Foster, Robertson etc
-
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
This site lists coaching stats - not sure they're 100% accurate, but they seem not far away....
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/coach/index.php?coachId=14
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/coach/index.php?coachId=16
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Joseph is treated similar to Rennie (on TSF) where seemingly the more his international side loses the more his reputation increases.
Let's hope NZR appoint this time based off actual on-field coaching results - as opposed to simply how well they interview.
The latter approach resulted in appointing a guy in 2019 without any record of success as a head coach at any level.
After all it remains the best predictor for future performance is past performance in a previous identical role.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Hansen had a 33% win record with Wales (10 wins in 30 games). He did OK with the ABs.
-
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Hansen had a 33% win record with Wales (10 wins in 30 games). He did OK with the ABs.
@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Hansen had a 33% win record with Wales (10 wins in 30 games). He did OK with the ABs.
Steve Hansen had very little experience as a coach when he took over Wales in 2002 - 1 year as Canterbury head coach & 2 years as Crusaders assist. coach. Hansen was only 42 years old at the time.
Joseph is currently 53, he has been head coaching for almost 20 years now (across 6 different teams).
-
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
This site lists coaching stats - not sure they're 100% accurate, but they seem not far away....
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/coach/index.php?coachId=14
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/coach/index.php?coachId=16
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Joseph is treated similar to Rennie (on TSF) where seemingly the more his international side loses the more his reputation increases.
Let's hope NZR appoint this time based off actual on-field coaching results - as opposed to simply how well they interview.
The latter approach resulted in appointing a guy in 2019 without any record of success as a head coach at any level.
After all it remains the best predictor for future performance is past performance in a previous identical role.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Joseph is treated similar to Rennie (on TSF) where seemingly the more his international side loses the more his reputation increases.
How exactly has Rennie's reputation increased on TSF since 2020?
It peaked when he drew with Foster in Bledisloe 1 2020 at the Cake Tin and has been on a downward spiral ever since.
-
@kiwi_expat you can take those results into consideration but surely cant base it purely on win rate...the players Razor has at his disposal would be better to a man than the japanese national team
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat you can take those results into consideration but surely cant base it purely on win rate...
While he led the Highlanders to their first ever Super Rugby title in 2015, just 3 of those 6 seasons ended with a winning record for the Highlanders (52%). And he managed 3 wins across two seasons with the Sunwolves (18%). If Ian Foster is an example of how NZ Rugby appoint a coach, their domestic record means extremely little.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat you can take those results into consideration but surely cant base it purely on win rate...
While he led the Highlanders to their first ever Super Rugby title in 2015, just 3 of those 6 seasons ended with a winning record for the Highlanders (52%). And he managed 3 wins across two seasons with the Sunwolves (18%). If Ian Foster is an example of how NZ Rugby appoint a coach, their domestic record means extremely little.
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
-
"The Herald understands, however, Schmidt is less than impressed by the way in which New Zealand Rugby have handled the appointment process, and he is therefore highly unlikely to challenge Robertson and Joseph or carry on with the All Blacks after the World Cup."
"Schmidt worked with the Blues, alongside Leon MacDonald, last year and could potentially slide seamlessly into a similar role there if he wishes to remain connected to the New Zealand game."
"McLeod has strong ties to Joseph and his lieutenant Tony Brown, with the trio working together at the Highlanders during the surge to their sole title in 2015. But with Robertson pushing his case for the top job there are no guarantees McLeod survives beyond this year, either."
-
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
-
@mariner4life it's Schmidt
-
-
@mariner4life yes he was informed 2 weeks afo
-
-
@mariner4life it's Schmidt
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
-
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
This site lists coaching stats - not sure they're 100% accurate, but they seem not far away....
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/coach/index.php?coachId=14
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/coach/index.php?coachId=16
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Joseph is treated similar to Rennie (on TSF) where seemingly the more his international side loses the more his reputation increases.
Let's hope NZR appoint this time based off actual on-field coaching results - as opposed to simply how well they interview.
The latter approach resulted in appointing a guy in 2019 without any record of success as a head coach at any level.
After all it remains the best predictor for future performance is past performance in a previous identical role.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
This site lists coaching stats - not sure they're 100% accurate, but they seem not far away....
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/coach/index.php?coachId=14
https://www.rugbydatabase.co.nz/coach/index.php?coachId=16
It appears that Joseph's record with Japan is even worse than I remember 47% (compared to Eddie's 66%).
Joseph is treated similar to Rennie (on TSF) where seemingly the more his international side loses the more his reputation increases.
Let's hope NZR appoint this time based off actual on-field coaching results - as opposed to simply how well they interview.
The latter approach resulted in appointing a guy in 2019 without any record of success as a head coach at any level.
After all it remains that the best predictor for future performance is past performance in a previous identical role.
Do you seriously compare a stacked Super team's results with a Tier 2/3 international one? Especially when said low tier side courts tier 1 games.
Japan probably play against more tier one sides than most lower tier countries.
Raw stats don't tell the story at all.
Otherwise Razor has a 0% test record. -
I'd like those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like for those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
Who is claiming that he is the better coach?
-
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like for those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
Who is claiming that he is the better coach?
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like for those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
Who is claiming that he is the better coach?
i refer you to my earlier translation. the actual words mean nothing
if old mate @george33 has some sort of secret sauce i reckon this joint is going to melt down and i am here for it.
-
still cant fathom how McLeod attract so little of the shade (in the media circus or in the circles that seem to matter) given our less than ideal defence over the years.
I mean, if our defence had been better, Fosters record would look better...
-
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like for those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
Who is claiming that he is the better coach?
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat i dont actually know what your trying to say now....do we or dont we base in on win rates regardless of how good the team they coached was?
let me translate
"Scott Robertson is the only choice no matter what criteria you choose and anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent"
the actual words don't matter.
Had the Fernies happened this was the easiest Broken Record winner in the history of the award
I'd like for those claiming Joseph is the better coach to at least attempt to back it up with some evidence - they can't.
Joseph has had a couple of notable successes interspersed between inconsistent poor results and that has been a constant throughout his coaching career - Wellington, Maori All Blacks, Highlanders, Japan. His record is good on the surface level however upon closer examination it's not nearly as impressive as people make it to be, he's almost developed a bit of a mythical status where people have extremely selective memories, his reputation isn't affected by performances and poor results simply equates to good international experience.
Who is claiming that he is the better coach?
was just about to ask the same thing, the most ive seen is acknowledgement that he might also be in the running...one of the most JJ supportive comments being something like "i wouldn't mind if he got it"...a long way from anyone saying he was a significantly better coach
