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@antipodean I know, as far your concerned, she's 100% male. That point is coming across loud and clear.
I didn't want to go down the wormhole this far, as I think a lot of my thoughts are perhaps more emotionally based in that I genuinely feel extremely sorry for her.
I'll take a second attempt at just leaving it there.
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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@antipodean I know, as far your concerned, she's 100% male. That point is coming across loud and clear.
That looks suspiciously like assigning me an argument I'm not making; "100% male". I don't see anyone in this thread, least of all me, asserting Caster has external male genitalia. I've been at pains to rely on qualified expertise.
I didn't want to go down the wormhole this far, as I think a lot of my thoughts are perhaps more emotionally based in that I genuinely feel extremely sorry for her.
I have empathy for anyone suffering from DSD. But that doesn't change the point of safeguarding female sport:
So the “decision makers” are aware that athletes affected 5-ARD are male, and that they experience the benefits of male puberty. The requirement to reduce T to typical female levels isn’t discriminatory, since these are males who are asking to compete in the female category. But more significantly, all the relevant scientific evidence shows that reducing male T in adulthood does not undo the physical benefits of male puberty. -
@Bones why are you being combatative? I thought your position was quite clear as you wrote this:
Isn't that it though? Someone incorrectly decided SC is a female because no dick. When in actual fact, they're a bloke. Without a dick
I’m really just quoting you back to you.
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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones why are you being combatative? I thought your position was quite clear as you wrote this:
Isn't that it though? Someone incorrectly decided SC is a female because no dick. When in actual fact, they're a bloke. Without a dick
I’m really just quoting you back to you.
Ok, so to put it back to you. You think SC is a female, because tits?
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@antipodean ok your right, you don’t say she was 100% male.
In my view you’ve implied that with your one sentence answers such as “she’s xy” etc.
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15 minutes in here this morning finds me aching to return to the Shakespeare in Love debate...
I haven't done any research on CS or others, so won't comment on specifics. But I definitely fall into the category of "we have to protect the masses over the rights of an unlucky individual". I feel for those caught up in this, but having internal testes might just have to be one of those things that means that pro (womens) sport isn't an avenue you can pursue. I had the same thing happen to me, when my pro (male) sports career was curtailed at a young age because I was fat and lazy. Sometimes life just deals you a raw deal.
I've also had the experience of watching my daughter get beaten in an athletics event by a bloke - it was only High Jump (thanks Bones), not her favoured event, so I didn't get too upset - but if had been one of her running events and he had prevented her from progressing through the pathways, I'd have been pretty upset.
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@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
Mind always in the gutter Bones!
And no need to call me Jesus bro, seems overkill.
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@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
I chuckled at that too.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
I chuckled at that too.
maybe I'll edit then, if the mind of a respected enforcement officer also went there...
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@voodoo said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
Mind always in the gutter Bones!
And no need to call me Jesus bro, seems overkill.
Now you're trying to get me banned
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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@antipodean ok your right, you don’t say she was 100% male.
In my view you’ve implied that with your one sentence answers such as “she’s xy” etc.
Ok, well I can assure you you're inferring what isn't implied. "100% male" seemed to me to be a loaded statement.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@paremata said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
The term “assigned at birth” is based around external genitalia obviously. It’s a recent turn of phrase the trans community have adopted along with gender identity to muddy things.
Bit bored so I did some googling. Some surprising figures,
The term has little to do with the trans community and has been around in medical circles for decades. Google shows the sex of around 1 in 200 babies is indeterminate at birth and can weeks before it becomes clear and determined. Surprised by that - perhaps something which isn't talked about?
Even then about 0.2% of births result in genital ambiguity and are classed as intersex. That intersex figure is even higher if you count things like hormone levels & Chromosomes. Surprised by those figures but they are referenced, so assume many are regarded as a medical condition treatable with surgery, drugs etc in the West.
For what it’s worth her school principal thought she was a boy till she was 16 .
Read she suffered real abuse at school as she looked like a boy and often forced to strip to show her genitals or lack thereof. Regarded as a freak, she had a pretty appalling childhood because of the way she was born
When did you first hear the phrase “assigned at birth”? It’s only recently escaped the trans community and medical circles and surfaced on articles about trans people in the media etc .
It’s a silly phrase that is usually a signal you’re dealing with a loon , much like insisting on they/them pronouns.
My mother was a nurse and told me about a couple of kids born on her watch . One had no anus and got a colostomy bag until they gave it surgery before it went to school . Another had six fingers on one one hand and surprisingly wasn’t swaddled in a Canterbury blanket .
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@paremata said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
When did you first hear the phrase “assigned at birth”? It’s only recently escaped the trans community and medical circles and surfaced on articles about trans people in the media etc .
Around '97 I think with a family members birth. Term itself may have been hijacked but it's been around for more than a while.
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I don't think anyone disagrees with protecting female sport. I think the argument is how do we best accommodate those with a medical condition which, from what I've read & been told, isn't as simple as XX and XY.
The IAAF recognise the latter and have done their best to achieve the former. Putting aside any sympathy one has for her, if Semenya doesn't want to go along with the rules, then she doesn't compete.
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@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
Mind always in the gutter Bones!
And no need to call me Jesus bro, seems overkill.
Now you're trying to get me banned
It’s a long queue
Transgender debate, in sport, in general
