It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.
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I wonder if he's going to the World Cup as an observer? Would be vital as a learning experience wouldn't it? Or just disruptive?
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4 years later than it should have been but yeah! Finally a coach selected on his record and not his connections. I expect some promotion of youth as the ABs need a rebuild.
As an aside I hope this lets foster concentrate on the job at hand. NZ are rank outsiders for the first time ever which might work in our favour.
@Billy-Tell said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
4 years later than it should have been but yeah! Finally a coach selected on his record and not his connections. I expect some promotion of youth as the ABs need a rebuild.
As an aside I hope this lets foster concentrate on the job at hand. NZ are rank outsiders for the first time ever which might work in our favour.
Except for 1995
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Damn, already 10 pages before I got a chance to contribute.
Glad they went with Razor (especially over Joseph). But realistically it was a foregone conclusion despite all the "in-the-know" contributors to the other thread who said otherwise.
@Nepia said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Damn, already 10 pages before I got a chance to contribute.
Glad they went with Razor (especially over Joseph). But realistically it was a foregone conclusion despite all the "in-the-know" contributors to the other thread who said otherwise.
Yeah - I looked at the Herald poll that had Razor at 65% and Jamie at 28% and thought it would be a big call (and a potential PR disaster) not to appoint Razor.
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@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
We’re going over old ground now. Fosters best/only chance is based on completion of the job he was employed to do. That option was taken away.
Thing is - Fozzie's not employed just to win the RWC.
He should have to stand on his record at the point NZR decide to recruit - not be given the chance to pull a rabbit out of a hat at the end (a chance no other potential candidate gets).
If he'd simply won more games he would have had a chance in this process. If he was sitting there with Sir Grahams record in early-2007 he'd likely have been a shoe-in.
I think it's a good thing that the future has been clarified. And on the other side of the coin, Fozzie gets his shot at winning a RWC and I'm fully behind him. Give him what he needs to win. If he's got assistants who are going to bail (as one article I saw today suggested) then maybe they're not the guys we need anyway. It should be a privilege to be on the AB coaching staff.
For what it's worth, I think (and hope) we'll get Ryan, Leon and Holland as Razor's lead assistants. I wouldn't mind seeing Smithy or Hansen in a mentoring role. I'm not convinced we need other old guys in the core team - maybe a few losses will change my tune.
I think that's the most interesting part about Razor for me. He's most certainly employed at Super level to win the tournament, and losses to the likes of Drua are pretty quickly swept aside so long as his team is there at the business end and get it done. Test level, as you point out, is a very different kettle of fish. If Fozzie gets the job done at the RWC, does that mean previous losses, e.g. to Argentina, get swept aside because he got it done when it mattered? The answer is absolutely not, the ABs have a proud legacy and losses like that cannot be wiped from the slate the same way they can be at the lower levels. I'm interested to see how Razor responds to an environment where you just have to win every single game, and if you don't the braying for blood from the public gets louder and louder. I think NZR have taken a punt here, which I'm not opposed to at all as it's clear the ABs need a shake up, but 2024 is going to be very interesting.
@No-Quarter said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
We’re going over old ground now. Fosters best/only chance is based on completion of the job he was employed to do. That option was taken away.
Thing is - Fozzie's not employed just to win the RWC.
He should have to stand on his record at the point NZR decide to recruit - not be given the chance to pull a rabbit out of a hat at the end (a chance no other potential candidate gets).
If he'd simply won more games he would have had a chance in this process. If he was sitting there with Sir Grahams record in early-2007 he'd likely have been a shoe-in.
I think it's a good thing that the future has been clarified. And on the other side of the coin, Fozzie gets his shot at winning a RWC and I'm fully behind him. Give him what he needs to win. If he's got assistants who are going to bail (as one article I saw today suggested) then maybe they're not the guys we need anyway. It should be a privilege to be on the AB coaching staff.
