Super Rugby 2023
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lol jesus christ rugby, why do you hate yourself? Just as Super Rugby showed signs of coming back to life, we get this shit again? Too many fucking egos in the board rooms of rugby codes in Australasia who just love hearing themselves talk.
On the structure, i was only thinking the other day that the Super level may have sorted itself, so we could look to build under it.
Why can't we follow the league model? (i know that's a dicey comment in a rugby dominated forum). Rugby League runs all three levels at the same time, and they flow through each other. Why can't rugby? Why can't club, NPC and Super all happen at the same time? And have players flow through?Look at league, and lets use here in Cairns as an example, a region of 150,000 people. We have an 11-club local league comp (currently having its bolstered by 3 recently top level rep-level players). Level 1
We also have the Northern Pride, playing in the Q-Cup. THat's level 2
And we are (supposedly) a feeder to the Cowboys playing in the NRL. Level 3And players move between levels. Guys not playing for the Pride go back and play Club. Guys not playing for the Cowboys come back and play for the Pride. If the Cowboys want to make change, guys from the Pride go up.
I take that structure and put it in to NZ rugby, to me it makes a lot of sense. Those only interested in the top level get what they get now. Those who want something linked to their home province gets that. Club stuff runs the same time. Players move between levels. It's actually really easy for guys like @Stargazer to follow HB players through the grades (Cairns product Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow from Cairns is playing Origin next week. He followed the process from the Pride's U18s side through to the Cowboys).
It's streamlined, easy to follow, and everything is played at once. Current NPC provinces get aligned to Super rugby sides to spread talent (doesn't have to be geographical, the Melbourne Storm feeders are in Qld). Probably cheaper to run too@mariner4life i guess the first issue with multiple comps at the same time is fans not always being able to watch all levels
right now we have club rugby on at the same time at super rugby....players and their families...you know actual rugby people...cant watch 5pm super games because club rugby doesnt finish till 530....we're currently making it impossible for actual rugby fans to watch the "premier" comp
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@Kirwan said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial Selling point is no worse that what you've proposed, except NZ provinces will be a stronger competition.
MP, Drua, Japanese, US clubs or players are weaker than most if not all NPC sides bolstered with Super Rugby players and ABs.
The first order of business is a strong and entertaining comp. Second is affordable, streamlined structure that supports player longevitiy and the international pathway.
We can't be all things to all people.
And perhaps there is revenue to be had outside the normal broadcasting model if it can't be sold as a traditional package everywhere, with options online or on Apple TV streaming.
The latter is looking at innovative broadcast options and have been having trouble convincing NFL and MLB to try new things. Let them experiment with Rugby, for a price.
Maybe my idea wasn’t explained well enough as what you are describing isn’t quite what I had in mind.
The extra franchises would be NZ based (unless Oz wanted to run one from there eg reverse Warriors situation)
The link to Us/Japan markets comes from recruitment from those countries to help fill rosters. Totally up to the franchise how they want to position themselves, but it may make some sense for marketing if you picked a few overseas stars and played some pre season stuff somewhere else.
I like the broadcast ideas, that would possibly fit in nicely@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
The link to Us/Japan markets comes from recruitment from those countries to help fill rosters. Totally up to the franchise how they want to position themselves, but it may make some sense for marketing if you picked a few overseas stars and played some pre season stuff somewhere else.
A comp wil a number of teams of a similar level to MP would not be high quality. US/Japan level players would be a level below MP IMO.
I like the broadcast ideas, that would possibly fit in nicely
I hope someone in NZR are looking into these sorts of options, if it's obvious to us I'm sure it's obvious to them. This is where Sky being intertwined with NZR is a negative.
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@mariner4life i guess the first issue with multiple comps at the same time is fans not always being able to watch all levels
right now we have club rugby on at the same time at super rugby....players and their families...you know actual rugby people...cant watch 5pm super games because club rugby doesnt finish till 530....we're currently making it impossible for actual rugby fans to watch the "premier" comp
@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life i guess the first issue with multiple comps at the same time is fans not always being able to watch all levels
right now we have club rugby on at the same time at super rugby....players and their families...you know actual rugby people...cant watch 5pm super games because club rugby doesnt finish till 530....we're currently making it impossible for actual rugby fans to watch the "premier" comp
that's really easy to change. Make club rugby Sunday for instance
And lets be real, the NPC crowds aren't huge now. It's not like 15,000 people are suddenly torn on where to show up.
And people in Tauranga and Napier and New Plymouth don't have anything to go to most of the year any way.
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@Machpants said in Super Rugby 2023:
But Ozzie says...
https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/05/25/super-power-struggle-why-ra-is-pushing-back-on-nzr-and-believe-they-want-to-blow-up-sanzaar/That's written by Doran, who knows nothing about rugby but can be relied upon to put his name to RA's press releases. The NZH article on the other hand is written by Scottish whinger Gregor Paul.
