All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham
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I can visualise some unsung hero changing the narrative by luck rather than design, thrust into the piece due to injury or suspension. A Roigard or DMAC type getting loads of minutes due to unforeseen circumstances.
I think the Allblacks are going to belt some big team, either France up first or SA/IRE in the quarters, but can't see them putting it together over consecutive weeks.
Its going to be ref heavy, TMO heavy, score board ticking in 3's type Rugby.
Playing rippa rugby in your own 22 in Autumn on NH pitches doesn't look like its going to work 6 weeks in a row.
The team is a raking punt light both at 10 and 15.
No pressure valve being offered from 9 either bar the potential of Roigards left boot off the bench.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
This game wouldn't even be played if there wasn't a RWC.
Bollocks.
Every other team is playing warm-up games. Many are playing several. Yet you think we should go into the RWC absolutely cold? If we had gone in cold, this performance would have been against France.
I've stayed off commenting on the Fern this year because I've ridden the Foster train before, and I am well aware that this is exactly what his teams do. Always have.
The bad parts of that game were pure Foster. Back to poor exits. Back to defensive bombs. Back to poor discipline. Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad. Still the game plan from 2005, where we think we can run other sides off their feet. Still "clever" selections like making sure our best hooker gets almost no game time, loses his mojo, and is then terrible when you finally let him get onto the field.
After four years of this bullshit, I can't believe some of you think Foster is not the main culprit. How many terrible records does he have to break before you realise that he is a dreadful coach? You just watched that dreck, and think, "you know what, I'll stick up for him".
And for those of you who think that the All Blacks have had a wake-up call and won't be this bad again, well I have news for you. We will never be this bad again -- it was, after all our biggest loss ever -- but Foster is capable of pretty much anything, when it comes to bad.
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad.
This is his biggest weakness in my opinion.
In the past, rightly or wrongly, other managers made big calls with some big players. Mitchell dropped Cullen while he still had something to offer, Nonu got dropped for the 2007 RWC, Dagg missed out in 2015, Ben Smith and Cane dropped for the semi in 2019.
Foster has been in the setup for so long that it seems he has a cadre of undroppable players. Cane and Beaudy come to mind immediately. At times during his tenure they patently did not deserve their place on the field on merit. Who is the biggest name on his kill sheet? Akira Ioane? Sotutu?
They are low hanging fruit.
As I have said many times on this forum.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back. Or at least it should be for a team that prides itself on legacy and winning records.
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There was one Bok exit in thr 2nd half that had me in tears. They swung right and wipers kicked out at around our 40. No nonsense, high effect. 22 to our 40, no fuss.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
There was one Bok exit in thr 2nd half that had me in tears. They swung right and wipers kicked out at around our 40. No nonsense, high effect. 22 to our 40, no fuss.
Yep, I noticed that, they were very effective at exits in Mt Smart also, the goal should always be the halfway line, anything less than that just puts you back under pressure.
The fact we got a penalty inside our 22 and the touch finder barely went past the 22 highlights this issue.
It is odd as we have a big boot at 12 that should be able to clear better. Don't Ireland utilise Lowe a lot? Teams seem to have worked this out, no idea why we persist with RM and BB who seem to struggle with this a lot.
It really does make the CC selection very odd as you really want a winger who is great under the high ball, has a big punt, good on D and can finish when needed.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
There was one Bok exit in thr 2nd half that had me in tears. They swung right and wipers kicked out at around our 40. No nonsense, high effect. 22 to our 40, no fuss.
Yep, I noticed that, they were very effective at exits in Mt Smart also, the goal should always be the halfway line, anything less than that just puts you back under pressure.
The fact we got a penalty inside our 22 and the touch finder barely went past the 22 highlights this issue.
It is odd as we have a big boot at 12 that should be able to clear better. Don't Ireland utilise Lowe a lot? Teams seem to have worked this out, no idea why we persist with RM and BB who seem to struggle with this a lot.
It really does make the CC selection very odd as you really want a winger who is great under the high ball, has a big punt, good on D and can finish when needed.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
There was one Bok exit in thr 2nd half that had me in tears. They swung right and wipers kicked out at around our 40. No nonsense, high effect. 22 to our 40, no fuss.
Yep, I noticed that, they were very effective at exits in Mt Smart also, the goal should always be the halfway line, anything less than that just puts you back under pressure.
The fact we got a penalty inside our 22 and the touch finder barely went past the 22 highlights this issue.
