Titanic tourist submarine
-
Neighbour's an ex-RN submariner - CPO nuclear engineering - and he's said exactly the same thing.
-
What was the ‘catastrophic implosion’ of the Titan submersible? An expert explains
Deep underwater, the Titan submersible would have been crushed in less than a second once a defect cracked the hull.
-
@MajorRage said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@MN5 You'll find that money isn't the motivating factor for most of these types.
Power, control, influence are what it's all about. Some like to be put on a pedestal as well.
There is a limited ceiling for those that are only in it for the money and it's a long long long way beneath billionaire.
Yeah but the money gives them all those things to some extent.
Reminds me a bit of this brilliant scene
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in Titanic tourist submarine:
Neighbour's an ex-RN submariner - CPO nuclear engineering - and he's said exactly the same thing.
I've never been in a submarine, and I said exactly the same thing.
But then - I think that was @booboo 's point? EVERYBODY with half a brain knew what had happened, but it suited the media to pretend that SAR was realistic... and politically, the folks on the scene had to pretend.
-
-
When I heard Cameron's comments I took them more as a mark of genuine frustration than much else. My guess is most of us were also assuming it was a recovery mission, up until the "banging noises", made it sound like a hopeless rescue.
Sadly it sounds like anyone with any technical knowledge even remotely familiar with OceanGate were aware of a disaster waiting to happen. The latest in a long list, this is a Facebook post from Parks Stephenson, a past diver to Titanic (among many deep sea missions), and currently in charge of the USS Kidd museum.
I got the call early Monday morning, just as the sun was coming up. Titan was lost. Indications were that an implosion was recorded. The point was stressed that the information was confidential and not to be publicly shared, I was called and informed so that I could be prepared for an onslaught of media requests. I listened, not asking any questions, because I knew that I was being told all that I was going to be told. But my own experience with OceanGate helped me to fill in the blanks. I had been approached by OceanGate years ago, during construction of Titan. In my opinion, though, I had serious concerns about the design of their submersible so I turned down their offer of employment. My engineering and diving experience taught me that the safest form for a deep-ocean pressure hull was a titanium sphere…Titan’s carbon-fiber cylindrical hull with glued-on titanium endcaps seemed to ignore the physics of the deep. Now my concerns about the sub had apparently come true.
A few hours later, the news broke about the missing sub and the media requests came pouring in, starting in the UK and working its way west. I had only just recently completed multiple international interviews about the Magellan/Atlantic photogrammetry model, so everyone had my number. At first, I accepted the requests and started planning my appearances. BBC Radio 4 wanted me on immediately and I accepted, reading from a prepared statement that was similar to what I posted on my Facebook public page. But then it really hit me that this was no ordinary Titanic story…for the first time since 1912, people had died on Titanic. Did I want to be that pundit face on TV, droning on about this and that after people died and while families grieved? I discussed it with a friend who had experience in such matters and she firmly advised me to not accept any interviews, especially when a search was being mounted to locate the sub. I made apologies and cancelled my scheduled appearances and then politely but firmly declined media requests that came steadily over the next three days. I could not pontificate about the tragedy, knowing what I believed to be true and not being able to completely honest with everyone who truly cared about the fate of Titan’s crew.
As I watched the story unfold on TV, I was glad that I had cancelled my appearances. The story was fast diverging from the facts as I knew them. Reports of underwater noises, speculation about a “Goliath Awaits” scenario whereby the sub lay intact on the ocean floor with the occupants still inside, the clock counting down to the time when oxygen inside the sub would run out (no one mentioned the hypothermia that would set in after the heaters failed)…I began to question my decision to stay mute while a story that I knew to be untrue grew unchecked. But by that time, I could not rightfully talk: if I revealed privileged information about the Sunday implosion, how could my story be verified? I was not the primary source, everything I knew was secondhand. A credible journalist would never accept secondhand information without corroboration. I could not reveal my sources and any controversy I caused would not only involve me but also the Museum for which I have responsibility.
There was another reason, as well. I knew that once the search commenced, the searchers could not assume anything. Even though it was known to a certain group of people that the effect of an implosion had been recorded, it was still ultimately an assumption that it was Titan that had imploded. The search and rescue team(s) had to move with the utmost urgency with but one goal in mind: to find concrete and undeniable evidence of the sub’s loss and be fully prepared if the assumptions about the reported implosion were wrong. Only the finding and identification of the wreck would provide the closure to the loved ones of Titan’s crew. I did not want to have the urgency of the search and rescue team be questioned or hindered by essentially claiming that rescue was never an option.
Once the ships began to assemble at the site under USCG control, I exchanged messages with one of the ROV pilots that happened to be on one of the ships in the area. He kept me informed of the progress of the search, but unfortunately, the assembled ships first on the scene (from the gas & oil industry) did not have exactly the capability or experience to conduct a proper search around Titanic. When I was informed that French marine science agency, IFREMER, was bringing their equipment and expertise to bear (IFREMER’s ROV pilot was a close friend and colleague of Paul-Henri Nargeolet, one of Titan’s crew), then I knew that the wreck would soon be found and this big show would come to a rightful end. The crew of the Titan never knew of the media circus that gathered around the story of their demise, or the fantastic alternate endings that they created from half-truths, supposition and rumour. I felt sorry, though, for the families who had to listen to all of this. Personally speaking, I would want to suffer an instant death through implosion than the prolonged death suggested by the pundits.