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lol jesus christ rugby, why do you hate yourself? Just as Super Rugby showed signs of coming back to life, we get this shit again? Too many fucking egos in the board rooms of rugby codes in Australasia who just love hearing themselves talk.
On the structure, i was only thinking the other day that the Super level may have sorted itself, so we could look to build under it.
Why can't we follow the league model? (i know that's a dicey comment in a rugby dominated forum). Rugby League runs all three levels at the same time, and they flow through each other. Why can't rugby? Why can't club, NPC and Super all happen at the same time? And have players flow through?Look at league, and lets use here in Cairns as an example, a region of 150,000 people. We have an 11-club local league comp (currently having its bolstered by 3 recently top level rep-level players). Level 1
We also have the Northern Pride, playing in the Q-Cup. THat's level 2
And we are (supposedly) a feeder to the Cowboys playing in the NRL. Level 3And players move between levels. Guys not playing for the Pride go back and play Club. Guys not playing for the Cowboys come back and play for the Pride. If the Cowboys want to make change, guys from the Pride go up.
I take that structure and put it in to NZ rugby, to me it makes a lot of sense. Those only interested in the top level get what they get now. Those who want something linked to their home province gets that. Club stuff runs the same time. Players move between levels. It's actually really easy for guys like @Stargazer to follow HB players through the grades (Cairns product Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow from Cairns is playing Origin next week. He followed the process from the Pride's U18s side through to the Cowboys).
It's streamlined, easy to follow, and everything is played at once. Current NPC provinces get aligned to Super rugby sides to spread talent (doesn't have to be geographical, the Melbourne Storm feeders are in Qld). Probably cheaper to run too@mariner4life said in Super Rugby 2023:
On the structure, i was only thinking the other day that the Super level may have sorted itself, so we could look to build under it.
Why can't we follow the league model? (i know that's a dicey comment in a rugby dominated forum). Rugby League runs all three levels at the same time, and they flow through each other. Why can't rugby? Why can't club, NPC and Super all happen at the same time? And have players flow through?That would mean that NPC is deprived of most of its Super Rugby players and local club rugby is deprived of most of its NPC players. That would kill local club rugby even more than all the departures to the MLR. Grassroots rugby in the smaller provinces would die. NPC would be seriously weakened.
It's a big 'no' from me.
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Some good points raised here. There's a real negative attitude in rugby towards Super Rugby that I think is overdone - especially in the media.
Crusaders Chief Executive Colin Mansbridge, who especially hasn’t been afraid to call out journalists he believes are more down on the competition than is warranted. “I think that’s the point [it’s not all bad]. It can always be better, the competition is never going to be perfect,” he said. “I think the problem is that everyone has this very binary mindset. It’s either stuffed or it’s got to be brilliant, and there’s no in-between.” -
The thing that will probably kill.NZ rugby is that so many stakeholders can't see anything that isn't exactly everything they have now, no matter how out of date or disjointed
Based on my very real example I can assure you that club league is as strong as ever.
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Some good points raised here. There's a real negative attitude in rugby towards Super Rugby that I think is overdone - especially in the media.
Crusaders Chief Executive Colin Mansbridge, who especially hasn’t been afraid to call out journalists he believes are more down on the competition than is warranted. “I think that’s the point [it’s not all bad]. It can always be better, the competition is never going to be perfect,” he said. “I think the problem is that everyone has this very binary mindset. It’s either stuffed or it’s got to be brilliant, and there’s no in-between.”@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
Some good points raised here. There's a real negative attitude in rugby towards Super Rugby that I think is overdone - especially in the media.
Crusaders Chief Executive Colin Mansbridge, who especially hasn’t been afraid to call out journalists he believes are more down on the competition than is warranted. “I think that’s the point [it’s not all bad]. It can always be better, the competition is never going to be perfect,” he said. “I think the problem is that everyone has this very binary mindset. It’s either stuffed or it’s got to be brilliant, and there’s no in-between.”Shit, I saw his tweets via a league forum, didn't realise he was CEO of the Crusaders.
@Kirwan said in Super Rugby 2023:
I think the loudest moaners in the press prefer League, so will never be happy
It's weird how much the NZ press loves league. That right wing alternative news thing with Plunket has a sports section that is almost entirely the Warriors.
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As much as I would hate it, the best thing for thr comp is the Brumbies winning tonight
The fact it's very much a 50/50 game should be enough, but a tangible result will be even better.
Stay the fucking course
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As much as I would hate it, the best thing for thr comp is the Brumbies winning tonight
The fact it's very much a 50/50 game should be enough, but a tangible result will be even better.
Stay the fucking course
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@Tim So tiresome. We can expect a response from Mclennan any moment that will have counter-claims.
Bunch of muppets on both sides that only hurts the competition.