It is odd as we have a big boot at 12 that should be able to clear better. Don't Ireland utilise Lowe a lot? Teams seem to have worked this out, no idea why we persist with RM and BB who seem to struggle with this a lot.
It really does make the CC selection very odd as you really want a winger who is great under the high ball, has a big punt, good on D and can finish when needed.
And based on Telea's cameos thus far, Clarke looks completely and utterly redundant in the squad.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
There was one Bok exit in thr 2nd half that had me in tears. They swung right and wipers kicked out at around our 40. No nonsense, high effect. 22 to our 40, no fuss.
Yep, I noticed that, they were very effective at exits in Mt Smart also, the goal should always be the halfway line, anything less than that just puts you back under pressure.
The fact we got a penalty inside our 22 and the touch finder barely went past the 22 highlights this issue.
It is odd as we have a big boot at 12 that should be able to clear better. Don't Ireland utilise Lowe a lot? Teams seem to have worked this out, no idea why we persist with RM and BB who seem to struggle with this a lot.
It really does make the CC selection very odd as you really want a winger who is great under the high ball, has a big punt, good on D and can finish when needed.
And based on Telea's cameos thus far, Clarke looks completely and utterly redundant in the squad.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad.
This is his biggest weakness in my opinion.
In the past, rightly or wrongly, other managers made big calls with some big players. Mitchell dropped Cullen while he still had something to offer, Nonu got dropped for the 2007 RWC, Dagg missed out in 2015, Ben Smith and Cane dropped for the semi in 2019.
Foster has been in the setup for so long that it seems he has a cadre of undroppable players. Cane and Beaudy come to mind immediately. At times during his tenure they patently did not deserve their place on the field on merit. Who is the biggest name on his kill sheet? Akira Ioane? Sotutu?
They are low hanging fruit.
As I have said many times on this forum.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back. Or at least it should be for a team that prides itself on legacy and winning records.
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad.
This is his biggest weakness in my opinion.
In the past, rightly or wrongly, other managers made big calls with some big players. Mitchell dropped Cullen while he still had something to offer, Nonu got dropped for the 2007 RWC, Dagg missed out in 2015, Ben Smith and Cane dropped for the semi in 2019.
Foster has been in the setup for so long that it seems he has a cadre of undroppable players. Cane and Beaudy come to mind immediately. At times during his tenure they patently did not deserve their place on the field on merit. Who is the biggest name on his kill sheet? Akira Ioane? Sotutu?
They are low hanging fruit.
As I have said many times on this forum.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back. Or at least it should be for a team that prides itself on legacy and winning records.
Beaudy has 112 caps now, of which id say the last 30 or so are completely forgettable in comparison to his first 70 odd.
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@Steve he’s ahead of Narawa based on previous selections. Plus Narawa has struggled to get over his niggle
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Steve he’s ahead of Narawa based on previous selections. Plus Narawa has struggled to get over his niggle
Does Clarke cover 14?
Thought Narawa was primarily 14/15.
Clarke 11 and centre at an absolute straw clutch?
Open to correction on both.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Steve he’s ahead of Narawa based on previous selections. Plus Narawa has struggled to get over his niggle
Does Clarke cover 14?
Thought Narawa was primarily 14/15.
Clarke 11 and centre at an absolute straw clutch?
Open to correction on both.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
And he can't own up when his team puts what is objectively the worst performance ever in black
Utter fucking nonsense.
So a28 point loss isn't objectively the worst ever? Carry on in your dream world. He at no point in the interview admits anything but good learnings. Not 'we didn't prepare well enough' nor 'the tactics weren't quite right' doing shitty little kicks in our 22.Just we will learn. Except they don't and haven't over the last 6 odd years
Losing to Munster 12-0 in 78 is the worst ever…
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
And he can't own up when his team puts what is objectively the worst performance ever in black
Utter fucking nonsense.
So a28 point loss isn't objectively the worst ever? Carry on in your dream world. He at no point in the interview admits anything but good learnings. Not 'we didn't prepare well enough' nor 'the tactics weren't quite right' doing shitty little kicks in our 22.Just we will learn. Except they don't and haven't over the last 6 odd years
Losing to Munster 12-0 in 78 is the worst ever…
No it's not, I well remember a real spanking against Sydney 17 - 40 at Penrith in 1992 that was the ultimate pits. That's the same year we had an unbeaten tour of Sth Africa!
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
We're finding plenty of "reasons" for the loss huh?
I think it has been mentioned by many that we simply weren't very good (at all). That might be one of many reasons but it is surely an important one.
