AB RWC Squad
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@Steve said in AB RWC Squad:
@Steve said in AB RWC Squad:
If Caleb Clark was playing like prime Jonah Lomu you’d make the concession for him.
But he isn’t playing any better than the others currently .
Never played better than the others in his previous body of work either.
Only plays one position.
I don’t see the point of his selection at all.
Unless it’s for pure beef against the Irish and French. Fight fire with fire.
Only watched the game the once live but thought in the first bledisloe when he came on he was doing a lot of in close work , looking for ball close to the ruck, pick and driving with the forwards etc
I’m guessing it’s still between him and leister to get that role
Still feels like one too many though , even allowing for Jordan potentially needing to play some fb
Have havilli and leister played together in midfield?
Thinking of pool games.@kiwiinmelb said in AB RWC Squad:
@Steve said in AB RWC Squad:
@Steve said in AB RWC Squad:
If Caleb Clark was playing like prime Jonah Lomu you’d make the concession for him.
But he isn’t playing any better than the others currently .
Never played better than the others in his previous body of work either.
Only plays one position.
I don’t see the point of his selection at all.
Only watched the game the once live but thought in the first bledisloe when he came on he was doing a lot of in close work , looking for ball close to the ruck, pick and driving with the forwards etc
I’m guessing it’s still between him and leister to get that role
Still feels like one too many though , even allowing for Jordan potentially needing to play some fb
Have havilli and leister played together in midfield?
Thinking of pool games.Clarke looked good amongst their forwards, he and Leicester don't look overpowered at all, I just think Clarke isn't the full package just yet, hope I'm proven wrong as he seems a good guy and eager to learn.
Given ongoing injuries to our older locks plus Cane and Jacobson though I wish they had one more hardened forward in there. -
Havili and a wing? Edit: not sure though as Ennor is a 13/wing so probably Leicester would be left out not DH as like for like.
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In a world where Blackadder and Ennor were fit, do we think they would have gone to the World Cup? And if so, who would have missed out?
@frugby said in AB RWC Squad:
In a world where Blackadder and Ennor were fit, do we think they would have gone to the World Cup? And if so, who would have missed out?
Probably both
Jacobson is the guy that can cover all three loosie positions. He would be the obvious one for Blackadder to replace as they do the same role
Ennor the centre/wing (according to AB selectors) would probably be in for the wing/centre LF
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In the press conference Foster said that they don't see LF as a starting centre but someone who can come off the bench to play there. That might mean DMac/LF as an alternative in the 22 and 23 jerseys in some games, particularly if Jordan starts at fullback.
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@Steve said in AB RWC Squad:
@Steve said in AB RWC Squad:
If Caleb Clark was playing like prime Jonah Lomu you’d make the concession for him.
But he isn’t playing any better than the others currently .
Never played better than the others in his previous body of work either.
Only plays one position.
I don’t see the point of his selection at all.
Unless it’s for pure beef against the Irish and French. Fight fire with fire.
Only watched the game the once live but thought in the first bledisloe when he came on he was doing a lot of in close work , looking for ball close to the ruck, pick and driving with the forwards etc
I’m guessing it’s still between him and leister to get that role
Still feels like one too many though , even allowing for Jordan potentially needing to play some fb
Have havilli and leister played together in midfield?
Thinking of pool games.@kiwiinmelb said in AB RWC Squad:
Have havilli and leister played together in midfield?
Remember how the Chiefs beat the Crusaders 21 -24 in Christchurch in 2022? Two weeks later, Razor had a trick up his sleeve when the Crusaders made the return visit to Hamilton: a midfield of Havili and Fainga'anuku. LF looked like a angry battering ram who kept pounding the Chiefs defence over and over again. That combo was very effective in that game, won by the Crusaders, but I can't remember Razor using it again.
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I remember an interview with Ryan a while back and he spoke glowingly about Blackadder , that’s what led me to believe he’s right in the frame if he gets himself fit .
On the fringe utility types, I think it’s easy to dismiss their importance to the squad , i remember the maligned toeava starting in a different position in each game in pool play in 11 . Important one being when the fullbacks mils and dagg both had niggles .
