Argentina v All Blacks
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The quality of SR has reduced in recent years. Looking a million bucks at that level should absolutely get you a shot at higher honours, which both SS and Roigard will get, but it is no guarantee they will succeed, especially in the first test of the year against a quality opposition that will be fired up in front of their home crowd. Honestly if Fozzie threw a bunch of rookies in and we lost badly, he'd be lynched on here even more than usual for ruining both the AB legacy and those rookies confidence.
@Steve are you serious about Mo'unga?! The guy has had AMPLE opportunity to make 10 his own, and only really has since Beauden's form dropped off. He was given the keys for the RWC19!! Which reinforces my point above - even the greatest Super player of ALL TIME has struggled to make the step up.
I remember Henry talking about this, how some players have what it takes at the next level, whereas others don't, and it's not immediately obvious who will succeed but they had certain qualities they were looking for. One thing is for sure though, throwing rookies in the deep end in the modern game just doesn't really work anymore, and can really wreck their confidence.
@No-Quarter said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Steve are you serious about Mo'unga?! The guy has had AMPLE opportunity to make 10 his own, and only really has since Beauden's form dropped off. He was given the keys for the RWC19!! Which reinforces my point above - even the greatest Super player of ALL TIME has struggled to make the step up.
In his excuse it has been a lot of the time with BB at 15, diluting his authority. SImilar to Marcus Smith and Farrell at 12. When Beaudy was ten and DMac 15, I think it worked better. BB was running the show, senior, DMac was second playmaker. Then DMac got injured so they just pushed BB to 15 and Mo'unga to 10. But BB was still senior, preferred to play 10 etc. Also both look crap with our forwards getting monstered by almost everyone who counts
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The quality of SR has reduced in recent years. Looking a million bucks at that level should absolutely get you a shot at higher honours, which both SS and Roigard will get, but it is no guarantee they will succeed, especially in the first test of the year against a quality opposition that will be fired up in front of their home crowd. Honestly if Fozzie threw a bunch of rookies in and we lost badly, he'd be lynched on here even more than usual for ruining both the AB legacy and those rookies confidence.
@Steve are you serious about Mo'unga?! The guy has had AMPLE opportunity to make 10 his own, and only really has since Beauden's form dropped off. He was given the keys for the RWC19!! Which reinforces my point above - even the greatest Super player of ALL TIME has struggled to make the step up.
I remember Henry talking about this, how some players have what it takes at the next level, whereas others don't, and it's not immediately obvious who will succeed but they had certain qualities they were looking for. One thing is for sure though, throwing rookies in the deep end in the modern game just doesn't really work anymore, and can really wreck their confidence.
@No-Quarter said in Argentina v All Blacks:
The quality of SR has reduced in recent years. Looking a million bucks at that level should absolutely get you a shot at higher honours, which both SS and Roigard will get, but it is no guarantee they will succeed, especially in the first test of the year against a quality opposition that will be fired up in front of their home crowd. Honestly if Fozzie threw a bunch of rookies in and we lost badly, he'd be lynched on here even more than usual for ruining both the AB legacy and those rookies confidence.
@Steve are you serious about Mo'unga?! The guy has had AMPLE opportunity to make 10 his own, and only really has since Beauden's form dropped off. He was given the keys for the RWC19!! Which reinforces my point above - even the greatest Super player of ALL TIME has struggled to make the step up.
I remember Henry talking about this, how some players have what it takes at the next level, whereas others don't, and it's not immediately obvious who will succeed but they had certain qualities they were looking for. One thing is for sure though, throwing rookies in the deep end in the modern game just doesn't really work anymore, and can really wreck their confidence.
Nah. Not buying it. Mo'unga was caught up in a dual pivot fandango from the start.
Mo'unga with Stevenson at 15 is different to having Beaudy (the highest paid player at the time) hanging round behind you.
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Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina v All Blacks:
Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
Agree. I was annoyed when I initially saw it. It looks worse now. This is who we have running NZ rugby now. Soft men it seems with a female chair.
I certainly wouldn't wear it. I would buy it for a baby boys present though if it was designed just for this market.
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Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina v All Blacks:
Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
It's a training shirt what's the big deal
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina v All Blacks:
Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
It's a training shirt what's the big deal
@KiwiMurph said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina v All Blacks:
Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
It's a training shirt what's the big deal
Isn't this also the actual RWC Jersey design? Maybe it's not then no issue. I want a black Jersey with limited white or silly designs on it
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I really hope the snail trail is not this visible on the match Jersey, and this is just their training shirts. Because in no way is that now a plain black shirt
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/a2NRfIiVdc-RDKsQS6CTmerwGpU=/1440x960/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/MDRAMV2TW5CBBHRVKKMULZEZB4.jpg@Machpants said in Argentina v All Blacks:
I really hope the snail trail is not this visible on the match Jersey, and this is just their training shirts. Because in no way is that now a plain black shirt
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/a2NRfIiVdc-RDKsQS6CTmerwGpU=/1440x960/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/MDRAMV2TW5CBBHRVKKMULZEZB4.jpgAfter using the strategy dartboard, we now know how Foster plans to use his subs.
