighing himself at 102.8kgs and Jordie's height has to have him more than that these days.
And there's no shortage of photos of the Barrett boys together - Scott around 120kgs, Beauden 94kgs - and Jordie about halfway between.
there is zero chance that Reeks is 105. His old man gave a bunch of his training kit from last season to a mate of mine.. he's about 185 not carrying much body fat crossfitter who's about 93kgs and he couldn't even get the jersey on!
He's skinny as fark - remember how he made an effort was it last year to drop a bit of weight to improve his sharpness.
ALB carries a lot more errr.. 'beef' than Jordie -
@Chris-B said in Foster:
I think in the scale of things, Alatini will be pretty much on the money.
Jordie has to be a minimum of 105kgs - which is what Rieko is listed at and I think is pretty much right. Bovidae posted a gold standard video of ALB weighing himself at 102.8kgs and Jordie's height has to have him more than that these days.
And there's no shortage of photos of the Barrett boys together - Scott around 120kgs, Beauden 94kgs - and Jordie about halfway between.
there is zero chance that Reeks is 105. His old man gave a bunch of his training kit from last season to a mate of mine.. he's about 185 not carrying much body fat crossfitter who's about 93kgs and he couldn't even get the jersey on!
He's skinny as fark - remember how he made an effort was it last year to drop a bit of weight to improve his sharpness.
ALB carries a lot more errr.. 'beef' than Jordie@WillieTheWaiter yeah he’s got a bit of muscle on the arms but other than that he’s got a very slim build.
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@DaGrubster said in Foster:
Yes he was.
By the end of 2015, Nonu was arguably the best 12 ever, not just NZ’s
As this thread has a nostalgic bent, I'll throw this in....
Seen many of the great players and Ireland's Mike Gibson is way, way up there - an absolute legend and those who played against him - Meads, Kirkpatrick, Batty, BG Williams, Laidlaw, etc - thought him the best player of their generation. I saw Gibson live as a teenager, seen loads of videos and never thought I'd see a better 12 - until Ma'a came along.
He is the best 12 I've seen based on his form from 2011 onward. Not just his size and speed but his skill and guile and also the way he played the game. Delaying going to hospital with a broken arm so he could hang his jersey on JP de Villiers peg as it was the latter's 100th Test sums up the bloke - class and humility in spades.