For what it's worth, I think (and hope) we'll get Ryan, Leon and Holland as Razor's lead assistants. I wouldn't mind seeing Smithy or Hansen in a mentoring role. I'm not convinced we need other old guys in the core team - maybe a few losses will change my tune.
I think that's the most interesting part about Razor for me. He's most certainly employed at Super level to win the tournament, and losses to the likes of Drua are pretty quickly swept aside so long as his team is there at the business end and get it done. Test level, as you point out, is a very different kettle of fish. If Fozzie gets the job done at the RWC, does that mean previous losses, e.g. to Argentina, get swept aside because he got it done when it mattered? The answer is absolutely not, the ABs have a proud legacy and losses like that cannot be wiped from the slate the same way they can be at the lower levels. I'm interested to see how Razor responds to an environment where you just have to win every single game, and if you don't the braying for blood from the public gets louder and louder. I think NZR have taken a punt here, which I'm not opposed to at all as it's clear the ABs need a shake up, but 2024 is going to be very interesting.
Yeah - but I think anyone taking on the AB coaching reins would understand that quite well.
And I think the same would have applied to Jamie Joseph - we remember him beating the Jaapies and making the RWC play-offs - but his losses with Japan get swept away.
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NZR ignored the chap with the outstanding record for a long period of time.
They didn't dig a hole they dug a canyon -
@mariner4life said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Wracking my brain trying to think of another professional sports coach who has the job for a full season knowing he's not wanted?
Very strange fucking time
I actually don't know how I feel about it to be honest.
I want to believe everyone is a stone cold professional and just gets on with the job. But that's fantasy.
If Foster isn't their guy he shouldn't be there now.It's all ridiculous really.
That's my point. I'm not grizzling on behalf of Foster, I'm stating the obvious. All those posts claiming that players will want to perform are correct. Step away from the extremes/simplistic views for a moment and you'll note that there is a little seed put in their heads that the guy telling them that they can win if they do what he says doesn't really have the full support of the bosses who are more than happy to sit and grin alongside their new hire.
That little seed could mean that the team aren't fully on song.
Surely there were better ways to do this. The interview/selection process appears to have been a done deal (and don't we just hate those?) so why not keep it under wraps?
More Mark Robinson mess IMO.
I do agree that a change of coach is needed but also think that if you aren't going to change the incumbent then full support means full support not praising how you think someone else will do a better job.@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@mariner4life said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Wracking my brain trying to think of another professional sports coach who has the job for a full season knowing he's not wanted?
Very strange fucking time
I actually don't know how I feel about it to be honest.
I want to believe everyone is a stone cold professional and just gets on with the job. But that's fantasy.
If Foster isn't their guy he shouldn't be there now.It's all ridiculous really.
That's my point. I'm not grizzling on behalf of Foster, I'm stating the obvious. All those posts claiming that players will want to perform are correct. Step away from the extremes/simplistic views for a moment and you'll note that there is a little seed put in their heads that the guy telling them that they can win if they do what he says doesn't really have the full support of the bosses who are more than happy to sit and grin alongside their new hire.
That little seed could mean that the team aren't fully on song.
Surely there were better ways to do this. The interview/selection process appears to have been a done deal (and don't we just hate those?) so why not keep it under wraps?
More Mark Robinson mess IMO.
I do agree that a change of coach is needed but also think that if you aren't going to change the incumbent then full support means full support not praising how you think someone else will do a better job.On the other hand, everyone knew Fozzie was dead in the water unless he won the RWC and maybe even then.
The Fern had nearly 6,000 posts on the Fozzie Robertson thread, so imagine what the conversations were around the pro rugby dressing rooms and "who had heard what".
If you've ever gone through a big institutional restructuring you'll know how productivity falls away around the water cooler - until there is certainty.
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@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@mariner4life said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Wracking my brain trying to think of another professional sports coach who has the job for a full season knowing he's not wanted?
Very strange fucking time
I actually don't know how I feel about it to be honest.
