Orlando shooting + terrorism thread

Baron Silas Greenback

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="593688" data-time="1467502967">
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well you're doing a sterling job of that.
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I know, but to be fair you make it quite easy. You being a someone who just makes up a narrative to argue against helps no end.
 
And what were you saying about having to have the last word?

Baron Silas Greenback

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I will be happy to answer, once you admit your false narrative and made up bullshit. or at least actually answer my query for proof of your assertion.
 
I know it is the usual regressive left way to throw out false narratives and accusations and just hope they dont get called on them.. 
 
I made a point, and unlike you it was actually about a topic and not a poster. You then decided to started yelling bigot!
 
You don't have to agree with the point, but it was incredibly illustrative that in response, you didn't attack the point, you attacked me. And then you have the cheek to accuse me of name calling.. .. you think you should be allowed to use pejorative terms and nobody else?.. or just your regressive left mates? And then you call me a hypocrite.. lol
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Again with making stuff up.
 
I never said I have no sympathy, just not much on the scale of things.
 
 
This is what I said
 
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Oh yeah.. poor Muslims.. my heart bleeds.
Must be horrible to have all those nasty words said about your religion. Much better to have bullets and bombs thrown at you.
 
Islam just says to murder gays. How dare people criticise that?? Wont someone think of the poor people who follow such a hateful religion?
 
If all else fails.. just blame Trump.
 
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I stand by it, I think Muslims or others crying about mean words being said about the religion they chose to follow is nothing compared to actually murdering people. I would prefer nobody was attacked. But there is a scale to these things. 
 
At no point have I said I have no sympathy, this is just another example of your dishonesty. I even corrected your assertion already... yet you persist.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="593689" data-time="1467503501">
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you see, from a very cursory inspection i don't have a problem with that site at all. here's a quote from it:
 
The Muslims that you know are not terrorists. More than likely, their interests in life are similar to yours and they have the same ambitions for their children. They should neither be shunned, mistreated, nor disrespected merely because of their religion. Their property should not be abused, and neither should copies of the book they consider sacred be vandalized. Prejudging an individual by their group identity (or presumed group identity) is not only unethical, it is blatantly irrational, since group identity reveals absolutely nothing about a person. Every individual should be judged only on the basis of their own words and deeds. 
 
Which is entirely in line with my criticism of the baron's initial post saying he had no sympathy for muslims being mistreated.
 
and also the ramadan bombathon is pretty sweet.
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I agree with all that too, it also points out the amount of muslims killed by feral muslims .

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593698" data-time="1467505997">
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Again with making stuff up.
 
I never said I have no sympathy, just not much on the scale of things.
 
 
This is what I said
 
 
 
I stand by it, I think Muslims or others crying about mean words being said about the religion they chose to follow is nothing compared to actually murdering people. I would prefer nobody was attacked. But there is a scale to these things. 
 
At no point have I said I have no sympathy, this is just another example of your dishonesty. I even corrected your assertion already... yet you persist.
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but the article which you were talking about was about muslims being mistreated. at no stage did it, or anyone else, compare levels of sympathy for victims of violence to that. except you. and yet you are the one who keeps saying 'straw man'.
your implication was clearly that they didn't deserve sympathy because they were muslim. you're not real good at admitting when you do something wrong eh?

Baron Silas Greenback

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but the article which you were talking about was about muslims being mistreated. at no stage did it, or anyone else, compare levels of sympathy for victims of violence to that. except you. and yet you are the one who keeps saying 'straw man'.
your implication was clearly that they didn't deserve sympathy because they were muslim. you're not real good at admitting when you do something wrong eh?
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My implication? According to you. I dont care what you think the implications are, you are a proven liar.
 
and an apologist for ISIS.. see what i did there? Why do you support ISIS anyway?

reprobate

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My implication? According to you. I dont care what you think the implications are, you are a proven liar.
 
and an apologist for ISIS.. see what i did there? Why do you support ISIS anyway?
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um.. set up another straw man? evaded the subject? engaged in patently false name-calling? personal abuse? claimed a false premise in order to draw a conclusion?
 
nothing new, really.