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@frugby said in AB RWC Squad:
In a world where Blackadder and Ennor were fit, do we think they would have gone to the World Cup? And if so, who would have missed out?
Probably both
Jacobson is the guy that can cover all three loosie positions. He would be the obvious one for Blackadder to replace as they do the same role
Ennor the centre/wing (according to AB selectors) would probably be in for the wing/centre LF
@Duluth said in AB RWC Squad:
Ennor the centre/wing (according to AB selectors) would probably be in for the wing/centre LF
Ennor has played more on the right wing than the left wing. I think if Ennor had made the squad, Narawa would have missed out, not LF.
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There are some pretty unlikely scenarios being thrown about. We have to operate with a smaller squad and yes the outside back contingency seems like overkill. But were they ever going to select 5 locks regardless? Nope. Hey we only took 3 locks to 2015!
If two number 8’s go down it’s not like we were ever picking another one there regardless of the outside backs.
Christie getting time in the RC / Bledisloe sealed his ticket. For me it was probably a Roigard v Weber close call.
Finau - touch and go really. Not too dissimilar to past RWC selection close calls
@ACT-Crusader said in AB RWC Squad:
There are some pretty unlikely scenarios being thrown about. We have to operate with a smaller squad and yes the outside back contingency seems like overkill. But were they ever going to select 5 locks regardless? Nope. Hey we only took 3 locks to 2015!
i get this, but
As it stands, with Retallick out for 2 or 3 games, we have 3 locks and 5 loosies. You need a combination of 7 of these for every match. It just means that we're putting a lot of load on the first stringers early in the tournament.
It does help that the two hardest pool games are pretty early, and it's likely the top side plays them anyway. 1 more injury and you are out of options. two and you are out of players, not matter what their positions are.
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@Nepia said in AB RWC Squad:
No Finau! FFS.
Christie.
Havilli.
🤮
Ah well, time to shut off my phone and hopefully watch a good movie over the Ta$man.
Drama queens a plenty on this forum. You’d think these guys are disabled cripples. Sure Christie is no world-beater but he’s hardly dreadful. I don’t think Webber is so amazingly good that it’s a shocking decision. And I don’t think ennor is so incredible that Havili is lucky. Besides ennor is probably injured. As for finau he had an anonymous first half then showed up better against a tiring Aussie pack.
@Billy-Tell said in AB RWC Squad:
@Nepia said in AB RWC Squad:
No Finau! FFS.
Christie.
Havilli.
🤮
Ah well, time to shut off my phone and hopefully watch a good movie over the Ta$man.
Drama queens a plenty on this forum. You’d think these guys are disabled cripples. Sure Christie is no world-beater but he’s hardly dreadful. I don’t think Webber is so amazingly good that it’s a shocking decision. And I don’t think ennor is so incredible that Havili is lucky. Besides ennor is probably injured. As for finau he had an anonymous first half then showed up better against a tiring Aussie pack.
Quite a dramatic knight in shining armour response to another poster's preference (well non preference) of players. So yes, I agree, drama queens a plenty on this forum.
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I think it is pretty clear that because of the week long breaks, the selectors were more worried about having a full backline to train against than having extra depth in the forwards in the case of emergency...
The coaches won't say it, but if we lose 2 of Retallick, Whitelock and Barrett we are finished anyway - as would most countries. I thought they may have taken six loose forwards, but the reasoning from Foster is fair. One of the outside backs (Likely Clarke or Fainga'anuku) is likely to barely see the field I'd think.
Mapping it out, say this is the 23 v France:
- de Groot
- Taylor
- Lomax
- Whitelock
- S Barrett
- Frizell
- Cane
- Savea
- Smith
- Mo'unga
- Telea
- J Barrett
- Ioane
- Jordan
- B Barrett
- Taukei'aho
- Tu'ungafasi
- Newell
- Va'ai
- Papalii
- Roigard (?)
- Lienert-Brown
- Clarke/Fainga'anuku
They'll probably work it so most of these guys only start 1 other pool game I'd think? They might just about clear the deck v Namibia (Similar team to the one that played the Aussies last weekend) then I think v Italy it'll be dependent on whether we beat France. If we lose the first game, they'll probably want to make sure we avoid any potential banana skin, so it'll be strong, before rotating out v Uruguay.