As a result JB has to explain to BB that the 7 jersey means he now has to join the forwards. BB clearly not impressed by being called a forward, but also worried about now actually having to make tackles. -
@KiwiMurph said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina v All Blacks:
Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
It's a training shirt what's the big deal
Isn't this also the actual RWC Jersey design? Maybe it's not then no issue. I want a black Jersey with limited white or silly designs on it
@Winger it's the training jersey. The playing jersey has the same design with a black print. Still fugly AF.
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter Roigard is still green? So do we play him now or in the RWC if he's seriously a contender? You know, when he's still green? We have 4 tests. 4. Before France. We still don't know who our best loose forwards are. Centres. Wings. Full back. 10. More than half the team.
Who is We?
I'm not privy to the selectors discussions, but it's pretty clear that Cane and Savea are locked into the loose trio and, barring injuries, I'd bet plenty that Scott Barrett is their preferred blindside.
The midfield will almost certainly be Jordie and certainly Rieko.
Wings is a bit iffy, but will be clearer next week.
Mo'unga will be their 10 unless DMac absolutely knocks their socks off.
@Chris-B you're missing the point. We might have our best players in those positions but they've been f@cked around for so long they've had no real opportunity to gel. JB played damn well at 12 after an injury forced change then the next test he was gone. Etc etc.
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@Chris-B you're missing the point. We might have our best players in those positions but they've been f@cked around for so long they've had no real opportunity to gel. JB played damn well at 12 after an injury forced change then the next test he was gone. Etc etc.
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Chris-B you're missing the point. We might have our best players in those positions but they've been f@cked around for so long they've had no real opportunity to gel. JB played damn well at 12 after an injury forced change then the next test he was gone. Etc etc.
JBs chopping and changing from 12 to 15 on the EOYT made no sense. I didn't see a lot of cohesion to our selection strategy
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@KiwiMurph said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina v All Blacks:
Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
It's a training shirt what's the big deal
Isn't this also the actual RWC Jersey design? Maybe it's not then no issue. I want a black Jersey with limited white or silly designs on it
@Winger said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@KiwiMurph said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Argentina v All Blacks:
Jeez those shirts look bloody awful. Like a child's gone mad with chalk on a snooker table.
It's a training shirt what's the big deal
Isn't this also the actual RWC Jersey design? Maybe it's not then no issue. I want a black Jersey with limited white or silly designs on it
You can barely tell the designs on the playing jersey - nothing like the training jersey.
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@Dan54
If you agree with me or not I don't care it is a forum everyone has opinions.
I don't think I called you an idiot at all just opinionated.@Chris said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Dan54
If you agree with me or not I don't care it is a forum everyone has opinions.
I don't think I called you an idiot at all just opinionated.Yep same as mate, I was actually saying it good we all ahve opinions, and maybe you didn't call me an idiot, but were pretty disparaging of me having an opinion is all
"That is a matter of opinion if you think that selection v Argentina is a good one then I think you have no idea at all.Just whatever Foster does or selects is all unicorns and Rainbows as far you are concerned."
See what I mean? Burt anyway no worries.
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@Chris I actually like the team picked for this test, and actually like the 36 man squad. So I guess I another huh, I will obviously have to bow to your superior knowledge.
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@Chris-B you're missing the point. We might have our best players in those positions but they've been f@cked around for so long they've had no real opportunity to gel. JB played damn well at 12 after an injury forced change then the next test he was gone. Etc etc.
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Chris-B you're missing the point. We might have our best players in those positions but they've been f@cked around for so long they've had no real opportunity to gel. JB played damn well at 12 after an injury forced change then the next test he was gone. Etc etc.
That seems like a different point to the one you made earlier, which was that we don't know who half our best team is. I'll just finish dealing with that one by saying that if everyone who has a chance of being fit and available in October was fit and available and the Quarterfinal was played tomorrow, I'd be disappointed if I couldn't correctly pick 20 of the 23 names. I reckon most people here could.
Thing about Fozzie's job that is obvious, but gets missed everywhere, is that he's not dealing with robots - he's dealing with people and it's fucking complex. Firstly, he's got to win. He's got to keep his core group of players happy. He's got to develop the up and comers. And he's got to demote and sack people - on a weekly basis.
People usually don't like that, so he's got to be a lot more careful than punters on a chat site. So this week, a general Fern message is, "Hey Shaun, you're a shiny newbie - we'll give you a go and if you do well we'll fucking sack Beaudy. You're alright with that aren't you Beaudy...".
Which might be OK as long as Shaun does do well and next week we're not, "Hey, Beaudy mate...."