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@mariner4life Brumbies loss last week is likely to cost them a home semi even if they win tonight
@KiwiMurph said in Super Rugby 2023:
@mariner4life Brumbies loss last week is likely to cost them a home semi even if they win tonight
It's not just the home final
They lost to an Aussie team one week, thrn best the top kiwi side the next week is a good signThe strongest NZ sides are still too good for most of the comp, but if they fuck around and rest players then they are in danger. A couple of years of continuity and it will get tighter I reckon.
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
The link to Us/Japan markets comes from recruitment from those countries to help fill rosters. Totally up to the franchise how they want to position themselves, but it may make some sense for marketing if you picked a few overseas stars and played some pre season stuff somewhere else.
A comp wil a number of teams of a similar level to MP would not be high quality. US/Japan level players would be a level below MP IMO.
I like the broadcast ideas, that would possibly fit in nicely
I hope someone in NZR are looking into these sorts of options, if it's obvious to us I'm sure it's obvious to them. This is where Sky being intertwined with NZR is a negative.
@Kirwan said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
The link to Us/Japan markets comes from recruitment from those countries to help fill rosters. Totally up to the franchise how they want to position themselves, but it may make some sense for marketing if you picked a few overseas stars and played some pre season stuff somewhere else.
A comp wil a number of teams of a similar level to MP would not be high quality. US/Japan level players would be a level below MP IMO.
Below or at. The idea would be to re spread the NZ talent, keep Drua, add in some good players from Japan/US/Canada ( only good ones and they do exist) plus add in some from Europe.
We can usually make up a tem of decent players that miss out on Super each year as well.
Maybe 10 is too many to start with? Start at 8 or 9 with expansion plans.
Key would be that you start with a player auction type thing. Protect x number from areas, ask for free agent players and put those in a pool to bid for, allow marquee players as well -
@KiwiMurph Australia should never have signed up. Terrible competition not worth saving.
@Derpus said in Super Rugby 2023:
@KiwiMurph Australia should never have signed up. Terrible competition not worth saving.
Fuck you are boring.
Edit:
Sorry - play the ball, not the man...
Fuck that post is boring.
Devoid of any content or insight, and still as vapid on the 50th attempt. -
Top 5 scenarios
- Chiefs (locked in)
- Crusaders unless they lose without a bonus to Canes AND Blues beat Highlanders with a bonus AND there's a 34 point swing
- Blues, unless the above scenario happens and they jump to 2nd. Brumbies would need a win against Rebels and a Blues loss OR Blues to win without a bonus and a huge win.
- Brumbies unless they lose to the Rebels AND the Canes beat the Saders.
- Canes, unless they beat Saders and Brumbies lose.
Odds are that the table wont change at this end.
Canes have most to gain if they could get to 4th and avoid a trip to Canberra.If that happens and all quarters are played in NZ expect Oz to tune out.
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Yay, looking like the Canes over to Canberra for the second year in a row. FFS.
Hopefully we've learned something from last year but with Holland at the helm I doubt it.
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Top 5 scenarios
- Chiefs (locked in)
- Crusaders unless they lose without a bonus to Canes AND Blues beat Highlanders with a bonus AND there's a 34 point swing
- Blues, unless the above scenario happens and they jump to 2nd. Brumbies would need a win against Rebels and a Blues loss OR Blues to win without a bonus and a huge win.
- Brumbies unless they lose to the Rebels AND the Canes beat the Saders.
- Canes, unless they beat Saders and Brumbies lose.
Odds are that the table wont change at this end.
Canes have most to gain if they could get to 4th and avoid a trip to Canberra.If that happens and all quarters are played in NZ expect Oz to tune out.
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
Brumbies would need a huge (80 plus) win against Rebels and a Blues loss OR Blues to win without a bonus.
Brumbies are only a point behind the Blues
If the Blues lose and Brumbies win they swap positions. The huge win to change points diff only comes into to it if the Blues win without a bonus point
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@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
Brumbies would need a huge (80 plus) win against Rebels and a Blues loss OR Blues to win without a bonus.
Brumbies are only a point behind the Blues
If the Blues lose and Brumbies win they swap positions. The huge win to change points diff only comes into to it if the Blues win without a bonus point
@Duluth said in Super Rugby 2023:
@Crucial said in Super Rugby 2023:
Brumbies would need a huge (80 plus) win against Rebels and a Blues loss OR Blues to win without a bonus.
Brumbies are only a point behind the Blues
If the Blues lose and Brumbies win they swap positions. The huge win to change points diff only comes into to it if the Blues win without a bonus point
Yep, got in a tangle there. Have corrected.
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The race for the bottom: 7th and 8th (Tahs sit safely in 6th). So many permutations. There are 4 matches that will impact this and each match has 4 possible outcomes (more if looking at PD)
As one of Drua or Reds will pick up Points there is really only one spot being contestedHighlanders need to either win, or hope that all of Drua, Force and Rebels lose and that the Blues don't beat them by a much bigger margin than the Force lose by.
Rebels and Drua must win for a chance.