I want to believe everyone is a stone cold professional and just gets on with the job. But that's fantasy.
If Foster isn't their guy he shouldn't be there now.It's all ridiculous really.
That's my point. I'm not grizzling on behalf of Foster, I'm stating the obvious. All those posts claiming that players will want to perform are correct. Step away from the extremes/simplistic views for a moment and you'll note that there is a little seed put in their heads that the guy telling them that they can win if they do what he says doesn't really have the full support of the bosses who are more than happy to sit and grin alongside their new hire.
That little seed could mean that the team aren't fully on song.
Surely there were better ways to do this. The interview/selection process appears to have been a done deal (and don't we just hate those?) so why not keep it under wraps?
More Mark Robinson mess IMO.
I do agree that a change of coach is needed but also think that if you aren't going to change the incumbent then full support means full support not praising how you think someone else will do a better job.On the other hand, everyone knew Fozzie was dead in the water unless he won the RWC and maybe even then.
The Fern had nearly 6,000 posts on the Fozzie Robertson thread, so imagine what the conversations were around the pro rugby dressing rooms and "who had heard what".
If you've ever gone through a big institutional restructuring you'll know how productivity falls away around the water cooler - until there is certainty.
@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Crucial said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@mariner4life said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Wracking my brain trying to think of another professional sports coach who has the job for a full season knowing he's not wanted?
Very strange fucking time
I actually don't know how I feel about it to be honest.
I want to believe everyone is a stone cold professional and just gets on with the job. But that's fantasy.
If Foster isn't their guy he shouldn't be there now.It's all ridiculous really.
That's my point. I'm not grizzling on behalf of Foster, I'm stating the obvious. All those posts claiming that players will want to perform are correct. Step away from the extremes/simplistic views for a moment and you'll note that there is a little seed put in their heads that the guy telling them that they can win if they do what he says doesn't really have the full support of the bosses who are more than happy to sit and grin alongside their new hire.
That little seed could mean that the team aren't fully on song.
Surely there were better ways to do this. The interview/selection process appears to have been a done deal (and don't we just hate those?) so why not keep it under wraps?
More Mark Robinson mess IMO.
I do agree that a change of coach is needed but also think that if you aren't going to change the incumbent then full support means full support not praising how you think someone else will do a better job.On the other hand, everyone knew Fozzie was dead in the water unless he won the RWC and maybe even then.
The Fern had nearly 6,000 posts on the Fozzie Robertson thread, so imagine what the conversations were around the pro rugby dressing rooms and "who had heard what".
If you've ever gone through a big institutional restructuring you'll know how productivity falls away around the water cooler - until there is certainty.
At least now there is hope the players and coaches can compartmentalise 2024 and concentrate on 2023
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@Billy-Tell said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
4 years later than it should have been but yeah! Finally a coach selected on his record and not his connections. I expect some promotion of youth as the ABs need a rebuild.
As an aside I hope this lets foster concentrate on the job at hand. NZ are rank outsiders for the first time ever which might work in our favour.
Except for 1995
@booboo not with the bookies and the punting. ABs were favourites.
In terms of rugby commentators/ex players, the Wallabies were favourites and many predicted us to win a semi final but lose to either the Wallabies or the home side.
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@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
officially, for the general public, yeah, series win, bledisloe, eden park etc, basically stop the rot
but as someone slightly more interested i really want to see a team that controls the game more, can speed up and slow down the pace to keep teams guessing, i REALLY want to see a team that can be patient and not afraid to have the ball for multiple phases (not kicking away after 2-3)...so basically how we win, more team wins and less moments of brilliance plastering over the cracks
I do see where @Crucial is coming from, i also think its a bit weird, this is almost the build up to the world cup so i think the "normal" or more common approach would for fozzie to have just said he was stepping down after the RWC...and then announce after, we may all have known etc...but this is a little unusual....BUT....i also dont think they had much choice, through NZR's own doing they had undermined fozzie through contract extensions and reviews and not just saying a new coach wont be announce until after the RWC...
