Super Rugby 2024
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat dont bundle up the "evil" crusaders with the poor humble Highlanders!
in all seriousness...you do know they just won...of course they compete with the other franchises, they just got their academy and development (helped with cashed up Ta$man luring people down for NPC too) earlier than others...that breeds success...and success attracts talent...its now self fulfilling to a degree
The Highlanders coaching has been part of the problem... couldn't get the best out of Lo-Willie, Bower, etc. or help them realize their potential, same could be said for Josh Ioane & co who're now thriving at the Chiefs under McMillan...
The difference between Razor (and say Leon at the Blue$...) is his continual development and progression of his players, in contrast to many All Blacks such as Finlay, Beauden, Akira, Hoskins, RTS, etc.. who have all gone backwards under Leon.
Razor has a unique ability to get the most out of all types of players, no matter how talented they may be, over the years he's developed quite a few limited players into All Blacks & XV members, guys like Brewis, Christie, McAlister, Gardiner, McLeod, Drummond, Bridge, Perry, Ennor, Bower, Lo-Willie, etc.. were/will never be long-term All Blacks. Most of these players wouldn't be talented enough to start for other franchises, Hurricanes, Chiefs, Blues.
Look at guys like Sykes-Martin, Gardiner, O'Neill, Heinz, etc.. contributing off the bench in the playoffs, they certainly don't make the 23 of the other NZ franchises.
Many of those players who have flourished under Razor's coaching have been discards or unwanted by other franchises & have come from nowhere like George Bower. I can't recall Razor signing already developed All Blacks from other franchises.
He's skillful enough to take rough unrefined talent (with limitations that would see them not make other franchises) and still produce diamonds out of them - performances at Super Rugby level. Lio-Willie is another who wasn't even good enough to make the Highlanders 23 and now he's thriving under the superior coaching under Razor.
Unlike Leon's Blues from 2019-2023 where he signed established All Blacks from other franchises - Laulala, Big Carl, Barrett, and their development all stalled.
@kiwi_expat Lio-Willie was ignored by Otago for too long. Then when the Highlanders did notice him they didn't take his talent seriously. He should have immediately been given a decent contract. Instead, was a cover player. By the time he was on the paddock for us, he was starting, then got injured. At that point he probably made up his mind. Bower, Moorby and Hotham are the other ones where more of an effort should have been made.
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@kiwi_expat Lio-Willie was ignored by Otago for too long. Then when the Highlanders did notice him they didn't take his talent seriously. He should have immediately been given a decent contract. Instead, was a cover player. By the time he was on the paddock for us, he was starting, then got injured. At that point he probably made up his mind. Bower, Moorby and Hotham are the other ones where more of an effort should have been made.
@SouthernMann how long has Leo-willie been in otago? did he actually come down as a first year so maybe 6 years ago? or was it more recently for rugby?
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@Duluth said in Super Rugby 2024:
The reporting on the coaching changes has been unreliable. However there was a report a couple of weeks ago the that Cotter removed himself from consideration for the Crusaders job
It seems to make sense. First, it's hard to argue for Penney over Cotter. Plus Cotter had a more lucrative offer from the Blues, and even more lucrative offers from French clubs
It a fair point isn't it, South Island franchises Highlanders and Crusaders simply can't compete with those cashed up Blues and their third-party deals, there's a reason Leon only coached Ta$man - then abruptly left his Crusaders assistant post after just 1 season for the Blue$ top job citing 'family reasons' lol... Super Rugby isn't exactly a level playing field these days is it?
@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
It a fair point isn't it, South Island franchises Highlanders and Crusaders simply can't compete with those cashed up Blues and their third-party deals, there's a reason Leon only coached Ta$man - then abruptly left his Crusaders assistant post after just 1 season for the Blue$ top job citing 'family reasons' lol... Super Rugby isn't exactly a level playing field these days is it?
Sorry mate, but your point about Leon and Ta$man is total bollocks - perpetuated on the Fern by a bunch of financial illiterates and a couple of fuckwits who think they are funny.
On page 28 of this State of the Union report.... https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/nz/Documents/consumer-business/nz-en-2017-state-of-the-unions-report-final.pdf
..you will see in Leon's first year as Head Coach, Ta$man has the fourth lowest team and match-related costs - we finished runner up to Canterbury in the competition, with less than half of their budget. Ta$man occupy a similar position in each of the State of the Union reports except 2018, when we hosted the Argentina test match under a special arrangement with NZ Rugby and our match related expenditures and revenues each jumped by a large amount.