Baron Silas Greenback

Pot ... kettle....
 
SO regressive... all those things are great when you do them right?
 
So why do you support ISIS?

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593734" data-time="1467516935">
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Pot ... kettle....
 
SO regressive... all those things are great when you do them right?
 
So why do you support ISIS?
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you keep using that word.... i do not think you know what it means.

Baron Silas Greenback

What you think isn't really important. 
 
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">â€œRegressive Leftâ€ is a political epithet used to describe those within the liberal camp who advocate progressive values but also tolerate certain illiberal ideologies in defense of multiculturalism, most often in the context of radical extremism within
 
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canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593755" data-time="1467529058">What you think isn't really important. </blockquote>Nothing like good honest debate

Baron Silas Greenback

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Nothing like good honest debate
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Reprobate gave up the honest part long ago......

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593755" data-time="1467529058">
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What you think isn't really important. 
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such an angry man. 
 
i don't fit the regressive definition you've given unfortunately - i'm opposed to religious extremism, and opposed to anybody hurting or oppressing anybody else. 
you don't seen to understand that someone can be opposed to that, and at the same time be tolerant towards muslims who are not hurting anyone... which suggests a pretty simplistic view of things. 
 
let's put it in little words:
 
just because i don't agree with you, does not mean i support ISIS.
 
but you're welcome to ask me again why i support them. free speech is good, innit.

Baron Silas Greenback

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such an angry man. 
 
i don't fit the regressive definition you've given unfortunately - i'm opposed to religious extremism, and opposed to anybody hurting or oppressing anybody else. 
you don't seen to understand that someone can be opposed to that, and at the same time be tolerant towards muslims who are not hurting anyone... which suggests a pretty simplistic view of things. 
 
let's put it in little words:
 
just because i don't agree with you, does not mean i support ISIS.
 
but you're welcome to ask me again why i support them. free speech is good, innit.
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But you said you support ISIS. Why do you? Is it because they kill gays?
Why do you hate gays? 
Just making up stuff and claiming others said it is fun! I can see why you are addicted to it.
 
Remember when you talked about having the last word?

reprobate

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593770" data-time="1467534867">
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But you said you support ISIS. Why do you? Is it because they kill gays?
Why do you hate gays? 
Just making up stuff and claiming others said it is fun! I can see why you are addicted to it.
 
Remember when you talked about having the last word?
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yep, and this is why i'm not letting you have the last word me old mate. this is your usual style: rant and abuse until the other person gets sick of it and leaves you to it - and somehow you think you can claim that as a victory for your argument. 
 
i've done my best to explain to you why what you said was wrong - in response, here we are with you telling me i support ISIS and hate gays. i think imma gonna have to call you childish again soon.

Baron Silas Greenback

Canefan can have the last word on this particular sup topic.

gollum

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My implication? According to you. I dont care what you think the implications are, you are a proven liar.
 
and an apologist for ISIS.. see what i did there? Why do you support ISIS anyway?
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593734" data-time="1467516935">
<div> So why do you support ISIS?
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="593678" data-time="1467499031">
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No, it is actually more about proving how full of shit you actually are.
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Its the level of thought that goes into these that impresses me. It really does.

gollum

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://imgur.com/rM7in8K'>http://imgur.com/rM7in8K</a>

