Foster, Robertson etc
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
The meltdown from Razor fans would be huge and the pile on after an off performance the same.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams.
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
The meltdown from Razor fans would be huge and the pile on after an off performance the same.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams.
Yeah, Scott Robertson is certainly not innovative - lol
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@chchfanatic said in Foster, Robertson etc:
The fish heads in nzrfu don’t like him.
What are the reasons they don't like him?
I can't believe I'm engaging with this thread.
My guess is that he is seen as a risk. It's not clear that his methods will translate to the international arena.
He was sounded out about being brought onto the AB coaching team and said, no, I only want the top job. This would mean that any change to him as the head coach would go against the develop, promote philosophy that NZ rugby seems to prefer. My guess is it would also mean a complete change in team - no Shand, no whoever else. That might not be a bad thing at all, but it would likely make him be considered a risk as he can't be judged within that environment, or with another team before being handed the reins.
If I compare his attitude to Ryans - who when asked to contribute to the ABs as an assistant, he jumped at it straight away. Whether they are wrong or not, I can imagine the NZRU appreciating that attitude.
I also think that there may be some hangover from the 2016 U20s. That team might not have been the strongest, but they had five future ABs (Barrett, Paps, Aumua, Jacobson, Perofeta) and some that are or have been very close (MMT, Stevenson, Strange, Walker-Leawere). Not making the playoffs with that level of quality in his last team with a team brought together quickly probably doesn't help, and it's not clear what the review showed (edit: it's worth noting that some of the players mentioned above were in that team).
BTW, I think @Bones is right with his points that some may view him overworking his senior players and making them not be set-up for success with the ABs. If he was asked for some moderation and refused, he won't have improved his standing with the fishheads either.
All of this is speculation, someone like @chchfanatic or others will likely have some better info, but those would be the concerns I might have if I were trying to evaluate him against others (e.g., Joseph).
@gt12 my info comes from a pretty reliable source. There’s guys on here that know my source so would call me out if I’m bullshitting.
Razor is not an assistant coach. He will tell you that. Jason Ryan is not a head coach.
I’m a biased Razor fan but I would accept it if JJ got the job. He’s a great coach who may be better than Razor. There’s a lot of one eyed cantabrians who won’t accept it though.
I personally think rugbys popularity is fading very fast. It’s a terrible game to watch compared to a few years ago. Whoever is the next coach needs to reinvigorate the whole rugby population. I think razor can do that. But so could JJ and Tony Brown.
I don’t think the Barrett’s don’t like razor , I just think they didn’t want a sudden change of coach. -
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
The meltdown from Razor fans would be huge and the pile on after an off performance the same.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams.
Yeah, Scott Robertson is certainly not innovative - lol
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
The meltdown from Razor fans would be huge and the pile on after an off performance the same.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams.
Yeah, Scott Robertson is certainly not innovative - lol
Deliberate misquote?
Not what I said at all. -
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
The meltdown from Razor fans would be huge and the pile on after an off performance the same.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams.
Yeah, Scott Robertson is certainly not innovative - lol
Deliberate misquote?
Not what I said at all. -
@Crucial
Robertson coaches the Saders. So by saying they are not innovative, you are saying he isn't, which is bollocks.@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial
Robertson coaches the Saders. So by saying they are not innovative, you are saying he isn't, which is bollocks.No. You’ve deliberately taken what I wrote out of context.
Holland’s teams and Razors teams don’t show the same level of innovation that Brown’s do.
Never said they weren’t innovative. Said that I don’t see that same level. -
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
The meltdown from Razor fans would be huge and the pile on after an off performance the same.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams.
Probably would see a meltdown ,But I am one Razor fan who wouldn't.I would be happy with a change from Foster and hope we get better results.
Same. I am not sure too many on here would have a meltdown if Robertson missed out to someone decent. The meltdown would be biblical if Foster was reappointed though
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
The meltdown would be biblical if Foster was reappointed though
Wouldn't that mean only one thing, i.e., the ABs had won the RWC.
As I've said previously, I don't think Foster will continue beyond this year either way.
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My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on. -
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial
Robertson coaches the Saders. So by saying they are not innovative, you are saying he isn't, which is bollocks.No. You’ve deliberately taken what I wrote out of context.
Holland’s teams and Razors teams don’t show the same level of innovation that Brown’s do.
Never said they weren’t innovative. Said that I don’t see that same level.@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial
Robertson coaches the Saders. So by saying they are not innovative, you are saying he isn't, which is bollocks.No. You’ve deliberately taken what I wrote out of context.