What you actually saw at Ta$man was a masterclass of identification of young talent and team building, by Leon and Kieran Keane.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
It a fair point isn't it, South Island franchises Highlanders and Crusaders simply can't compete with those cashed up Blues and their third-party deals, there's a reason Leon only coached Ta$man - then abruptly left his Crusaders assistant post after just 1 season for the Blue$ top job citing 'family reasons' lol... Super Rugby isn't exactly a level playing field these days is it?
Sorry mate, but your point about Leon and Ta$man is total bollocks - perpetuated on the Fern by a bunch of financial illiterates and a couple of fuckwits who think they are funny.
On page 28 of this State of the Union report.... https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/nz/Documents/consumer-business/nz-en-2017-state-of-the-unions-report-final.pdf
..you will see in Leon's first year as Head Coach, Ta$man has the fourth lowest team and match-related costs - we finished runner up to Canterbury in the competition, with less than half of their budget. Ta$man occupy a similar position in each of the State of the Union reports except 2018, when we hosted the Argentina test match under a special arrangement with NZ Rugby and our match related expenditures and revenues each jumped by a large amount.
What you actually saw at Ta$man was a masterclass of identification of young talent and team building, by Leon and Kieran Keane.
@Chris-B It's a fair critique of Leon's time at the Blues though - Leon's strength at the Blues has been putting together strong teams on paper (both on the field and in regards to his coaching team). In terms of converting that talent to on field success it's been up and down. For a coach known for his attack the Blues attacking shape has been awfully disappointing this year.
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@Chris-B It's a fair critique of Leon's time at the Blues though - Leon's strength at the Blues has been putting together strong teams on paper (both on the field and in regards to his coaching team). In terms of converting that talent to on field success it's been up and down. For a coach known for his attack the Blues attacking shape has been awfully disappointing this year.
@KiwiMurph That's a fair assessment at the Blues - he built a good team, but hasn't quite got them over the line (except in the Smash the Aussies version). And they've gone backwards this year. Compared to previous versions of the Blues he's been pretty good, but maybe leaving at the right time.
Razor has picked him and clearly knows what he's getting, so I think that's a pretty solid endorsement.
He also didn't go directly to the Blues - he finished with the Crusaders in 2017 and went to the Blues in 2019, and was only supposed to be an assistant to Tana.
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@KiwiMurph That's a fair assessment at the Blues - he built a good team, but hasn't quite got them over the line (except in the Smash the Aussies version). And they've gone backwards this year. Compared to previous versions of the Blues he's been pretty good, but maybe leaving at the right time.
Razor has picked him and clearly knows what he's getting, so I think that's a pretty solid endorsement.
He also didn't go directly to the Blues - he finished with the Crusaders in 2017 and went to the Blues in 2019, and was only supposed to be an assistant to Tana.
@Chris-B said in Super Rugby 2024:
Razor has picked him as an assistant coach (alongside another assistant coach who is helping the attack in Holland) and clearly knows what he's getting, so I think that's a pretty solid endorsement as an assistant coach.
Fixed.
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No ABs. And during the 6 nations v Munster
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No ABs. And during the 6 nations v Munster
@Winger Yep, Ireland play France (away) on 2 February and England play Wales (home) on 10 February 2024.
These games are played during our preseason, so an under-cooked Crusaders team without ABs and Munster and Bristol Bears teams without their test players (but mid-season).
It will still attract crowds though.
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Came down as a student is my understanding. I think he had a decent 2019 season. Had a stormer in 2020 albeit covid interrupted. Then made Otago 2021. Probably an issue with not coming down as an acadamey player
@SouthernMann said in Super Rugby 2024:
Came down as a student is my understanding. I think he had a decent 2019 season. Had a stormer in 2020 albeit covid interrupted. Then made Otago 2021. Probably an issue with not coming down as an acadamey player
Came down to Otago Uni on a rugby scholarship, but not through the Highlanders or Otago... I don't even know if he was in the academy. Just one of those guys who might have matured a little bit later, because I could be wrong, but I think he was initially more of an openside flanker, but he was quality as an 8 for Otago and should have been used way earlier. First in the Otago squad in 2021 I believe? Really good kid, and wish him the best with the Crusaders. Was the right move for him.
