All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2
-
-
@Daffy-Jaffy said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
D-Mac seems like a genuinely good bastard doesn't he
-
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
So 2 questions:
- what does that Frizell performance mean for Scooter? Is he on the bench now? Or are we going to do the unthinkable and make a choice between BBBR and SW? I assume Scooter goes to the bench.
IMO Scooter is a bolted on starter. Either way I wouldn’t mind them rotating the other two to keep them fresh for the RWC, I just think the way Scooter has been playing they can’t leave him out. Whether he has a 4, 5 or 6 on his back, he is now playing the tight game at a high level that we need.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
So 2 questions:
- what does that Frizell performance mean for Scooter? Is he on the bench now? Or are we going to do the unthinkable and make a choice between BBBR and SW? I assume Scooter goes to the bench.
IMO Scooter is a bolted on starter. Either way I wouldn’t mind them rotating the other two to keep them fresh for the RWC, I just think the way Scooter has been playing they can’t leave him out. Whether he has a 4, 5 or 6 on his back, he is now playing the tight game at a high level that we need.
See, I don't like this thinking. I reckon with SW and BBBR ageing and playing pretty tight now, on top of Cane being a very tight 7 and Ardie being undersized, Frizells greater speed and ability to break the line is exactly what we need at 6. I would have loved Akira to have kicked on, but lets not start that debate again.
I like SB at lock when he is needed there, but I don't like him at 6 with the locks and loosies that we have
-
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@booboo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse there's always one ...
Good on ya.
I get your point Crazy. And my comment was a little tongue in cheek. But I had visions of the first talkback caller to the ZB sports show having exactly that half empty sentiment.
-
@Crazy-Horse Mate most good tests are won in a dominant stage like the ABs had. It is very seldom I have seen a test between top teams where one team dominates whole game form start to finish. But perhaps I just to positive?
@Dan54
@Crazy-Horse Mate most good tests are won in a dominant stage like the ABs had. It is very seldom I have seen a test between top teams where one team dominates whole game form start to finish. But perhaps I just to positive?There's always one bright spark who's more intelligent than anyone else and you're it.
-
-
@Tim said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
https://twitter.com/nzrugbydatabase/status/1680352767096008705?s=20
Pretty amazing really
-
Havent read the last 10 hrs of posts as got some zzzz's
This is what I want to see next game
Game time for Samipeni , Roigard and Narawa.
No more defensive dinks from the Barretts
Apart from that it's all good.
One last thing, in the big WC games Aaron Smith plays 80 minutes -
@Tim said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
https://twitter.com/nzrugbydatabase/status/1680352767096008705?s=20
Pretty amazing really
@voodoo Fantastic that all 3 play in their right positions and to their full potential. All have made a real difference. You cant ask for more than that. Awesome. Praise.
-
@Tim looks like SB is telling Beaudy that it is ok to kick it long sometimes
-
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
So 2 questions:
-
what does that Frizell performance mean for Scooter? Is he on the bench now? Or are we going to do the unthinkable and make a choice between BBBR and SW? I assume Scooter goes to the bench.
-
what does the last 2 weeks mean for DMac? I suspect that in the selectors eyes, the collective performances of WJ and BB in particular will have them as incumbents to start at 14/15, and they might see WJ as 15 cover and BB as 10 cover. Could be a 2-back bench with ALB and [insert a non-ginger HB here], or if we take a 3rd, could be a Narawa type (though probably Clarke knowing the reluctance to switch up). I’d love it to be Stevenson but that’s not happening. I’m any case, his chance of being in the 23 slipped a little last night I think.
While watching RM I was thinking about DM and wondering how he would be playing if it was him at 10 last night. Different opposition and all that, but there was quite a difference in how the backline operated last night compared to how they went against Argentina. I think I only noticed RI on Jordie's shoulder once last night, and that was in the second half. Whereas it was a regular thing against the Argies. Also it seemed DM was the first receiver more often than RM was last night where BB, and to a lesser extent JB, did that job a fair bit.
A result of different opposition or different playing styles of the 10s? Probably a mixture of both.
I need to rewatch the test but the biggest thing I took from it is how dependent we are on Will Jordan being Will Jordan.
Last week the attack structure looked much different, we saw Mo’unga on the loop and at second receiver a lot more. As you say, different opposition which is why it is frustrating to not see Dmac have a few minutes out there.
I’m very pleased with the win, but I’m not convinced that our game drivers did enough to get that win. I need to rewatch it because it looks like we are effective when we can play straight in the forwards around the ruck to get go forward and take advantage of Smith’s passing.
On the contestables @Booboo I’ve seen the podcast with Hall etc explaining why they are effective and I understand multiple reasons to use them (including moving around the backfield). However, the timing of when to use them has to be a consideration and we have a need to use the long boot (using Jordie got shelved for some reason, powder on ice?).