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Chris-B you're missing the point. We might have our best players in those positions but they've been f@cked around for so long they've had no real opportunity to gel. JB played damn well at 12 after an injury forced change then the next test he was gone. Etc etc.
That seems like a different point to the one you made earlier, which was that we don't know who half our best team is. I'll just finish dealing with that one by saying that if everyone who has a chance of being fit and available in October was fit and available and the Quarterfinal was played tomorrow, I'd be disappointed if I couldn't correctly pick 20 of the 23 names. I reckon most people here could.
Thing about Fozzie's job that is obvious, but gets missed everywhere, is that he's not dealing with robots - he's dealing with people and it's fucking complex. Firstly, he's got to win. He's got to keep his core group of players happy. He's got to develop the up and comers. And he's got to demote and sack people - on a weekly basis.
People usually don't like that, so he's got to be a lot more careful than punters on a chat site. So this week, a general Fern message is, "Hey Shaun, you're a shiny newbie - we'll give you a go and if you do well we'll fucking sack Beaudy. You're alright with that aren't you Beaudy...".
Which might be OK as long as Shaun does do well and next week we're not, "Hey, Beaudy mate...."
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Sooooo. I don’t want to change the subject unnecessarily, but is anyone keen to discuss game tactics rather than selection choices?
Any thoughts on what this AB team has to do to get out of Argentina with a W?
Any predictions on how we will play given selections (other than using Friz as our primary battering ram cos he’s amazing)
Any thoughts on how Argentina will try’s to control the game?
Appreciate its not as much fun as whining about the team make-up, but desperate times and all that!
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NZ kick well, NZ win
Grubbers through and chips over to keep the Argentinian backline onside/honest
Long exits inside own 22, whether from 10 or box kicking from 9
JB kicking from first and second receiver on attack to pin Argentina inside their own 22
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Sooooo. I don’t want to change the subject unnecessarily, but is anyone keen to discuss game tactics rather than selection choices?
Any thoughts on what this AB team has to do to get out of Argentina with a W?
Any predictions on how we will play given selections (other than using Friz as our primary battering ram cos he’s amazing)
Any thoughts on how Argentina will try’s to control the game?
Appreciate its not as much fun as whining about the team make-up, but desperate times and all that!
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@voodoo We don't want to stuck in a battle of attrition, especially with 60m of our line. Quality of kicking and chasing will be very important.
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At this stage of the cycle we should have a core 12 players and then time and wiggle room for a flavour of the month , a Milner Skudder type with the hot hand (Stevenson) to be the icing on the cake.
4 games from word cup and we are still fluting around with Frizell, Beaudy, Caleb.
Its an omni shambles.
Mo'unga has won super rugby 7 years on the spin??? Is that right? And he has never been properly given the keys to the castle.
I love DMAC. He could play a blinder this week....and you know what happens next week? He is either dropped or shunted to 15 so Mo'unga gets a go.
EVERYONE has been done a disservice since 2019 including Beaudy. Backrow the same.
@Steve said in Argentina v All Blacks:
At this stage of the cycle we should have a core 12 players and then time and wiggle room for a flavour of the month , a Milner Skudder type with the hot hand (Stevenson) to be the icing on the cake.
Your core 12 players are De Groot, Taukeiaho, Lomax, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, Savea, Smith, Mounga, J Barrett, Ioane, Jordan.
They're playing the Boks 6 days after this match on the other side of the world so of course they're resting players, particularly those who had a full on Super season.
I'm no fan of Foster but my god the whining on here is pretty insufferable at times, the ABs have named a weakened team, we don't all agree with it, but it's happened before it'll happen again. Life goes on.
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in Argentina v All Blacks:
@Chris-B you're missing the point. We might have our best players in those positions but they've been f@cked around for so long they've had no real opportunity to gel. JB played damn well at 12 after an injury forced change then the next test he was gone. Etc etc.
That seems like a different point to the one you made earlier, which was that we don't know who half our best team is. I'll just finish dealing with that one by saying that if everyone who has a chance of being fit and available in October was fit and available and the Quarterfinal was played tomorrow, I'd be disappointed if I couldn't correctly pick 20 of the 23 names. I reckon most people here could.
Thing about Fozzie's job that is obvious, but gets missed everywhere, is that he's not dealing with robots - he's dealing with people and it's fucking complex. Firstly, he's got to win. He's got to keep his core group of players happy. He's got to develop the up and comers. And he's got to demote and sack people - on a weekly basis.
People usually don't like that, so he's got to be a lot more careful than punters on a chat site. So this week, a general Fern message is, "Hey Shaun, you're a shiny newbie - we'll give you a go and if you do well we'll fucking sack Beaudy. You're alright with that aren't you Beaudy...".
Which might be OK as long as Shaun does do well and next week we're not, "Hey, Beaudy mate...."
@Chris-B it's not just the best players in their positions. It's combinations. Nonu and Smith played 60 odd tests together as well as SR matches. Reid, McCaw, Kaino etc.