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It’s irrelevant because Telea covers both sides and Narawa is so far down the peaking order of fullback cover
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
It’s irrelevant because Telea covers both sides and Narawa is so far down the peaking order of fullback cover
Probably, but Narawa has a very good boot. I'd like to see more of it at test level but he might make a fine backup 15.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
It’s irrelevant because Telea covers both sides and Narawa is so far down the peaking order of fullback cover
Probably, but Narawa has a very good boot. I'd like to see more of it at test level but he might make a fine backup 15.
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Sure but we are talking about the current peaking order according to the selectors. A lot of people seems certain that Clarke is the 5th winger. I don't think the selections to date back that up
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Sure but we are talking about the current peaking order according to the selectors. A lot of people seems certain that Clarke is the 5th winger. I don't think the selections to date back that up
Yes, agree with that.
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@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad.
This is his biggest weakness in my opinion.
In the past, rightly or wrongly, other managers made big calls with some big players. Mitchell dropped Cullen while he still had something to offer, Nonu got dropped for the 2007 RWC, Dagg missed out in 2015, Ben Smith and Cane dropped for the semi in 2019.
Foster has been in the setup for so long that it seems he has a cadre of undroppable players. Cane and Beaudy come to mind immediately. At times during his tenure they patently did not deserve their place on the field on merit. Who is the biggest name on his kill sheet? Akira Ioane? Sotutu?
They are low hanging fruit.
As I have said many times on this forum.
The crest on the front is bigger than any name on the back. Or at least it should be for a team that prides itself on legacy and winning records.
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Still never dropping players, ever, no matter how bad.
This is his biggest weakness in my opinion.
In the past, rightly or wrongly, other managers made big calls with some big players. Mitchell dropped Cullen while he still had something to offer, Nonu got dropped for the 2007 RWC, Dagg missed out in 2015, Ben Smith and Cane dropped for the semi in 2019.
Could not agree more. Refusal to change captains when it's clear Cane is a poor captain, refusal to drop Beauden are two huge issues.
A refusal to cut a winger so let's take 5 in the RWC squad.
ABs seem to think because there is a bye week between the last pool game and the quarter they can get away with fewer forwards - fucking big risk meanwhile we will line up against France without a 6 at all - cripes.
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I am actually wondering if heads were not in right place yesterday? I actually said to Mrs just before game I was worried with talk, it sounded like they were trying to talk themselves into it being a must win game, and not quite coming off to me. I not suggesting in anyway taking away how well Boks played , or how poor ABs seemed to be, just a thought I had.
@Dan54 My thoughts too. I knew a pasting was coming while watching the anthems. They weren’t up for this at all. And the Springboks clearly were. Mindset, attitude and mental strength are still the key underlying problems, which gets back to my earlier post about the Foster effect. I think he wants to be everyone’s mate, which is fatal for a head coach.
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@Dan54 My thoughts too. I knew a pasting was coming while watching the anthems. They weren’t up for this at all. And the Springboks clearly were. Mindset, attitude and mental strength are still the key underlying problems, which gets back to my earlier post about the Foster effect. I think he wants to be everyone’s mate, which is fatal for a head coach.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Dan54 My thoughts too. I knew a pasting was coming while watching the anthems. They weren’t up for this at all. And the Springboks clearly were. Mindset, attitude and mental strength are still the key underlying problems, which gets back to my earlier post about the Foster effect. I think he wants to be everyone’s mate, which is fatal for a head coach.
Ties in with my post below.
Too nice to his squad....Waaaaay too nice to refs both in the build up to and after games. Be magnanimous sure, but we are being led a merry dance by the Rassies, Farrells, Sextons and Eddie Jones of the world.
From the social media account right up to the head coach, we have had 6 or 7 years of sniffing our own farts and falling over ourselves to be the good guys on and off the pitch. Rassies video whether you like it or not, turned that Lions series. Simple things like mentioning how Kolisi was not afforded the same audience with the ref as the opposition captain.
The Mako Vunipola smash on Barrett in the same game as the SBW red in 2017 (with differing sanctions) followed by the "we have a deal" Garces special the following week and the resultant shoulder shrugs from our leaders and coaches showed the seeds had been sewn. We went from a team with a 100 year invisibility cloak on, to one who gets carded more than everyone else in the space of a few years up to and including the Taa'vao/Andrew Porter fiasco which again resulted in another bungled home series. And Foster still had nothing to say.
We have turned the other cheek on and off the pitch for too long.
The coaching should be ruthless and the players should be ruthless. Mark Robinson similarly showed a lack of ruthlessness. Kite flying and taking the temperature of the nation before making decisions. Sack him or back him.