I think in an ideal world, they'd want to keep most of the starting pack on ice for the two weeks following France before letting them loose on Uruguay. They won't want too many of them to have a week off heading into the quarters, so I think you could just about see the top side v Uruguay... if you can go to a bookmaker, I think a nudge at the ABs breaking the record for biggest winning margin is well and truly on.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB RWC Squad:
There are some pretty unlikely scenarios being thrown about. We have to operate with a smaller squad and yes the outside back contingency seems like overkill. But were they ever going to select 5 locks regardless? Nope. Hey we only took 3 locks to 2015!
i get this, but
As it stands, with Retallick out for 2 or 3 games, we have 3 locks and 5 loosies. You need a combination of 7 of these for every match. It just means that we're putting a lot of load on the first stringers early in the tournament.
It does help that the two hardest pool games are pretty early, and it's likely the top side plays them anyway. 1 more injury and you are out of options. two and you are out of players, not matter what their positions are.
@mariner4life there’s the option to play Frizell at lock if need be. Here’s my take on how they can manage the back 5.
France
4- Whitelock
5- Scooter
6- Frizell
7- Cane
8- Savea19- Vaa’i
20- Papali’iNamibia
4- Vaa’i
5- Scooter
6- Jacobson
7- Papali’i
8- Savea19- Whitelock
20- CaneItaly
4- Retallick
5- Scooter
6- Frizell
7- Cane
8- Savea19- Vaa’i
20- Papali’iUruguay
4- Whitelock
5- Retallick
6- Frizell
7- Papali’i
8- Jacobson19- Vaa’i
20- Cane -
@mariner4life there’s the option to play Frizell at lock if need be. Here’s my take on how they can manage the back 5.
France
4- Whitelock
5- Scooter
6- Frizell
7- Cane
8- Savea19- Vaa’i
20- Papali’iNamibia
4- Vaa’i
5- Scooter
6- Jacobson
7- Papali’i
8- Savea19- Whitelock
20- CaneItaly
4- Retallick
5- Scooter
6- Frizell
7- Cane
8- Savea19- Vaa’i
20- Papali’iUruguay
4- Whitelock
5- Retallick
6- Frizell
7- Papali’i
8- Jacobson19- Vaa’i
20- Cane@ACT-Crusader said in AB RWC Squad:
@mariner4life there’s the option to play Frizell at lock if need be. Here’s my take on how they can manage the back 5.
France
4- Whitelock
5- Scooter
6- Frizell
7- Cane
8- Savea19- Vaa’i
20- Papali’iNamibia
4- Vaa’i
5- Scooter
6- Jacobson
7- Papali’i
8- Savea19- Whitelock
20- CaneItaly
4- Retallick
5- Scooter
6- Frizell
7- Cane
8- Savea19- Vaa’i
20- Papali’iUruguay
4- Whitelock
5- Retallick
6- Frizell
7- Papali’i
8- Jacobson19- Vaa’i
20- CaneNot a million miles off... here is my guess:
France
I agree
- Whitelock
- S Barrett
- Frizell
- Cane
- Savea
19 Vaa'i
20 PapaliiNambia
- Vaa'i
- S Barrett
- Jacobson
- Papalii
- Savea
19 Frizell
20 CaneItaly
Depends a bit on how we went v France.
If we lost it will be:
- Whitelock
- S Barrett
- Frizell
- Cane
- Savea
19 Retallick
20 PapaliiIf we won it will be:
- Vaa'i
- Whitelock
- Frizell
- Cane
- Jacobson
19 Retallick
20 SaveaUruguay
Conceivably if things went tits up, we could be allover red rover by this stage. I'm going to assume we are qualified for the next round
- Barrett
- Retallick
- Papalii
- Cane
- Savea
19 Vaa'i
20 Frizell -
@mariner4life there’s the option to play Frizell at lock if need be. Here’s my take on how they can manage the back 5.
