All Blacks 2023
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@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
i find my self in the camp of its too late for players to prove themselves at international level those that already have (savea, JB at 12, tight five etc) great...
JB's played 3 (?) games at 12 so I'm not too sure he's proved himself at Test level. That said, he's probably the least-worst option in that position and just being solid and injury-free is a huge improvement on the midfield debacle of the last few years. Midfield is still the weakest area for me.
Agree on picking the best SR players but also take into account whether they can handle the step up. Don't need another Bridge to nowhere.
Midfield is definitely a cause for concern, especially when you factor in the amount of time Fickou, Ringrose, Aki, Farrell et al have had in the saddle.
I think having 2 big lumps in there is the least worst option to borrow your phrase.
Give me Jordie and Rieko over Havili and ALB any day of the week.
I hope you're right, but I have nightmares about JB being exposed as inexperienced by the likes of Ringrose etc. Just make sure JB gets as much game time as possible and pray he doesn't get injured.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
i find my self in the camp of its too late for players to prove themselves at international level those that already have (savea, JB at 12, tight five etc) great...
JB's played 3 (?) games at 12 so I'm not too sure he's proved himself at Test level. That said, he's probably the least-worst option in that position and just being solid and injury-free is a huge improvement on the midfield debacle of the last few years. Midfield is still the weakest area for me.
Agree on picking the best SR players but also take into account whether they can handle the step up. Don't need another Bridge to nowhere.
Midfield is definitely a cause for concern, especially when you factor in the amount of time Fickou, Ringrose, Aki, Farrell et al have had in the saddle.
I think having 2 big lumps in there is the least worst option to borrow your phrase.
Give me Jordie and Rieko over Havili and ALB any day of the week.
I hope you're right, but I have nightmares about JB being exposed as inexperienced by the likes of Ringrose etc. Just make sure JB gets as much game time as possible and pray he doesn't get injured.
I know JB hasn't had as much time as we'd like at 12 at test level, but he's had plenty of experience in the position during his career. He was also a HELL of a lot better than "solid" - I'd say the exact opposite, he was absolutely dominant in his performances there, easily the most influential player on the park and the best we've seen from an AB 12 since the days of Nonu. I'm far less concerned about our midfield then I am our 10.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
i find my self in the camp of its too late for players to prove themselves at international level those that already have (savea, JB at 12, tight five etc) great...
JB's played 3 (?) games at 12 so I'm not too sure he's proved himself at Test level. That said, he's probably the least-worst option in that position and just being solid and injury-free is a huge improvement on the midfield debacle of the last few years. Midfield is still the weakest area for me.
Agree on picking the best SR players but also take into account whether they can handle the step up. Don't need another Bridge to nowhere.
Midfield is definitely a cause for concern, especially when you factor in the amount of time Fickou, Ringrose, Aki, Farrell et al have had in the saddle.
I think having 2 big lumps in there is the least worst option to borrow your phrase.
Give me Jordie and Rieko over Havili and ALB any day of the week.
I hope you're right, but I have nightmares about JB being exposed as inexperienced by the likes of Ringrose etc. Just make sure JB gets as much game time as possible and pray he doesn't get injured.
I know JB hasn't had as much time as we'd like at 12 at test level, but he's had plenty of experience in the position during his career. He was also a HELL of a lot better than "solid" - I'd say the exact opposite, he was absolutely dominant in his performances there, easily the most influential player on the park and the best we've seen from an AB 12 since the days of Nonu. I'm far less concerned about our midfield then I am our 10.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
i find my self in the camp of its too late for players to prove themselves at international level those that already have (savea, JB at 12, tight five etc) great...
JB's played 3 (?) games at 12 so I'm not too sure he's proved himself at Test level. That said, he's probably the least-worst option in that position and just being solid and injury-free is a huge improvement on the midfield debacle of the last few years. Midfield is still the weakest area for me.
Agree on picking the best SR players but also take into account whether they can handle the step up. Don't need another Bridge to nowhere.
Midfield is definitely a cause for concern, especially when you factor in the amount of time Fickou, Ringrose, Aki, Farrell et al have had in the saddle.
I think having 2 big lumps in there is the least worst option to borrow your phrase.
Give me Jordie and Rieko over Havili and ALB any day of the week.
I hope you're right, but I have nightmares about JB being exposed as inexperienced by the likes of Ringrose etc. Just make sure JB gets as much game time as possible and pray he doesn't get injured.
I know JB hasn't had as much time as we'd like at 12 at test level, but he's had plenty of experience in the position during his career. He was also a HELL of a lot better than "solid" - I'd say the exact opposite, he was absolutely dominant in his performances there, easily the most influential player on the park and the best we've seen from an AB 12 since the days of Nonu. I'm far less concerned about our midfield then I am our 10.