In both halves we had the opportunity to try to get territory with three minutes left, and each time BB chose to put up a contestable. Each time we didn’t secure nor interrupt and gave up chances for or actual points. On a cost benefit ratio I cant see why that is the right tactic. Its the first question I’d like to ask the coaches.
@gt12 said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
So 2 questions:
-
what does that Frizell performance mean for Scooter? Is he on the bench now? Or are we going to do the unthinkable and make a choice between BBBR and SW? I assume Scooter goes to the bench.
-
what does the last 2 weeks mean for DMac? I suspect that in the selectors eyes, the collective performances of WJ and BB in particular will have them as incumbents to start at 14/15, and they might see WJ as 15 cover and BB as 10 cover. Could be a 2-back bench with ALB and [insert a non-ginger HB here], or if we take a 3rd, could be a Narawa type (though probably Clarke knowing the reluctance to switch up). I’d love it to be Stevenson but that’s not happening. I’m any case, his chance of being in the 23 slipped a little last night I think.
While watching RM I was thinking about DM and wondering how he would be playing if it was him at 10 last night. Different opposition and all that, but there was quite a difference in how the backline operated last night compared to how they went against Argentina. I think I only noticed RI on Jordie's shoulder once last night, and that was in the second half. Whereas it was a regular thing against the Argies. Also it seemed DM was the first receiver more often than RM was last night where BB, and to a lesser extent JB, did that job a fair bit.
A result of different opposition or different playing styles of the 10s? Probably a mixture of both.
I need to rewatch the test but the biggest thing I took from it is how dependent we are on Will Jordan being Will Jordan.
Last week the attack structure looked much different, we saw Mo’unga on the loop and at second receiver a lot more. As you say, different opposition which is why it is frustrating to not see Dmac have a few minutes out there.
I’m very pleased with the win, but I’m not convinced that our game drivers did enough to get that win. I need to rewatch it because it looks like we are effective when we can play straight in the forwards around the ruck to get go forward and take advantage of Smith’s passing.
On the contestables @Booboo I’ve seen the podcast with Hall etc explaining why they are effective and I understand multiple reasons to use them (including moving around the backfield). However, the timing of when to use them has to be a consideration and we have a need to use the long boot (using Jordie got shelved for some reason, powder on ice?).
In both halves we had the opportunity to try to get territory with three minutes left, and each time BB chose to put up a contestable. Each time we didn’t secure nor interrupt and gave up chances for or actual points. On a cost benefit ratio I cant see why that is the right tactic. Its the first question I’d like to ask the coaches.
Good points, but I think we playing the contestable and backing our defence. I understand the tactic, because a; you must make sure you don't get caught behind advatnage line, and even going to rucks etc, after a few paheses you will get caught there. b; Do not kick for touch, don't give the Boks ball off lineout etc?
Just the way I see it. -
-
A few thoughts after reading 1000+ posts.
(1) Ardie's lack of physicality with the ball was noticeable. Can we rely on Frizell to do that every test?
(2) I'm still not confident in Christie. Sure he made a good defensive play, but that was only making up for getting caught ruck watching (which he later did again leading to Smith's try). IMO he is too indecisive if not given ball on the front foot. I'd really like a more robust halfback (i.e., Roigard) to be given a chance to compare.
(3) The bench, and its impact, is still a work in progress, perhaps hindered by injuries/suspension of some players. de Groot is only good for about 50 mins before he is gassed. He was subbed 10 mins later. I can understand if Foster and co were reluctant to bring on Williams too early in this instance but not at the RWC. Ironically, Lomax can go for longer but is often subbed first.
(4) If Beauden is considered an option at 1st 5 within the match-day 23 he needs to have some time there vs Australia to prove it. There are better options in the 22 and 23 jerseys than played last night that can provide impact and cover.
-
Can I just say, I not keen on tv commentators saying the ABs have set down a marker for WC etc. I just think we had a bloody good win against the Boks and all the rest are sperate tests.
I know I know, I probably just sounding like a grumpy old bugger, but regardless.
-
A few thoughts after reading 1000+ posts.
(1) Ardie's lack of physicality with the ball was noticeable. Can we rely on Frizell to do that every test?
(2) I'm still not confident in Christie. Sure he made a good defensive play, but that was only making up for getting caught ruck watching (which he later did again leading to Smith's try). IMO he is too indecisive if not given ball on the front foot. I'd really like a more robust halfback (i.e., Roigard) to be given a chance to compare.
(3) The bench, and its impact, is still a work in progress, perhaps hindered by injuries/suspension of some players. de Groot is only good for about 50 mins before he is gassed. He was subbed 10 mins later. I can understand if Foster and co were reluctant to bring on Williams too early in this instance but not at the RWC. Ironically, Lomax can go for longer but is often subbed first.
(4) If Beauden is considered an option at 1st 5 within the match-day 23 he needs to have some time there vs Australia to prove it. There are better options in the 22 and 23 jerseys than played last night that can provide impact and cover.
-
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
My big worry is that we don’t have the depth of other contenders, especially in the pack and key positions like 9.