Holland’s teams and Razors teams don’t show the same level of innovation that Brown’s do.
Never said they weren’t innovative. Said that I don’t see that same level.Unless I am missing something ( which is entirely possible) you didn't actually say 'same level'. So I can see why your post was interpreted that way.
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Apologies for not writing in crayon.
Point was that I like the idea of Brown.
We need to be innovative to unlock defences at test level and that’s a special area of his.
I don’t see similar innovation in unlocking defences from Holland or the Crusaders.Join all the points together and it’s fairly clear what I was getting at.
Then I get accused of declaring that Razor isn’t innovative.
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
The meltdown from Razor fans would be huge and the pile on after an off performance the same.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams.
Probably would see a meltdown ,But I am one Razor fan who wouldn't.I would be happy with a change from Foster and hope we get better results.
Same. I am not sure too many on here would have a meltdown if Robertson missed out to someone decent. The meltdown would be biblical if Foster was reappointed though
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
The meltdown from Razor fans would be huge and the pile on after an off performance the same.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams.
Probably would see a meltdown ,But I am one Razor fan who wouldn't.I would be happy with a change from Foster and hope we get better results.
Same. I am not sure too many on here would have a meltdown if Robertson missed out to someone decent. The meltdown would be biblical if Foster was reappointed though
100% agree.
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Apologies for not writing in crayon.
Point was that I like the idea of Brown.
We need to be innovative to unlock defences at test level and that’s a special area of his.
I don’t see similar innovation in unlocking defences from Holland or the Crusaders.Join all the points together and it’s fairly clear what I was getting at.
Then I get accused of declaring that Razor isn’t innovative.
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Apologies for not writing in crayon.
Point was that I like the idea of Brown.
We need to be innovative to unlock defences at test level and that’s a special area of his.
I don’t see similar innovation in unlocking defences from Holland or the Crusaders.Join all the points together and it’s fairly clear what I was getting at.
Then I get accused of declaring that Razor isn’t innovative.
No need to apologise as long as you learn from your mistakes.
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Apologies for not writing in crayon.
Point was that I like the idea of Brown.
We need to be innovative to unlock defences at test level and that’s a special area of his.
I don’t see similar innovation in unlocking defences from Holland or the Crusaders.Join all the points together and it’s fairly clear what I was getting at.
Then I get accused of declaring that Razor isn’t innovative.
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think the more pertinent question is why do the Barrett's, who it appears run NZ rugby, not like him?
Because he surfs?
Surfings pretty big in the Naki, I'd have picked Broden to be a surfer but Scooter's head is probably too big for him to balance properly.
And it is a well known fact that giraffes can't surf.
Or break dance
@Darren said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think the more pertinent question is why do the Barrett's, who it appears run NZ rugby, not like him?
Because he surfs?
Surfings pretty big in the Naki, I'd have picked Broden to be a surfer but Scooter's head is probably too big for him to balance properly.
And it is a well known fact that giraffes can't surf.
Or break dance
But they can (mathematically, at least) swim. And that I didn't know before I read this thread today:
https://www.scientific-computing.com/analysis-opinion/sink-or-swim-giraffes-take-water -
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
My Pick here is Jamie Joseph with Tony Brown as assistant will be the next AB coach.
I think Mary Banks legend has it spot on.I doubt it will happen, but honestly speaking, that's a pretty hard team to beat if they can also add Jase Ryan with the forwards.
I'd have Brown over Holland and Joseph has Super success and international experience.
Does anyone have an idea who a Joseph-Brown team would prefer to coach the forwards?
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial
Robertson coaches the Saders. So by saying they are not innovative, you are saying he isn't, which is bollocks.No. You’ve deliberately taken what I wrote out of context.
Holland’s teams and Razors teams don’t show the same level of innovation that Brown’s do.
Never said they weren’t innovative. Said that I don’t see that same level.@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
No. You’ve deliberately taken what I wrote out of context.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. **I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams**.Given Razor coaches the Crusaders I don't think Frank was wrong to put 2 and 2 together, whether it was written in crayon or not..
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
No. You’ve deliberately taken what I wrote out of context.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. **I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams**.Given Razor coaches the Crusaders I don't think Frank was wrong to put 2 and 2 together, whether it was written in crayon or not..
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
No. You’ve deliberately taken what I wrote out of context.
I like that coaching option as well. Mainly because of Brown. The key to future AB success is unlocking defences and innovation. **I don't see that from Holland or from Saders teams**.Given Razor coaches the Crusaders I don't think Frank was wrong to put 2 and 2 together, whether it was written in crayon or not..