Was about to post the same. JB and RI are a very good combination, hopefully we don't have to worry about who the backups are.
We pretty much have a tiny chance of winning the WC with RM as the ten. He's a dominant Super Rugby player and a non-entity at Test level against anyone but the minnows.
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And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
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And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
Hook this post into my veins .
Let’s roll the fakkin dice.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
Hook this post into my veins .
Let’s roll the fakkin dice.
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And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
ive come around to DMac as he seems to be running hot on form at the moment....but, has his game changed or something, i remember him being a huge proponent of the run across field and shovel a pass when he couldn't find a gap
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
ive come around to DMac as he seems to be running hot on form at the moment....but, has his game changed or something, i remember him being a huge proponent of the run across field and shovel a pass when he couldn't find a gap
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
ive come around to DMac as he seems to be running hot on form at the moment....but, has his came changed or something, i remember him being a huge proponent of the run across field and shovel a pass when he couldn't find a gap
I'll jump in with my Dead Horse. That was a long time ago. He did/does still do a sideways thing if given the ball in a shit situation and needs to buy time for some supporting cleaners to get behind him. He knows that his size can mean he gets caught in a dominant tackle so looks for some insurance. He will take an opportunity if it presents itself but rarely gets caught and turned over these days.
The big difference at the moment is that he finds ways for the team to win. In last weeks game RM backed off rather than stood up and that is a concern. When the heat came on he didn't respond by taking control and putting the Saders into good positions.
In the sense of a good test 10, you need the guy that will take control irrespective of what has happened earlier in the game. For all the talk (old perceptions) that DMac is a scatterbrain it is the opposite now. He thinks all the time but is also able to act on instinct and make good decisions for the team. Mistakes are put behind him very quickly. BB and RM seem to be dwelling on errors at the moment.
One of the impressive things about DMac's critical try assist for SS was how he stopped running to create a draw and pass. He still had room to try and step but he weighed the options and made a lower risk situation happen.
If we are looking at putting game breakers in the backline we need a 10 that will create those opportunities. DMac hitting RI with a pass into a gap. DMac attracting the eyes of defenders then sending Jordan (or whoever) through a hole.
I think there is more to see as well. Donk has said that they didn't even show any plays in that game and there are plenty trained. That could be interesting. Seeing Narawa or Stevenson taking a backdoor pop pass from a set piece for example. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
ive come around to DMac as he seems to be running hot on form at the moment....but, has his came changed or something, i remember him being a huge proponent of the run across field and shovel a pass when he couldn't find a gap
I'll jump in with my Dead Horse. That was a long time ago. He did/does still do a sideways thing if given the ball in a shit situation and needs to buy time for some supporting cleaners to get behind him. He knows that his size can mean he gets caught in a dominant tackle so looks for some insurance. He will take an opportunity if it presents itself but rarely gets caught and turned over these days.
The big difference at the moment is that he finds ways for the team to win. In last weeks game RM backed off rather than stood up and that is a concern. When the heat came on he didn't respond by taking control and putting the Saders into good positions.
In the sense of a good test 10, you need the guy that will take control irrespective of what has happened earlier in the game. For all the talk (old perceptions) that DMac is a scatterbrain it is the opposite now. He thinks all the time but is also able to act on instinct and make good decisions for the team. Mistakes are put behind him very quickly. BB and RM seem to be dwelling on errors at the moment.
One of the impressive things about DMac's critical try assist for SS was how he stopped running to create a draw and pass. He still had room to try and step but he weighed the options and made a lower risk situation happen.
If we are looking at putting game breakers in the backline we need a 10 that will create those opportunities. DMac hitting RI with a pass into a gap. DMac attracting the eyes of defenders then sending Jordan (or whoever) through a hole.
I think there is more to see as well. Donk has said that they didn't even show any plays in that game and there are plenty trained. That could be interesting. Seeing Narawa or Stevenson taking a backdoor pop pass from a set piece for example.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
And before the Cantab mafia come for me (cough, cough Stargazer), I'm leaning towards DMac, not BB.
He also makes mistakes, but is a better tackler, has a longer kicking game and runs straight which is even more important at the higher level. RM's main attacking strategy of running sideways (or even backwards) until he finds a mismatch is completely useless when there isn't a mismatch.
I like the idea of disrupting all the opposition plans on how to isolate RM by selecting DMac and either Sullivan or Stevenson at fullback. Be bold and go win the thing.
ive come around to DMac as he seems to be running hot on form at the moment....but, has his came changed or something, i remember him being a huge proponent of the run across field and shovel a pass when he couldn't find a gap
I'll jump in with my Dead Horse. That was a long time ago. He did/does still do a sideways thing if given the ball in a shit situation and needs to buy time for some supporting cleaners to get behind him. He knows that his size can mean he gets caught in a dominant tackle so looks for some insurance. He will take an opportunity if it presents itself but rarely gets caught and turned over these days.