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@SouthernMann said in Super Rugby 2024:
Came down as a student is my understanding. I think he had a decent 2019 season. Had a stormer in 2020 albeit covid interrupted. Then made Otago 2021. Probably an issue with not coming down as an acadamey player
Came down to Otago Uni on a rugby scholarship, but not through the Highlanders or Otago... I don't even know if he was in the academy. Just one of those guys who might have matured a little bit later, because I could be wrong, but I think he was initially more of an openside flanker, but he was quality as an 8 for Otago and should have been used way earlier. First in the Otago squad in 2021 I believe? Really good kid, and wish him the best with the Crusaders. Was the right move for him.
@frugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Super Rugby 2024:
Came down as a student is my understanding. I think he had a decent 2019 season. Had a stormer in 2020 albeit covid interrupted. Then made Otago 2021. Probably an issue with not coming down as an acadamey player
Came down to Otago Uni on a rugby scholarship, but not through the Highlanders or Otago... I don't even know if he was in the academy. Just one of those guys who might have matured a little bit later, because I could be wrong, but I think he was initially more of an openside flanker, but he was quality as an 8 for Otago and should have been used way earlier. First in the Otago squad in 2021 I believe? Really good kid, and wish him the best with the Crusaders. Was the right move for him.
Play for the champions of the team that finished 9th. Seems an easy choice.
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No ABs. And during the 6 nations v Munster
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
No ABs. And during the 6 nations v Munster
Yeah crusaders B (with no game time) vs NH B with game time. Saders will lose to Munster, beat the almost relegated Bristol in a pretty average pair of games
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the five New Zealand Super Rugby Clubs having signed a collective five year agreement with Australasian apparel brand – Classic.
The partnership will see each club expand their range and offer greater official and supporter apparel options for fans, including the potential of heritage or themed jerseys and a range of training and on-field items.https://www.blues.rugby/blues-rugby-news/expanded-apparel-range-key-to-new-classic-partnership
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im actually kind of excited we might might get some cool stuff next year...might actually get some retro jerseys and better supports gear
looks like exactly the same announcement on the Highlander page
https://thehighlanders.co.nz/news/expanded-apparel-range-key-to-new-classic-partnership/
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the five New Zealand Super Rugby Clubs having signed a collective five year agreement with Australasian apparel brand – Classic.
The partnership will see each club expand their range and offer greater official and supporter apparel options for fans, including the potential of heritage or themed jerseys and a range of training and on-field items.https://www.blues.rugby/blues-rugby-news/expanded-apparel-range-key-to-new-classic-partnership
@Daffy-Jaffy all teams were with Adidas this year werent they (and since 1999, which at the time was a full kit out?) so is interesting they are all moving away but ABs staying.
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i support the sharks in the NRL so had a quick look at their store...loads of cool stuff, hope we can get even a fraction of that range
big fan of the heritage jersey template
looks like they have 24 different types of hat (caps, beanies etc), more likely to grab one of those than a jersey now days
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I had heard about the change to Classic late last year and was sworn to secrecy. From what I've heard, they very nearly re-signed with Adidas but changed their minds last minute, Adidas were filthy. Source comes from a jersey designer for one of the super teams.
I've kinda grown to like Adidas but it doesn't bother me who gets it as long as it looks good and fits good, seems like Classic have some good ambition with gear though.
Apparently also the reason we have never got heritage jerseys based off the 97/98/99 designs is because CCC still own the designs so unsure how that will work out with Classic moving forward.
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I had heard about the change to Classic late last year and was sworn to secrecy. From what I've heard, they very nearly re-signed with Adidas but changed their minds last minute, Adidas were filthy. Source comes from a jersey designer for one of the super teams.
I've kinda grown to like Adidas but it doesn't bother me who gets it as long as it looks good and fits good, seems like Classic have some good ambition with gear though.
Apparently also the reason we have never got heritage jerseys based off the 97/98/99 designs is because CCC still own the designs so unsure how that will work out with Classic moving forward.
@Yeetyaah i wonder why they take so long to announce these things
I feel Adidas had been phoning it for years so happy for someone else to have a go
ive heard that before about CCC still owning the rights to the designs. There is a couple of questions i always have about that though, the Chiefs/adidas did bring out a heritage jersey a couple of years back...so worst case CCC seem have been open to it before
but, the bigger question. In every case ive know with a service provider...its the end client that owns the final product, so my understanding would be CCC might be able to own the IP for the creation of the jerseys, any manufacturing secrets or whatever...but what was actually produced should belong to NZR/Franchises.
In the case of the Highlanders Tartan Jersey, At the time it was advertised as the Highlanders Official Tartan, officially made for the Highlanders by the Scottish Register of Tartans...so i dont see how CCC could own that
all very weird and if CCC does own some sort of rights over previous designs it seems very unusual and someone at NZR fucked up