We really can’t afford to lose too many of our top players to injury, but of course, that is a lottery.
I reckon we're probably OK in the pack. Guys who didn't play tonight...
Moody, Coles, Newell/Tuúngafasi, Whitelock, Lord, Ioane, Blackadder, Jacobsen.
Not all of those guys would be the first choice replacement and there will be a few who think Moody is yesterday's man, but he was going very well for the Crusaders before he got injured.
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Halfback, the midfield and, maybe a bit strangely, fullback are the positions that concern me re. depth.
I'm a lot more comfortable about midfield than last year. Reiko now looks like a complete 13 rather than a wing transitioning to centre, Jordie is solid as and we have ALB. Injuries are the curse though.
Plenty of talent at 15, just need to sort out where WJ is best placed, try DMac and work on the combinations/game-plan.
-
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
So 2 questions:
- what does that Frizell performance mean for Scooter? Is he on the bench now? Or are we going to do the unthinkable and make a choice between BBBR and SW? I assume Scooter goes to the bench.
IMO Scooter is a bolted on starter. Either way I wouldn’t mind them rotating the other two to keep them fresh for the RWC, I just think the way Scooter has been playing they can’t leave him out. Whether he has a 4, 5 or 6 on his back, he is now playing the tight game at a high level that we need.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Whether he has a 4, 5 or 6 on his back, he is now playing the tight game at a high level that we need.
I can't be the only thinking he reminds me of Brad Thorn
-
@voodoo I've given you a slightly mixed answer.
I don't think Frizz is necessarily locked into the 6 jumper for the big games at RWC. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the preferred plan is still ScottB at 6. Shannon has given them another option to think about.
On DMac, I've never thought he's been much of a chance to supplant Richie this year, even though there's not that much to choose between them. He's possibly more of a chance to supplant Beaudy at fullback, but even then, I think not.
A bench of Christie/Roigard, DMac and ALB would cover most options though.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo I've given you a slightly mixed answer.
I don't think Frizz is necessarily locked into the 6 jumper for the big games at RWC. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the preferred plan is still ScottB at 6. Shannon has given them another option to think about.
On DMac, I've never thought he's been much of a chance to supplant Richie this year, even though there's not that much to choose between them. He's possibly more of a chance to supplant Beaudy at fullback, but even then, I think not.
A bench of Christie/Roigard, DMac and ALB would cover most options though.
BBBR and SW to start at lock, SB at 6
Sub one of the locks, put SB in the engine room and Friz to 6
-
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@gt12 at least we are actually contesting the contestables now eh? For so long we were putting up those same short high kicks then barely even chasing them
️Did you notice though, when we were being smothered and pushed back, we were just that little bit less able to contest as well as we did earlier?
That was the point where we should have put the contestable bombs away
The problem being though, we were going nowhere at a rate of knots, even going backwards. They had no idea what else to do. If only we had someone with a raking boot.
BB and JB can kick a long way. We just never utilised them
Jordie had a huge punt down the middle in the first half. Was pleased as punch with that.
There were a few very big punts last night.
I still think the contestable kick is all about unsettling the opposition. We recovered a number last night with some Howlett / Bender like chasing from our outside backs and even Mo’unga on two occasions.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@gt12 at least we are actually contesting the contestables now eh? For so long we were putting up those same short high kicks then barely even chasing them
️Did you notice though, when we were being smothered and pushed back, we were just that little bit less able to contest as well as we did earlier?
That was the point where we should have put the contestable bombs away
The problem being though, we were going nowhere at a rate of knots, even going backwards. They had no idea what else to do. If only we had someone with a raking boot.
BB and JB can kick a long way. We just never utilised them
Jordie had a huge punt down the middle in the first half. Was pleased as punch with that.
There were a few very big punts last night.
I still think the contestable kick is all about unsettling the opposition. We recovered a number last night with some Howlett / Bender like chasing from our outside backs and even Mo’unga on two occasions.
It's a great tactic. Just needs to be used more judiciously
-
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@gt12 at least we are actually contesting the contestables now eh? For so long we were putting up those same short high kicks then barely even chasing them
️Did you notice though, when we were being smothered and pushed back, we were just that little bit less able to contest as well as we did earlier?
That was the point where we should have put the contestable bombs away
The problem being though, we were going nowhere at a rate of knots, even going backwards. They had no idea what else to do. If only we had someone with a raking boot.
BB and JB can kick a long way. We just never utilised them
Jordie had a huge punt down the middle in the first half. Was pleased as punch with that.
There were a few very big punts last night.
I still think the contestable kick is all about unsettling the opposition. We recovered a number last night with some Howlett / Bender like chasing from our outside backs and even Mo’unga on two occasions.
It's a great tactic. Just needs to be used more judiciously
@canefan said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
It's a great tactic. Just needs to be used more judiciously
Call me old fashioned but I've got great memories of Foxy's raking wipers kicks into the corners. Why not?