The big difference at the moment is that he finds ways for the team to win. In last weeks game RM backed off rather than stood up and that is a concern. When the heat came on he didn't respond by taking control and putting the Saders into good positions.
In the sense of a good test 10, you need the guy that will take control irrespective of what has happened earlier in the game. For all the talk (old perceptions) that DMac is a scatterbrain it is the opposite now. He thinks all the time but is also able to act on instinct and make good decisions for the team. Mistakes are put behind him very quickly. BB and RM seem to be dwelling on errors at the moment.
One of the impressive things about DMac's critical try assist for SS was how he stopped running to create a draw and pass. He still had room to try and step but he weighed the options and made a lower risk situation happen.
If we are looking at putting game breakers in the backline we need a 10 that will create those opportunities. DMac hitting RI with a pass into a gap. DMac attracting the eyes of defenders then sending Jordan (or whoever) through a hole.
I think there is more to see as well. Donk has said that they didn't even show any plays in that game and there are plenty trained. That could be interesting. Seeing Narawa or Stevenson taking a backdoor pop pass from a set piece for example.I have a horn on me a cat wouldnt scratch.
We’re gonna win the World Cup !
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Its good for Damian personally that he has developed as a 10 , always felt he was a bit small( short ) for FB even if the skills were there ,
At 10 as long as he is brave enough to defend his channel which he is , the lack of height doesnt matter
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The biggest problem with BB and RM in the Foster era is their territorial kicking and game management in the latter stages of a tight game. There have been numerous brainfarts at crucial times in tight games and the inability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and play in the right parts of the field. Contrast that with the "McCaw golden years" of winning the tight ones. The semi-final against SA in 2015 was a classic example of that. SA couldn't get out of their own half for the last quarter of the game. The last Crusaders vs Chiefs game highlighted the RM problem. An absolute brainfart from RM handed the game to the Chiefs.
DMac is showing a big improvement in the areas mentioned but BB (who is a shadow of the player he once was) and RM keep doing the same old things. -
The biggest problem with BB and RM in the Foster era is their territorial kicking and game management in the latter stages of a tight game. There have been numerous brainfarts at crucial times in tight games and the inability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and play in the right parts of the field. Contrast that with the "McCaw golden years" of winning the tight ones. The semi-final against SA in 2015 was a classic example of that. SA couldn't get out of their own half for the last quarter of the game. The last Crusaders vs Chiefs game highlighted the RM problem. An absolute brainfart from RM handed the game to the Chiefs.
DMac is showing a big improvement in the areas mentioned but BB (who is a shadow of the player he once was) and RM keep doing the same old things.@Old-Samurai-Jack The flaws in the kicking games of BB and RM that you mention have always been evident in SR, but you can often get away with those inaccuracies in that level. Not so in tests.
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The biggest problem with BB and RM in the Foster era is their territorial kicking and game management in the latter stages of a tight game. There have been numerous brainfarts at crucial times in tight games and the inability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and play in the right parts of the field. Contrast that with the "McCaw golden years" of winning the tight ones. The semi-final against SA in 2015 was a classic example of that. SA couldn't get out of their own half for the last quarter of the game. The last Crusaders vs Chiefs game highlighted the RM problem. An absolute brainfart from RM handed the game to the Chiefs.
DMac is showing a big improvement in the areas mentioned but BB (who is a shadow of the player he once was) and RM keep doing the same old things.@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
The biggest problem with BB and RM in the Foster era is their territorial kicking and game management in the latter stages of a tight game. There have been numerous brainfarts at crucial times in tight games and the inability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and play in the right parts of the field. Contrast that with the "McCaw golden years" of winning the tight ones. The semi-final against SA in 2015 was a classic example of that. SA couldn't get out of their own half for the last quarter of the game. The last Crusaders vs Chiefs game highlighted the RM problem. An absolute brainfart from RM handed the game to the Chiefs.
DMac is showing a big improvement in the areas mentioned but BB (who is a shadow of the player he once was) and RM keep doing the same old things.Which was the RM brainfart you mention? I thought Havili's bad defence read was the opening for the Chiefs
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
The biggest problem with BB and RM in the Foster era is their territorial kicking and game management in the latter stages of a tight game. There have been numerous brainfarts at crucial times in tight games and the inability to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and play in the right parts of the field. Contrast that with the "McCaw golden years" of winning the tight ones. The semi-final against SA in 2015 was a classic example of that. SA couldn't get out of their own half for the last quarter of the game. The last Crusaders vs Chiefs game highlighted the RM problem. An absolute brainfart from RM handed the game to the Chiefs.
