All Blacks 2023
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@Kiwiwomble this is one of the funniest things I've read in a while though. I never thought of that! Eddie Jones is a mastermind eh.
Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble this is one of the funniest things I've read in a while though. I never thought of that! Eddie Jones is a mastermind eh.
Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc
Well I would say without fear of being to wrong, he one of the better rugby brains around. He knows how to wind us all up, but by geez he knows rugby.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble this is one of the funniest things I've read in a while though. I never thought of that! Eddie Jones is a mastermind eh.
Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc
Well I would say without fear of being to wrong, he one of the better rugby brains around. He knows how to wind us all up, but by geez he knows rugby.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Hey I not against everyone having opinion, and some use stats to back them up, but usually stats don't paint the picture. Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc, but he get's them all into camp and see how they actually train before naming team. I reckon the best thing on stats was one I heard Tabi Matson speak about on tv when someone quoted stats to him, he says the ones we have access are of very little use in seeing how players went, and then went into explaining the ones they used, which were way over my head. As I say, doesn't stop us being able to have opinions, just most of ours (mine included) are from seeing a fraction of the picture.
no a single person is saying they dont or you shouldnt watch the game live...almost all of us do...what people are saying is when THEY DO watch...he fails to impress....and then when they look at the stats....they support that he does little impressive
what youre effectively saying is...what he does...cant be quantified...and is also invisible...but its worth it
Reuben Thorne has entered the chat.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Hey I not against everyone having opinion, and some use stats to back them up, but usually stats don't paint the picture. Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc, but he get's them all into camp and see how they actually train before naming team. I reckon the best thing on stats was one I heard Tabi Matson speak about on tv when someone quoted stats to him, he says the ones we have access are of very little use in seeing how players went, and then went into explaining the ones they used, which were way over my head. As I say, doesn't stop us being able to have opinions, just most of ours (mine included) are from seeing a fraction of the picture.
no a single person is saying they dont or you shouldnt watch the game live...almost all of us do...what people are saying is when THEY DO watch...he fails to impress....and then when they look at the stats....they support that he does little impressive
what youre effectively saying is...what he does...cant be quantified...and is also invisible...but its worth it
Reuben Thorne has entered the chat.
I couldn't stand Thorne, but I'd take later career and early career Thorne over Frizell in a heartbeat (but Mitchell era Thorne can stay at home with Frizell).
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Here's the opta stats for the end of the regular season
Where's Shannon?
I decided to answer my own question. Where is Shannon?
Well I found the data for almost the full regular season.. it doesn't include the final round robin match
Shannon 10 games (684mins) 3 dominant tackles
That's a per 80minute stat of 0.35
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
You will go so far out of your way to find positives for Foster.
I highly doubt this hasn't been a thing for decades.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
i can accept that with the caveat that his fav's dont get evaluated on the same criteria
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
"We want dominant tackles from you loosies. Nah, not you Shannon, just threaten some chicks and whack one of their mates and you're sweet"
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
You will go so far out of your way to find positives for Foster.
I highly doubt this hasn't been a thing for decades.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
You will go so far out of your way to find positives for Foster.
It's not a good idea then.
I highly doubt this hasn't been a thing for decades.
Oh, hang on..
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
"We want dominant tackles from you loosies. Nah, not you Shannon, just threaten some chicks and whack one of their mates and you're sweet"
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
"We want dominant tackles from you loosies. Nah, not you Shannon, just threaten some chicks and whack one of their mates and you're sweet"
I guess you missed the " Putting individuals and specific stats aside" bit....
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
"We want dominant tackles from you loosies. Nah, not you Shannon, just threaten some chicks and whack one of their mates and you're sweet"
I guess you missed the " Putting individuals and specific stats aside" bit....
@Victor-Meldrew Ahh right, so ignore the bits that don't jive with the positive you're trying to point out?
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
You will go so far out of your way to find positives for Foster.
It's not a good idea then.
I highly doubt this hasn't been a thing for decades.
Oh, hang on..
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
You will go so far out of your way to find positives for Foster.
It's not a good idea then.
I highly doubt this hasn't been a thing for decades.
Oh, hang on..