...so it is what it is...this season might get rough, yes 100% the players will want to win and so will fozzie, but it is also their job, not purely a passion, we've seen it with players admitting they didn't know about some of the records that have been broken recently...and so no, i wont be surprised if we see people that seem to play slightly more razor like....subconsciously wanting to get paid next year
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@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
officially, for the general public, yeah, series win, bledisloe, eden park etc, basically stop the rot
but as someone slightly more interested i really want to see a team that controls the game more, can speed up and slow down the pace to keep teams guessing, i REALLY want to see a team that can be patient and not afraid to have the ball for multiple phases (not kicking away after 2-3)...so basically how we win, more team wins and less moments of brilliance plastering over the cracks
I do see where @Crucial is coming from, i also think its a bit weird, this is almost the build up to the world cup so i think the "normal" or more common approach would for fozzie to have just said he was stepping down after the RWC...and then announce after, we may all have known etc...but this is a little unusual....BUT....i also dont think they had much choice, through NZR's own doing they had undermined fozzie through contract extensions and reviews and not just saying a new coach wont be announce until after the RWC...
...so it is what it is...this season might get rough, yes 100% the players will want to win and so will fozzie, but it is also their job, not purely a passion, we've seen it with players admitting they didn't know about some of the records that have been broken recently...and so no, i wont be surprised if we see people that seem to play slightly more razor like....subconsciously wanting to get paid next year
@Kiwiwomble said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@antipodean said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Victor-Meldrew For mine the Bledisloe needs to be in the display cabinet. A series win against England, with the Eden Park record intact.
I don't know what the EOYT holds, so will hold opinion there.
officially, for the general public, yeah, series win, bledisloe, eden park etc, basically stop the rot
but as someone slightly more interested i really want to see a team that controls the game more, can speed up and slow down the pace to keep teams guessing, i REALLY want to see a team that can be patient and not afraid to have the ball for multiple phases (not kicking away after 2-3)...so basically how we win, more team wins and less moments of brilliance plastering over the cracks
I do see where @Crucial is coming from, i also think its a bit weird, this is almost the build up to the world cup so i think the "normal" or more common approach would for fozzie to have just said he was stepping down after the RWC...and then announce after, we may all have known etc...but this is a little unusual....BUT....i also dont think they had much choice, through NZR's own doing they had undermined fozzie through contract extensions and reviews and not just saying a new coach wont be announce until after the RWC...
...so it is what it is...this season might get rough, yes 100% the players will want to win and so will fozzie, but it is also their job, not purely a passion, we've seen it with players admitting they didn't know about some of the records that have been broken recently...and so no, i wont be surprised if we see people that seem to play slightly more razor like....subconsciously wanting to get paid next year
Yup I'm looking for us to play a more direct style, a more controlling style. Instant success is all well and good, but there will be new faces after RWC23 and it will take some time. No headless chook play posing as a game plan will be a start
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Someone might have already posted this - interesting to see Conrad on the panel.
The panel of NZ Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, board members Dame Farah Palmer and Bailey Mackey, NZR head of high performance Mike Anthony, former All Black Conrad Smith and Eddie Kohlhase, of High Performance Sport NZ and a former Black Sox softball coach.
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Not asking for much just wanna support the smartest side on the pitch
@BerniesCorner said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Not asking for much just wanna support the smartest side on the pitch
don't support the Blues!
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Someone might have already posted this - interesting to see Conrad on the panel.
The panel of NZ Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, board members Dame Farah Palmer and Bailey Mackey, NZR head of high performance Mike Anthony, former All Black Conrad Smith and Eddie Kohlhase, of High Performance Sport NZ and a former Black Sox softball coach.
@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Someone might have already posted this - interesting to see Conrad on the panel.