DMac is showing a big improvement in the areas mentioned but BB (who is a shadow of the player he once was) and RM keep doing the same old things.Which was the RM brainfart you mention? I thought Havili's bad defence read was the opening for the Chiefs
@Crucial That was the final part. RM had the opportunity to clear, instead went for the cross kick/defensive bomb that BB gets crucified for on here, they lost possesion not far from the 22 and Dmac was able to capitlise on DH's terrible read on defence.
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@Crucial That was the final part. RM had the opportunity to clear, instead went for the cross kick/defensive bomb that BB gets crucified for on here, they lost possesion not far from the 22 and Dmac was able to capitlise on DH's terrible read on defence.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial That was the final part. RM had the opportunity to clear, instead went for the cross kick/defensive bomb that BB gets crucified for on here, they lost possesion not far from the 22 and Dmac was able to capitlise on DH's terrible read on defence.
Just went and watched to remind myself. God yes that was awful!
Tight game, you've only just retaken the lead, in your 22 and need to get the ball down field.
He did have a numbers advantage out there initially but the height of the bomb allowed a whole load of Chiefs to get over there and disrupt any chance of a clean take. Dumb decision.
About the only leeway I'll give him was that he probably thought he was setting for a clearance on the full but as the pass came to him Gardner called 'taken back in' (correctly). His forwards had fucked up the exit. -
@Crucial That was the final part. RM had the opportunity to clear, instead went for the cross kick/defensive bomb that BB gets crucified for on here, they lost possesion not far from the 22 and Dmac was able to capitlise on DH's terrible read on defence.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial That was the final part. RM had the opportunity to clear, instead went for the cross kick/defensive bomb that BB gets crucified for on here, they lost possesion not far from the 22 and Dmac was able to capitlise on DH's terrible read on defence.
Just went and watched to remind myself. God yes that was awful!
Tight game, you've only just retaken the lead, in your 22 and need to get the ball down field.
He did have a numbers advantage out there initially but the height of the bomb allowed a whole load of Chiefs to get over there and disrupt any chance of a clean take. Dumb decision.
About the only leeway I'll give him was that he probably thought he was setting for a clearance on the full but as the pass came to him Gardner called 'taken back in' (correctly). His forwards had fucked up the exit.@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial That was the final part. RM had the opportunity to clear, instead went for the cross kick/defensive bomb that BB gets crucified for on here, they lost possesion not far from the 22 and Dmac was able to capitlise on DH's terrible read on defence.
Just went and watched to remind myself. God yes that was awful!
Tight game, you've only just retaken the lead, in your 22 and need to get the ball down field.
He did have a numbers advantage out there initially but the height of the bomb allowed a whole load of Chiefs to get over there and disrupt any chance of a clean take. Dumb decision.
About the only leeway I'll give him was that he probably thought he was setting for a clearance on the full but as the pass came to him Gardner called 'taken back in' (correctly). His forwards had fucked up the exit.I am giving RM no leeway at all for this. He needed to exit and get the ball into Chief's territory. Another aspect to this is he is kicking it back to the best counterattacking team in the competition in open play, with the Crusader's defense in bits and bobs all across the park, their flanks exposed... It was a really dire decision.
DH shouldn't have been put in that situation in defense. -
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks 2023:
@Crucial That was the final part. RM had the opportunity to clear, instead went for the cross kick/defensive bomb that BB gets crucified for on here, they lost possesion not far from the 22 and Dmac was able to capitlise on DH's terrible read on defence.
Just went and watched to remind myself. God yes that was awful!
Tight game, you've only just retaken the lead, in your 22 and need to get the ball down field.
He did have a numbers advantage out there initially but the height of the bomb allowed a whole load of Chiefs to get over there and disrupt any chance of a clean take. Dumb decision.
About the only leeway I'll give him was that he probably thought he was setting for a clearance on the full but as the pass came to him Gardner called 'taken back in' (correctly). His forwards had fucked up the exit.I am giving RM no leeway at all for this. He needed to exit and get the ball into Chief's territory. Another aspect to this is he is kicking it back to the best counterattacking team in the competition in open play, with the Crusader's defense in bits and bobs all across the park, their flanks exposed... It was a really dire decision.
DH shouldn't have been put in that situation in defense.@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks 2023:
DH shouldn't have been put in that situation in defense.
shocking, Dallin Watene-Zelezniak level decision making
But yes, the first and worst error was that shocking kick
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Can you imagine if RM and DH did that in an AB test? Fozzie would get vilified.
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Can you imagine if RM and DH did that in an AB test? Fozzie would get vilified.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2023:
Can you imagine if RM and DH did that in an AB test? Fozzie would get vilified.
That’s because he doesn’t know how to use the Saders players properly though. Nothing to do with them being shit.
A decent coach would have got rid of that rubbish -
I think it is more concerning many in nz rugby use this as a tactic, too often.
Even if executed better most often it is a low % play anyway, but the execution is often not there as well.
I