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@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Dan54 My thoughts too. I knew a pasting was coming while watching the anthems. They weren’t up for this at all. And the Springboks clearly were. Mindset, attitude and mental strength are still the key underlying problems, which gets back to my earlier post about the Foster effect. I think he wants to be everyone’s mate, which is fatal for a head coach.
Ties in with my post below.
Too nice to his squad....Waaaaay too nice to refs both in the build up to and after games. Be magnanimous sure, but we are being led a merry dance by the Rassies, Farrells, Sextons and Eddie Jones of the world.
From the social media account right up to the head coach, we have had 6 or 7 years of sniffing our own farts and falling over ourselves to be the good guys on and off the pitch. Rassies video whether you like it or not, turned that Lions series. Simple things like mentioning how Kolisi was not afforded the same audience with the ref as the opposition captain.
The Mako Vunipola smash on Barrett in the same game as the SBW red in 2017 (with differing sanctions) followed by the "we have a deal" Garces special the following week and the resultant shoulder shrugs from our leaders and coaches showed the seeds had been sewn. We went from a team with a 100 year invisibility cloak on, to one who gets carded more than everyone else in the space of a few years up to and including the Taa'vao/Andrew Porter fiasco which again resulted in another bungled home series. And Foster still had nothing to say.
We have turned the other cheek on and off the pitch for too long.
The coaching should be ruthless and the players should be ruthless. Mark Robinson similarly showed a lack of ruthlessness. Kite flying and taking the temperature of the nation before making decisions. Sack him or back him.
@Steve Agree. The wanting to be seen as the good guys stems I think from the Silver Lake private equity takeover of the All Black ‘brand’. They’re morphing into a marketing concept masquerading as a rugby team. There’s a lack of smarts from Foster, which as you say stands in stark contrast with the gamesmanship, media trolling and outright skullduggery that his counterparts among the other leading Test nations so readily deploy. We see it on-field too, with the Springboks’ wily gamesmanship on display with the fake injuries, time wasting and, in this last test, the lineout tactic that drew the ABs into getting penalised in their maul defence. The ABs and the term ‘nice guys’ don’t go together, but Foster has been determined to seem reasonable and affable and malleable. That’s infected the entire team’s mentality. No sense of ruthlessness. No hard edges. Just flaccid.
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@Steve Agree. The wanting to be seen as the good guys stems I think from the Silver Lake private equity takeover of the All Black ‘brand’. They’re morphing into a marketing concept masquerading as a rugby team. There’s a lack of smarts from Foster, which as you say stands in stark contrast with the gamesmanship, media trolling and outright skullduggery that his counterparts among the other leading Test nations so readily deploy. We see it on-field too, with the Springboks’ wily gamesmanship on display with the fake injuries, time wasting and, in this last test, the lineout tactic that drew the ABs into getting penalised in their maul defence. The ABs and the term ‘nice guys’ don’t go together, but Foster has been determined to seem reasonable and affable and malleable. That’s infected the entire team’s mentality. No sense of ruthlessness. No hard edges. Just flaccid.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@Steve Agree. The wanting to be seen as the good guys stems I think from the Silver Lake private equity takeover of the All Black ‘brand’. They’re morphing into a marketing concept masquerading as a rugby team. There’s a lack of smarts from Foster, which as you say stands in stark contrast with the gamesmanship, media trolling and outright skullduggery that his counterparts among the other leading Test nations so readily deploy. We see it on-field too, with the Springboks’ wily gamesmanship on display with the fake injuries, time wasting and, in this last test, the lineout tactic that drew the ABs into getting penalised in their maul defence. The ABs and the term ‘nice guys’ don’t go together, but Foster has been determined to seem reasonable and affable and malleable. That’s infected the entire team’s mentality. No sense of ruthlessness. No hard edges. Just flaccid.
Exactly, the ticket is 100 quid, the jersey is a 100 quid , the TV subscription is x per month.
Then im sitting there angry about some on field issue and he potters out after the game to say something non committal like "we will look for clarification in that space" instead of saying "Barrett didn't touch Marx's head on any angle I've seen, but yeah I have seen them given, similarly Vermuelen was slapping the head off Jacobsen and the officiating team kept schtum so we will seek clarification on that". SAY SOMETHING. Sew seeds. Create a narrative.
None of the other tier 1 coaches and captains are playing fair on and off the field. The refs are getting harangued. Our stoicism in the face of any perceived shafting is getting us nowhere.