Oh so you acknowledge it's been happening for decades? So it's not AB coaches being
clearer
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It's clearly a shit stat. one dominant tackle per game could be Ardie or Akira scragging Mitch Hunt backwards for a few metres, whereas Sam Cane is making solid contact on big guys 10+ times per game. They may not be knocked backwards, but they're stopped and put down vs gaining momentum. A better stat would be soft-arse scrag tackles. I'm no Cane fluffer, but to pretend that Savea is a better tackler than him based on stats is just a bit silly.
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It's clearly a shit stat. one dominant tackle per game could be Ardie or Akira scragging Mitch Hunt backwards for a few metres, whereas Sam Cane is making solid contact on big guys 10+ times per game. They may not be knocked backwards, but they're stopped and put down vs gaining momentum. A better stat would be soft-arse scrag tackles. I'm no Cane fluffer, but to pretend that Savea is a better tackler than him based on stats is just a bit silly.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2023:
but to pretend that Savea is a better tackler than him based on stats is just a bit silly.
Is someone doing that? That would be dumb
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It's clearly a shit stat. one dominant tackle per game could be Ardie or Akira scragging Mitch Hunt backwards for a few metres, whereas Sam Cane is making solid contact on big guys 10+ times per game. They may not be knocked backwards, but they're stopped and put down vs gaining momentum. A better stat would be soft-arse scrag tackles. I'm no Cane fluffer, but to pretend that Savea is a better tackler than him based on stats is just a bit silly.
@reprobate pretty sure the metrics to what is considered a dominant tackle were posted many years back, and what you describe wouldn't meet it.
There were numerous variables involved, single tackler, dual tackler, if you were 1st contact, 2nd contact etc, isn't just about moving them metres, or scragging them
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
"We want dominant tackles from you loosies. Nah, not you Shannon, just threaten some chicks and whack one of their mates and you're sweet"
I guess you missed the " Putting individuals and specific stats aside" bit....
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
"We want dominant tackles from you loosies. Nah, not you Shannon, just threaten some chicks and whack one of their mates and you're sweet"
I guess you missed the " Putting individuals and specific stats aside" bit....
You expecting me to read the entirety of a post now?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2023:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
But according to Paul Cully this is the key stat that the loosies were selected on.
Putting individuals and specific stats aside, It's good the AB coaches are being clearer at the start of the season what they want to see from players. Explains SS, where it seems he exceled in some areas but needs some work-on's on others
Allows players and SR coaches to know and focus on what needed. Up to them if they do or not, but at least the requirements are clearer.
"We want dominant tackles from you loosies. Nah, not you Shannon, just threaten some chicks and whack one of their mates and you're sweet"
I guess you missed the " Putting individuals and specific stats aside" bit....
You expecting me to read the entirety of a post now?
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2023:
You expecting me to read the entirety of a post now?
Nah. The first line will do just fine.....
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 you say that like there aren't several AB match threads with loads of comments along the lines of "whats he done?"...normally stats are the counterargument when people cant see what a player provides when theyre just watching....but very few people see what he provides...and the stats dont paint a different picture....
Hey I not against everyone having opinion, and some use stats to back them up, but usually stats don't paint the picture. Even Ediie Jones reckons you can't pick teams without watching players live etc, but he get's them all into camp and see how they actually train before naming team. I reckon the best thing on stats was one I heard Tabi Matson speak about on tv when someone quoted stats to him, he says the ones we have access are of very little use in seeing how players went, and then went into explaining the ones they used, which were way over my head. As I say, doesn't stop us being able to have opinions, just most of ours (mine included) are from seeing a fraction of the picture.
no a single person is saying they dont or you shouldnt watch the game live...almost all of us do...what people are saying is when THEY DO watch...he fails to impress....and then when they look at the stats....they support that he does little impressive
what youre effectively saying is...what he does...cant be quantified...and is also invisible...but its worth it
Reuben Thorne has entered the chat.
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2023:
Reuben Thorne has entered the chat.
But just to find something to lean on..
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For an up and down year, I don't see why selectors still wouldn't want this in their team and to see if they can fix any failings.
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That Paul Cully article was stupid as shit, but he claimed that Sotutu had "inconsistent" seasons over the last two years. Sotutu was the Blues best player last year, when they won 15 games in a row. His defence was excellent. Real garbage take from a terrible "journalist".
