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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
The other is a born female
Isn't that it though? Someone incorrectly decided SC is a female because no dick. When in actual fact, they're a bloke. Without a dick.
That is exactly it. Genetalia says she's female. Science says she's not.
Wait a fucking minute. Genitalia isn't science? Testes aren't male genitalia?
Wait a fucking minute yourself. Are you saying she doesn't have female genitalia at all?
Dunno about @Bones but I'm saying that reports say she doesn't.
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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
The other is a born female
Isn't that it though? Someone incorrectly decided SC is a female because no dick. When in actual fact, they're a bloke. Without a dick.
That is exactly it. Genetalia says she's female. Science says she's not.
Wait a fucking minute. Genitalia isn't science? Testes aren't male genitalia?
Wait a fucking minute yourself. Are you saying she doesn't have female genitalia at all?
No.
I consider biology science though, so probably best we don't discuss that bit.
So the conclusion is
- I think she has a vagina, which means that in my view the dr was correct to say she's female
- You think she doesn't really have a vagina, because she has internal testes (whatever that means), which means that she is actually male. Despite having a vagina. And tits.
Lets just leave it there.
Nice try.
I never said what I think.
Tits was a lovely last second addition though.
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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
The other is a born female
Isn't that it though? Someone incorrectly decided SC is a female because no dick. When in actual fact, they're a bloke. Without a dick.
That is exactly it. Genetalia says she's female. Science says she's not.
Wait a fucking minute. Genitalia isn't science? Testes aren't male genitalia?
Wait a fucking minute yourself. Are you saying she doesn't have female genitalia at all?
No.
I consider biology science though, so probably best we don't discuss that bit.
So the conclusion is
- I think she has a vagina, which means that in my view the dr was correct to say she's female
- You think she doesn't really have a vagina, because she has internal testes (whatever that means), which means that she is actually male. Despite having a vagina. And tits.
Lets just leave it there.
Caster doesn't have a vagina. In the same way Caster doesn't have a uterus or ovaries.
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@Bones It doesn't change anything about my over arching point. We had mainly been talking about at birth, where all of us are without tits.
I do genuinely see both sides of the debate. But I also genuinely think that the female traits she has will always hold her back from competing against males. Thus, I'm not quite prepared to call her a "male with a vagina", which I think is the consensus here.
How would I feel if she was competing against my daughter? I may well feel very different, but am trying to look at this from a neutral point of view.
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@antipodean I know, as far your concerned, she's 100% male. That point is coming across loud and clear.
I didn't want to go down the wormhole this far, as I think a lot of my thoughts are perhaps more emotionally based in that I genuinely feel extremely sorry for her.
I'll take a second attempt at just leaving it there.
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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@antipodean I know, as far your concerned, she's 100% male. That point is coming across loud and clear.
That looks suspiciously like assigning me an argument I'm not making; "100% male". I don't see anyone in this thread, least of all me, asserting Caster has external male genitalia. I've been at pains to rely on qualified expertise.
I didn't want to go down the wormhole this far, as I think a lot of my thoughts are perhaps more emotionally based in that I genuinely feel extremely sorry for her.
I have empathy for anyone suffering from DSD. But that doesn't change the point of safeguarding female sport:
So the “decision makers” are aware that athletes affected 5-ARD are male, and that they experience the benefits of male puberty. The requirement to reduce T to typical female levels isn’t discriminatory, since these are males who are asking to compete in the female category. But more significantly, all the relevant scientific evidence shows that reducing male T in adulthood does not undo the physical benefits of male puberty. -
@Bones why are you being combatative? I thought your position was quite clear as you wrote this:
Isn't that it though? Someone incorrectly decided SC is a female because no dick. When in actual fact, they're a bloke. Without a dick
I’m really just quoting you back to you.
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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones why are you being combatative? I thought your position was quite clear as you wrote this:
Isn't that it though? Someone incorrectly decided SC is a female because no dick. When in actual fact, they're a bloke. Without a dick
I’m really just quoting you back to you.
Ok, so to put it back to you. You think SC is a female, because tits?
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@antipodean ok your right, you don’t say she was 100% male.
In my view you’ve implied that with your one sentence answers such as “she’s xy” etc.
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15 minutes in here this morning finds me aching to return to the Shakespeare in Love debate...
I haven't done any research on CS or others, so won't comment on specifics. But I definitely fall into the category of "we have to protect the masses over the rights of an unlucky individual". I feel for those caught up in this, but having internal testes might just have to be one of those things that means that pro (womens) sport isn't an avenue you can pursue. I had the same thing happen to me, when my pro (male) sports career was curtailed at a young age because I was fat and lazy. Sometimes life just deals you a raw deal.
I've also had the experience of watching my daughter get beaten in an athletics event by a bloke - it was only High Jump (thanks Bones), not her favoured event, so I didn't get too upset - but if had been one of her running events and he had prevented her from progressing through the pathways, I'd have been pretty upset.
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@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
Mind always in the gutter Bones!
And no need to call me Jesus bro, seems overkill.
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@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
I chuckled at that too.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
I chuckled at that too.
maybe I'll edit then, if the mind of a respected enforcement officer also went there...
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@voodoo said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@Bones said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@voodoo jesus. You want to be careful when throwing out initials for favoured events I would've thought. But I'm not a dad so....
Mind always in the gutter Bones!
And no need to call me Jesus bro, seems overkill.
Now you're trying to get me banned
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@MajorPom said in Transgender debate, in sport, in general:
@antipodean ok your right, you don’t say she was 100% male.
In my view you’ve implied that with your one sentence answers such as “she’s xy” etc.
Ok, well I can assure you you're inferring what isn't implied. "100% male" seemed to me to be a loaded statement.
Transgender debate, in sport, in general
