All Black captains winning %

MN5

@Stag said in All Black captains winning %:

Interesting points;
-Buck was just an outstanding leader
-Richie was our greatest ever captain
-Thorne was a remarkable leader coming in after a sustained period of poor All Black results, and set the foundations for the success that followed with Umaga & MaCaw
-Cane not even registering, but Whitelock does, even thought they have captained the All Blacks largely over the same era.

All Black Captains with
Test Winning Percentage
Tests Captained and Period

Buck Shelford 96% 14
1988 to 1990

Richie McCaw 89% 110 2004 to 2015

Andy Dalton 88% 17
1981 to 1985

Rueben Thorne 87% 23 2002 to 2007

Tana Umaga 86% 21
2004 to 2005

Kieran Read 85% 52
2012 to 2019

Brian Lochore 83% 18
1966 to 1970

Sam Whitelock 83% 18
2017 to 2022

David Kirk 82% 11
1986 to 1987

Gary Whetton 80% 15 1990 to 1991

Anton Oliver 80% 10
2001

Graham Mourie 79% 19 Tests 1977 to 1982

Wilson Whineray 78%
30 1958 to 1965

Sean Fitzpatrick 77% 51 1992 to 1997

Ian Kirkpatrick 72% 9
1972 to 1973

Todd Blackadder 70% 10 2000

All Black Captains under 70% winning ratio not included and minimum 9 tests as captain required

Ah right, I was about to get offended on Paul Hendersons behalf but I won’t now

Kiwiwomble

@Machpants said in All Black captains winning %:

@Stag can you list those that are less than 70%? Minimum 9 is fine, but name and shame!

sam cane

@Stag said in All Black captains winning %:

-Thorne was a remarkable leader coming in after a sustained period of poor All Black results, and set the foundations for the success that followed with Umaga & MaCaw

would we say remarkable? 23 games over 6 seasons seems very light, was he injured lots?

mariner4life

@Kiwiwomble said in All Black captains winning %:

would we say remarkable? 23 games over 6 seasons seems very light, was he injured lots?

Tana took over as captain in 2004 and he was out of the team a lot.

Kiwiwomble

@mariner4life truly remarkable

Stag

@Kiwiwomble 22 games in his stint as captain and then filled in as captain for one game some years later which created that anomaly

mariner4life

@Kiwiwomble said in All Black captains winning %:

@mariner4life truly remarkable

look, let the Cantabs have their little fluff piece.

the only "remarkable" thing to come from these stats is

Richie's record will stand for all time

Test matches used to be considerably more rare

Stag

@mariner4life test matches were certainly more rare, but that doesn’t have an effect on the % of wins.

ARHS

Would have thought Taine Randell, Anton Oliver and Fred Allen had difficult patches as captain. Are their stats there? Wouldn't have thought Cane would be much below 70%. He had a draw too.

Kiwiwomble

@ARHS anton is there, 80%

reddog

@Kiwiwomble he played 50 tests - captained nearly half of them. Lost his squad place when dropped as captain for Tana. Came back and captained a couple more at the start of Richie's reign. He was a pretty successful captain until the '03 semi as he won back the Bledisloe to start our current 20-year hold on that after we couldn't get it back after losing it in 1998!

Crucial

Rueben Thorne was captain? I can’t recall seeing him.

Old Samurai Jack

@Crucial Last minute lineout in Bledisloe. Called himself, took it, and the rest is history!
Grand leadership right there!!!!

#I know you're taking the piss but I really wanted to reshare that beautiful scene.

Dan54

Shows why you can sometimes read too much into stats, I mean loved Buck as captain and player, but he was captaining ABs when the rest of world was so far behind, and so poor in may cases it was stupid. I always thought even the first WC was such a foregone conclusion, I struggle to look bac on it as very good tournament. As in instance I will remember going to a local park in Levin to watch Wales have a trainig run (Wales were beaten semi-finalists) , the locals were asked to supply a few front rowers etc for opposition, there were 2 local senior first players propping (not sure but one may of been a rep player for Horowhenua), the hooker was from my club's 2nd team, and Derek Quinnell (I think forward coach for Wales) actually first asked our players to ease up a bit as Welsh pack was getting done. As I say they were deserved semi finalists, and rest of team were no better than their forwards, it was embarassing to see quality of teams from team from particularly Britain , but rest of world seemed so far behind us in skills! Test rugby became very boring for a few years! I think at times we have had outstanding captains etc, just that era you couldn't tell, the likes of Richie etc were great, and I thought his whole attitude to game and training was exceptional, and one of reasons he was best player I have seen.

Nepia

Since the OP seems like a thinly veiled Cane takedown and Whitelock (and Suitcase) fluff then we really need to a do a deeper analysis.

e.g.:

What's Whitelock's Foster only stats?

And how many of the Cane losses included Whitelock in the team as a senior player?

Bovidae

@Nepia Two of the most one-sided losses in recent years (Ireland and France in 2021) were with Whitelock as captain.

antipodean

Are these stats accounting for the relative opposition?

booboo

@ARHS said in All Black captains winning %:

Would have thought Taine Randell, Anton Oliver and Fred Allen had difficult patches as captain. Are their stats there? Wouldn't have thought Cane would be much below 70%. He had a draw too.

Taine endured 1998

ARHS

@booboo said in All Black captains winning %:

@ARHS said in All Black captains winning %:

Would have thought Taine Randell, Anton Oliver and Fred Allen had difficult patches as captain. Are their stats there? Wouldn't have thought Cane would be much below 70%. He had a draw too.

Taine endured 1998

Yep. None of the captains would have excelled during the period he had if appointed at his age.

canefan

@booboo said in All Black captains winning %:

@ARHS said in All Black captains winning %:

Would have thought Taine Randell, Anton Oliver and Fred Allen had difficult patches as captain. Are their stats there? Wouldn't have thought Cane would be much below 70%. He had a draw too.

Taine endured 1998

As did we.....

Mr Fish

On the current guys:

Sam Whitelock has played 18 games as captain and won 14 of them (78%) - not sure where 83% comes from?
He has played 14 games as captain against T1 sides and won 10 of them (71%).

Sam Cane has played 19 games as captain and won 12 of them (63%).
He has played 17 games as captain against T1 sides and won 10 of them (59%).

But under Foster, Whitelock has played nine games as captain against T1 sides and won six of them (67%).
Under Foster, Cane has played 15 games as captain against T1 sides and won eight of them (53%).

The Silver Fern

All Black captains winning %