France
4- Whitelock
5- Scooter
6- Frizell
7- Cane
8- Savea19- Vaa’i
20- Papali’iNamibia
4- Vaa’i
5- Scooter
6- Jacobson
7- Papali’i
8- Savea19- Whitelock
20- CaneItaly
4- Retallick
5- Scooter
6- Frizell
7- Cane
8- Savea19- Vaa’i
20- Papali’iUruguay
4- Whitelock
5- Retallick
6- Frizell
7- Papali’i
8- Jacobson19- Vaa’i
20- Cane@ACT-Crusader I wouldn't be surprised to see Vaa'i used at 6 in one of the lesser pool games. Ryan and Foster both mentioned that two of the locks can also play 6 to justify selecting one less loose forward.
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@ACT-Crusader I wouldn't be surprised to see Vaa'i used at 6 in one of the lesser pool games. Ryan and Foster both mentioned that two of the locks can also play 6 to justify selecting one less loose forward.
@Bovidae I thought about this, but I doubt he starts there in any game.
- Will be in 19 v France so could conceivably replace Frizell but unlikely
- Will start v Nambia at lock
- Will either start at lock v Italy, or potentially be out the 23 if we need to win the game
- Last game v Uruguay... maybe? I think it is unlikely to happen though unless there are injuries.
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@Machpants said in AB RWC Squad:
Whereas now we have 3 locks and 5 loosies, fucking Muppet
Don't we have 4 - Sam, BBBR (assuming he gets over his injury) , Scooter & Vai'i?
RWC, the ideal place for excitements. Did a lot of that in the run up to the quarters in 07
Fair point, they have spent much of the last 12 months sorting out the top 15 & 23 and haven't had much chance to tweak things around the edges.
@Victor-Meldrew said in AB RWC Squad:
@Machpants said in AB RWC Squad:
Whereas now we have 3 locks and 5 loosies, fucking Muppet
Don't we have 4 - Sam, BBBR (assuming he gets over his injury) , Scooter & Vai'i?
RWC, the ideal place for excitements. Did a lot of that in the run up to the quarters in 07
Fair point, they have spent much of the last 12 months sorting out the top 15 & 23 and haven't had much chance to tweak things around the edges.
BBBR is in the squad but he can't play, so we have 3 locks. Until/if he gets fit we have 3 which is stupid. What if he takes longer to recover?
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Is there anything that would’ve prevented them from naming another lock like lord , and as soon as Brodie is right to go , lord picks up an injury at training and you swap them over ?
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB RWC Squad:
There are some pretty unlikely scenarios being thrown about. We have to operate with a smaller squad and yes the outside back contingency seems like overkill. But were they ever going to select 5 locks regardless? Nope. Hey we only took 3 locks to 2015!
i get this, but
As it stands, with Retallick out for 2 or 3 games, we have 3 locks and 5 loosies. You need a combination of 7 of these for every match. It just means that we're putting a lot of load on the first stringers early in the tournament.
It does help that the two hardest pool games are pretty early, and it's likely the top side plays them anyway. 1 more injury and you are out of options. two and you are out of players, not matter what their positions are.
@mariner4life said in AB RWC Squad:
@ACT-Crusader said in AB RWC Squad:
There are some pretty unlikely scenarios being thrown about. We have to operate with a smaller squad and yes the outside back contingency seems like overkill. But were they ever going to select 5 locks regardless? Nope. Hey we only took 3 locks to 2015!
i get this, but
As it stands, with Retallick out for 2 or 3 games, we have 3 locks and 5 loosies. You need a combination of 7 of these for every match. It just means that we're putting a lot of load on the first stringers early in the tournament.
It does help that the two hardest pool games are pretty early, and it's likely the top side plays them anyway. 1 more injury and you are out of options. two and you are out of players, not matter what their positions are.
I think the only significant problem is if one of the indispensable locks (or Frizell) gets a short run injury against South Africa. Then we'd go into the game against France with two big guys having to play 80 minutes and no proper injury cover.
Otherwise, we can surely manage short-handed vs the minnows and Italy - and Retallick hopefully back by then anyway.
But, why take the risk? The fifth wing will maximum play vs Namibia and Uruguay.
As much as anything it's the lack of logic that annoys me. I just can't see how you'd think this balance was the best idea (short of Will Jordan and a wing friend really are going by ship and they expect them to be stuck in Suez for some considerable time)!