Tim

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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/no-evidence-so-far-to-suggest-orlando-shooter-targeted-club-because-it-was-gay/2016/07/14/a7528674-4907-11e6-acbc-4d4870a079da_story.html'> FBI has found no evidence that Orlando shooter targeted Pulse because it was a gay club</a> 
By Adam Goldman 
The FBI has found no evidence so far that Omar Mateen, who killed 49 people and wounded more than 53 at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, chose the popular establishment because of its gay clientele, U.S law enforcement officials said. 
â€œWhile there can be no denying the significant impact on the gay community, the investigation hasnâ€t revealed that he targeted Pulse because it was a gay club,â€ a U.S. law enforcement official said. 
Soon after the shooting in the early morning of June 12, top U.S officials such as the FBI director and U.S. attorney general described it as both a hate crime and an act of Islamic terrorism. The shooting rattled the gay community, which felt singled out by Mateen. 
â€œPeople often act out of more than one motivation,â€ Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch said in the days after the attack. â€œThis was clearly an act of terror and an act of hate.â€ 
A month later, though, a complete picture of what motivated Mateen remains murky and may never be known since he was killed in a shootout with police and did not leave a manifesto. Officials said there is no evidence thus far that Mateen, 29, was gay or that his attack was motivated by homophobia. 
The assessment is based on interviews and an examination of his computer and other electronic media. 
After the attack, speculation surfaced that Mateen was gay as people came forward to say they had seen him at the club previously and had contact with him on gay dating apps. One man told the Spanish-language television network Univision that he had slept with Mateen. 
Even Mateenâ€s first wife, Sitora Yusufiy, raised the possibility that Mateen was possibly gay but conceded it was a suspicion and nothing more. His current wife did not think he was gay, according to a person familiar with the case. 
The FBI, however, has been unable to verify that Mateen used gay dating apps and instead has found evidence that Mateen was cheating on his wife with other women. 
Officials said there is nothing to suggest that he attempted to cover up his tracks by deleting files. They also added he did not make gay slurs during the shooting spree inside the club, based on witnesses. 
In a 911 call, Mateen pledged allegiance to the leader of the Islamic State and did not make any homophobic comments. FBI Director James B. Comey has said Mateen was radicalized and previously been the target of a terrorism investigation. 
Still, some maintain they had contact with Mateen on two gay dating apps, Grindr and Jackâ€d, and stand by their original claims. 
â€œI know Omar was definitely on Grindr,â€ said Cord Cedeno, 23, of Orlando. â€œOne of my good friends knew him from Adam4Adam app. Thereâ€s no reason to make this kind of thing up. I would never lie about anything like this.â€ 
Kevin West, 38, of Orlando, also maintains that he had numerous conversations with Mateen on a dating app for men. West said it is common for users of such apps to create and delete multiple profiles on multiple mobile devices, making histories hard to track. 
â€œHe is not the first and not going to be the last closet case to be on those apps,â€ West said of Mateen. 
On the day of the massacre, West drove to a police station in the Orlando suburb of Apopka to report that he recognized Mateen from the dating app. 
Neither West nor Cedeno said they saved any of these conversations on their phones. 
A spokesman for Jackâ€d has said the company has no records of Omar Mateen having an account, although it is possible that he used the app anonymously. 
A Grindr spokesman declined to comment. 
In the interview with Univision, a man named Miguel claimed he had a relationship with Mateen while living at the Ambassador Hotel in Orlando. He said the two saw each other for about two months. 
Melanie Mercado, who works at the hotel, said she thought she encountered someone who might have been Mateen. She thought she saw his face on the news. 
â€œI donâ€t want to say sure-sure, but itâ€s familiar,â€ she said. 
Albert Segev, a manager at the Ambassador Hotel, said FBI agents visited the hotel and sought records. 
Segev and Mercado said the hotel is equipped with surveillance cameras, but the footage is automatically deleted after 30 days, and they said they did not think it captured any of the interactions with the man who might have been Mateen. 
Orlando City Councilwoman Patty Sheehan said the gunmanâ€s motives or his sexuality matter less to her than how to restore a sense of security to a community devastated by loss. â€œThese families would like to see something good come out of this,â€ Sheehan said. 
Sheehan, who has served on the city council for 16 years and is gay, expressed frustration with Florida Gov. Rick Scott (R) and Attorney General Pam Bondi, both of whom visited Orlando in the days after the tragedy. 
â€œThey said, â€˜Weâ€re not going to talk about guns, and weâ€re not going to talk about gays; this is an attack on all Americans,â€â€‰â€ Sheehan said. â€œThatâ€s what they want the narrative to be, and thatâ€s nonsense. We need to have hate crimes on the books for LGBT, and we need weapons of war off our streets.â€ 
Earlier this week, there was a break-in at the Pulse nightclub soon after police turned the property back to its owner. 
â€œSince June 12, we have seen the worst and best of human behavior,â€ owner Barbara Poma said in a statement. â€œWe are disappointed that someone felt compelled to violate the privacy of our beloved Pulse Night Club and the sacred place it has now become. We have faith in the Orlando Police Department and its investigation of this break-in. The club will continue to remain closed to the public as we work to plan the future of Pulse.â€ 
Anne Hull and Matt Zapotosky contributed to this story. 