I am telling my story now only because the US Navy has just now confirmed that the implosion was in fact recorded on Sunday. They are corroborating the information that I was initially given. I am speaking up now because I want to provide an explanation why a search and rescue effort had to be undertaken with the goal of confirming what happened to Titan, even when information about an implosion was available. I also want to support a growing effort by the submersible community to push a requirement for all passenger-carrying submersibles to be class-rated (certified). Most of the deep-ocean submersibles in operation have been certified, OceanGate’s Titan was the sole exception. The safety margins in the extreme deep are very thin and do not accommodate errors in design, construction or management. Certification is a proven process that helps us stay ahead of that fatal curve.
Above all of this, though, I have not forgotten that this was a human tragedy. My heart goes out to the loved ones that Titan’s crew left behind. While the crew’s death may have been mercifully instantaneous, the anguish of loss will last forever with their families and friends. I personally knew only Paul-Henri Nargeolet, a man with whom I went on expedition with multiple times, and not just to Titanic. An incredibly experienced submersible pilot, I personally believe that PH’s last action was to drop ascent weights to head for the surface before the hull imploded, as his first concern was always for his crew, but we may never know that for certain. In the deep-ocean community, his departure will always be felt.
I wonder at what stage the families were told about the suspected detection of an implosion.
-
Turns out the bloke in charge had plenty of equally talented people enabling him. Given this is after the fact...
An investor in OceanGate, who made the same trip to the Titanic in August 2021, has come to the defence of CEO Stockton Rush, who was piloting the Titan when it imploded.
Aaron Newman told the BBC’s Michelle Fleury that the idea Rush had done anything wrong was "disingenuous".
"Stockton spoke to me for hours about ocean exploration," he said of his decision to invest in the company.
"His passion was amazing and I bought into it."
Newman credited Rush for "doing something far beyond what anybody else had" in creating a reusable sub, which he said was comfortable enough to carry several people and relied on an unconventional design.
"If the Wright brothers had crashed their plane, what would people be saying about them?" he asked.
Source: The live BBC feed.
-
@Donsteppa said in Titanic tourist submarine:
When I heard Cameron's comments I took them more as a mark of genuine frustration than much else. My guess is most of us were also assuming it was a recovery mission, up until the "banging noises", made it sound like a hopeless rescue.
Sadly it sounds like anyone with any technical knowledge even remotely familiar with OceanGate were aware of a disaster waiting to happen. The latest in a long list, this is a Facebook post from Parks Stephenson, a past diver to Titanic (among many deep sea missions), and currently in charge of the USS Kidd museum.
I got the call early Monday morning, just as the sun was coming up. Titan was lost. -snip-
I wonder at what stage the families were told about the suspected detection of an implosion.
Well it is all very good for him to be dismissive of the press etc, when they weren't told that the implosion was heard, and then were told there was regular banging every 30 mins. What an arrogant tool that guy is, 'I had the knowledge of what happened, everyone else were dumb for not knowing this'
-
@Machpants said in Titanic tourist submarine:
@Donsteppa said in Titanic tourist submarine:
When I heard Cameron's comments I took them more as a mark of genuine frustration than much else. My guess is most of us were also assuming it was a recovery mission, up until the "banging noises", made it sound like a hopeless rescue.
Sadly it sounds like anyone with any technical knowledge even remotely familiar with OceanGate were aware of a disaster waiting to happen. The latest in a long list, this is a Facebook post from Parks Stephenson, a past diver to Titanic (among many deep sea missions), and currently in charge of the USS Kidd museum.
I got the call early Monday morning, just as the sun was coming up. Titan was lost. -snip-
I wonder at what stage the families were told about the suspected detection of an implosion.
Well it is all very good for him to be dismissive of the press etc, when they weren't told that the implosion was heard, and then were told there was regular banging every 30 mins. What an arrogant tool that guy is, 'I had the knowledge of what happened, everyone else were dumb for not knowing this'
His views on OceanGate might have been more useful than the rest...
From memory the banging was certainly referenced by the Coast Guard, I'm wondering whether the 30 minute frequency was ever official, or whether it was optimistically introduced somewhere along the way.
(From a quick skim: https://www.news.uscg.mil/Press-Releases/Article/3435166/joint-search-continues-for-missing-submersible-titan/ mentions "Underwater sounds have been detected in the search area, resulting in the redirection of remotely operated vehicle (ROV) operations to explore the origin. These recordings have been shared with the U.S. Navy for analysis to help guide future search efforts.", maybe in the press conferences themselves, or otherwise...?)
-
--getting my threads mixed again--
-
-
@taniwharugby said in Titanic tourist submarine:
There's a great comment in one of those videos: The Michael Scott of deepwater exploration.
-
So... I just happen to currently be
playingsolving thenerd-gamepuzzle BioShock... and as I come to the "Submarine Bay" - what do I find? A vehicle which includes a perfect fucking sphere as the main component for passengers. ... even nerd-game developers know that is how shit works. -
@Kruse said in Titanic tourist submarine:
So... I just happen to currently be
playingsolving thenerd-gamepuzzle BioShock... and as I come to the "Submarine Bay" - what do I find? A vehicle which includes a perfect fucking sphere as the main component for passengers. Cause... even nerd-game developers know that is how shit works.
-
@Kruse said in Titanic tourist submarine:
vehicle which includes a perfect fucking sphere
that would explain the constant banging every 30 minutes.
Titanic tour CEO didn't hire '50-year-old white guys' because they...