The panel of NZ Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, board members Dame Farah Palmer and Bailey Mackey, NZR head of high performance Mike Anthony, former All Black Conrad Smith and Eddie Kohlhase, of High Performance Sport NZ and a former Black Sox softball coach.
yeah, wonder why? isn't he a lawyer? so maybe the combo of lawyer/player? but you might have thought former captains?
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@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Someone might have already posted this - interesting to see Conrad on the panel.
The panel of NZ Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, board members Dame Farah Palmer and Bailey Mackey, NZR head of high performance Mike Anthony, former All Black Conrad Smith and Eddie Kohlhase, of High Performance Sport NZ and a former Black Sox softball coach.
yeah, wonder why? isn't he a lawyer? so maybe the combo of lawyer/player? but you might have thought former captains?
@Kiwiwomble said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Someone might have already posted this - interesting to see Conrad on the panel.
The panel of NZ Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, board members Dame Farah Palmer and Bailey Mackey, NZR head of high performance Mike Anthony, former All Black Conrad Smith and Eddie Kohlhase, of High Performance Sport NZ and a former Black Sox softball coach.
yeah, wonder why? isn't he a lawyer? so maybe the combo of lawyer/player? but you might have thought former captains?
Might be indicative that neither Hammer nor any other recent Canes coaches were interviewing.
KRead has been in the media saying appoint Razor and he and McCaw are Crusaders through and through. I don't think they'd want that. Rueben Thorne as well.
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@Kiwiwomble said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@Chris-B said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Someone might have already posted this - interesting to see Conrad on the panel.
The panel of NZ Rugby CEO Mark Robinson, board members Dame Farah Palmer and Bailey Mackey, NZR head of high performance Mike Anthony, former All Black Conrad Smith and Eddie Kohlhase, of High Performance Sport NZ and a former Black Sox softball coach.
yeah, wonder why? isn't he a lawyer? so maybe the combo of lawyer/player? but you might have thought former captains?
Might be indicative that neither Hammer nor any other recent Canes coaches were interviewing.
KRead has been in the media saying appoint Razor and he and McCaw are Crusaders through and through. I don't think they'd want that. Rueben Thorne as well.
@Chris-B good points
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Wracking my brain trying to think of another professional sports coach who has the job for a full season knowing he's not wanted?
Very strange fucking time
I actually don't know how I feel about it to be honest.
I want to believe everyone is a stone cold professional and just gets on with the job. But that's fantasy.
If Foster isn't their guy he shouldn't be there now.It's all ridiculous really.
@mariner4life said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Wracking my brain trying to think of another professional sports coach who has the job for a full season knowing he's not wanted?
Very strange fucking time
I actually don't know how I feel about it to be honest.
I want to believe everyone is a stone cold professional and just gets on with the job. But that's fantasy.
If Foster isn't their guy he shouldn't be there now.It's all ridiculous really.
I think Malthouse to Buckley at Collingwood was similar.
It was a bit ugly from memory. -
@mariner4life said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Wracking my brain trying to think of another professional sports coach who has the job for a full season knowing he's not wanted?
Very strange fucking time
I actually don't know how I feel about it to be honest.
I want to believe everyone is a stone cold professional and just gets on with the job. But that's fantasy.
If Foster isn't their guy he shouldn't be there now.It's all ridiculous really.
I think Malthouse to Buckley at Collingwood was similar.
It was a bit ugly from memory.@kiwiinmelb said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
@mariner4life said in It’s Razor. Robertson New All Blacks coach.:
Wracking my brain trying to think of another professional sports coach who has the job for a full season knowing he's not wanted?
Very strange fucking time
I actually don't know how I feel about it to be honest.
I want to believe everyone is a stone cold professional and just gets on with the job. But that's fantasy.
If Foster isn't their guy he shouldn't be there now.It's all ridiculous really.
I think Malthouse to Buckley at Collingwood was similar.
It was a bit ugly from memory.oh yeah that's a good one. was very ugly.
Imagine if the NZRU stuck Razor in as an assistant now to get him acclimatised?