 
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Tim

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<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-mateen-steroid-hiv-20160715-snap-story.html'>Orlando gunman was HIV-negative, likely a long-term steroid user, autopsy shows</a> 
The autopsy of the gunman who massacred 49 people in a Florida nightclub attack last month revealed he was HIV-negative and likely a long-term user of steroids, two U.S. law enforcement officials said. 
The revelation comes as FBI agents continue to scour the background of Omar Mateen for clues as to why he launched his June 12 rampage at Orlandoâ€s Pulse nightclub, the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. 
The 29-year-old had became radicalized in recent years, FBI officials have said, and pledged allegiance to Islamic State militants during his attack. 
Federal investigators are not sure if steroids played a role in the shooting. A medical examiner found evidence of physical changes to Mateenâ€s body that were consistent with long-term steroid use, the officials said, and is seeking to confirm that assessment through further testing. 
The National Institute on Drug Abuse reports on its website that using high doses of steroids, which help build body mass and muscle, â€œincrease irritability and aggression. Some steroid abusers report that they have committed aggressive acts, such as physical fighting or armed robbery, theft, vandalism, or burglary.â€ 
A spokeswoman for the Orange County, Fla. medical examiner declined to comment on the preliminary findings. 
â€œWhether or not an individual used steroids can be determined through specimen tests,â€ Carrie Proudfit, the spokeswoman wrote in an email. â€œToxicology reports would reflect those results. They'll be made available to law enforcement.â€ 
Proudfit referred further questions to the FBI. Bureau spokeswoman Carol Cratty declined to comment. 
The results, if confirmed through further testing, would not be entirely surprising. Mateenâ€s ex-wife, Sitora Yusufiy, told reporters shortly after the shooting that the former security guard had a history of steroid use. A former coworker of Mateenâ€s told CBS News that the gunman told him in 2006 that he had started using steroids. 
The law enforcement officials also disclosed that the autopsy determined that Mateen was HIV-negative. 
On June 21, Spanish-language television network Univision aired a report in which â€œMiguel,â€ a man wearing a disguise to conceal his identity, alleged that he had sex with Mateen after meeting him on a gay dating app. Miguel said Mateen had sex with other men too, including a threesome with a Puerto Rican who allegedly told Mateen, after having had unprotected sex with him, that he was HIV-positive. 
Several Pulse regulars have also come forward, claiming to have seen Mateen at the club or to have been contacted by him on the gay dating apps Grindr, Jack'd and Adam4Adam. 
The FBI, however, has been unable to find evidence to corroborate such claims. Agents have failed to find any photographs, text messages, smartphone apps, gay pornography or cell-tower location data that suggest that Mateen -- who was twice married to women and had a young son -- had a secret gay life, law enforcement officials have told The Times.
 
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mariner4life

Seems like that situation in NY is barreling along, with the suspect resisting arrest this morning. and so a shoot out. He survived though.

I walked right by the location of that blast in June, and bought drinks (to try and cure my significant hangover) from the corner store you see on the footage.

It's a very strange location for an act of terrorism though, considering it's only a couple of blocks from the Flat Iron building, and a lot more people.

The Silver Fern

Orlando shooting + terrorism thread