That’s the trouble if you try maths without a calculator.
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@chchfanatic said in Foster, Robertson etc:
The fish heads in nzrfu don’t like him.
What are the reasons they don't like him?
I can't believe I'm engaging with this thread.
My guess is that he is seen as a risk. It's not clear that his methods will translate to the international arena.
He was sounded out about being brought onto the AB coaching team and said, no, I only want the top job. This would mean that any change to him as the head coach would go against the develop, promote philosophy that NZ rugby seems to prefer. My guess is it would also mean a complete change in team - no Shand, no whoever else. That might not be a bad thing at all, but it would likely make him be considered a risk as he can't be judged within that environment, or with another team before being handed the reins.
If I compare his attitude to Ryans - who when asked to contribute to the ABs as an assistant, he jumped at it straight away. Whether they are wrong or not, I can imagine the NZRU appreciating that attitude.
I also think that there may be some hangover from the 2016 U20s. That team might not have been the strongest, but they had five future ABs (Barrett, Paps, Aumua, Jacobson, Perofeta) and some that are or have been very close (MMT, Stevenson, Strange, Walker-Leawere). Not making the playoffs with that level of quality in his last team with a team brought together quickly probably doesn't help, and it's not clear what the review showed (edit: it's worth noting that some of the players mentioned above were in that team).
BTW, I think @Bones is right with his points that some may view him overworking his senior players and making them not be set-up for success with the ABs. If he was asked for some moderation and refused, he won't have improved his standing with the fishheads either.
All of this is speculation, someone like @chchfanatic or others will likely have some better info, but those would be the concerns I might have if I were trying to evaluate him against others (e.g., Joseph).
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
BTW, I think @Bones is right with his points that some may view him overworking his senior players and making them not be set-up for success with the ABs. If he was asked for some moderation and refused, he won't have improved his standing with the fishheads either.
Lol, you realize this isn't the Top 14 or URC where there's 25 games + Euro champions cup on top of that..
Razor is no different to the other SR coaches with their All Blacks - Jason Holland has virtually had Jordie Barrett playing every minute of the last World Cup cycle for the Hurricanes without a break.
13 games of Super Rugby isn't a massive workload at all.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
BTW, I think @Bones is right with his points that some may view him overworking his senior players and making them not be set-up for success with the ABs. If he was asked for some moderation and refused, he won't have improved his standing with the fishheads either.
Lol, you realize this isn't the Top 14 or URC where there's 25 games + Euro champions cup on top of that..
Razor is no different to the other SR coaches with their All Blacks - Jason Holland has virtually had Jordie Barrett playing every minute of the last World Cup cycle for the Hurricanes without a break.
13 games of Super Rugby isn't a massive workload at all.
@kiwi_expat pretty sure they don't play those 25 games in the same amount of time and they have rather large squads... i.e those players don't play week in, week out.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
BTW, I think @Bones is right with his points that some may view him overworking his senior players and making them not be set-up for success with the ABs. If he was asked for some moderation and refused, he won't have improved his standing with the fishheads either.
Lol, you realize this isn't the Top 14 or URC where there's 25 games + Euro champions cup on top of that..
Razor is no different to the other SR coaches with their All Blacks - Jason Holland has virtually had Jordie Barrett playing every minute of the last World Cup cycle for the Hurricanes without a break.
13 games of Super Rugby isn't a massive workload at all.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
BTW, I think @Bones is right with his points that some may view him overworking his senior players and making them not be set-up for success with the ABs. If he was asked for some moderation and refused, he won't have improved his standing with the fishheads either.
Lol, you realize this isn't the Top 14 or URC where there's 25 games + Euro champions cup on top of that..
13 games of Super Rugby isn't a massive workload at all.
Adding to that Barrett,Blackadder,Ennor,Mounga,Reece who are fit have not played any pre season games and Goodhue ,Whitelock,Newell,Havilli just 30 minutes.
Were the Chiefs and Canes and the Blues except for BB have all played their Ab's at least once. -
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
BTW, I think @Bones is right with his points that some may view him overworking his senior players and making them not be set-up for success with the ABs. If he was asked for some moderation and refused, he won't have improved his standing with the fishheads either.
Lol, you realize this isn't the Top 14 or URC where there's 25 games + Euro champions cup on top of that..
13 games of Super Rugby isn't a massive workload at all.
Adding to that Barrett,Blackadder,Ennor,Mounga,Reece who are fit have not played any pre season games and Goodhue ,Whitelock,Newell,Havilli just 30 minutes.
Were the Chiefs and Canes and the Blues except for BB have all played their Ab's at least once.
