All Blacks 2023
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@nostrildamus we're locked in to Cane and Savea which really limits who you can play at 6.
It's that simple really.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus we're locked in to Cane and Savea which really limits who you can play at 6.
It's that simple really.
but not that imaginative.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus we're locked in to Cane and Savea which really limits who you can play at 6.
It's that simple really.
but not that imaginative.
@nostrildamus Ardie with the well executed chip kick for Jordan was more imaginative than the majority of the supposed creators in the NZ backline on Friday night.
IMO, the balance was wrong on Friday in terms of piano shifters vs piano players in the pack.
Codie Taylor is one of more skilled forwards, but he was quiet. EDG was involved in a big contest at scrum time which impacted on his overall game (which was strong in the RC). Laulala was, well, Laulala. He did pretty well compared to his previous outings, but he poses no threat outside of the set piece.
Lomax is a big loss, both in the scrum and in the lineout with his height. He is also a decent ball handler. Taukei'aho needs to be given a run of games to get him back firing. He is the best NZ hooker in terms of power and running ability against bigger packs.
So when the big games roll round, the NZ front row needs to be EDG/ST/TL (assuming TL is fit).
Whitelock got through a ton of work as normal, but age catches up with us all. If he was there to unlock the French lineout, it didn't work. A second row of Retallick and Barrett offers the power and aerial ability needed as well as plenty of piano lifting and nuisances at the breakdown with a sprinkle of creativity (Barrett was good on Friday at troubling the French inside shoulder). Whitelock to come on late in the game to run himself ragged for 25/30 mins and guide the pack home.
The backrow - sigh - ABs have painted themselves into a corner with Cane as captain and Savea having played solely at no 8. With Shannon Frizell returning, the 6/7/8 of SF/SC/AS offer a hard running, defensively strong combination. This is no bad thing in the knockout stages of the world cup where NZ will need a harder edge.
So a starting pack of:
EDG/ST/TL
BR/SBSF/SC/AS
Bench forwards 5/3 split:
No idea on the reserve props as the step down feels most glaring in this area.
Codie Taylor as the reserve hooker.
Sam Whitelock as the reserve lock
Ethan Blackadder to cover 6/7/8
Are they the best pack in the competition. No. Are they capable of giving the backs enough of a platform. Yes. Their role is to tie in the opposing packs and provide decent ball for a backline that still has enough skill in them to open up defences.
NZ have scored 4 tries against the world-leading Bok defence this year in NZ and 2 tries against a much vaunted French defence on Friday night. NZ can still score tries. The big work ons from the last 2 games are:
- Applying pressure on the ruck to disrupt opposition ball. Counter rucking in twos and threes. French and Boks are very good at this.
- Not giving away stupid penalties (accuracy in clean outs was missing on Friday - wouldn't surprise me if the fear of a bad cleanout is preying on minds) and playing with less than 15 players for any period of time.
- Kick chasing - NZ don't have to win the aerial battle in the air. Let the man come down and be ready to smash him into next week Richard Kahui style. McCaw's AB team used to drive teams backwards in defence until they kicked or made mistakes. This AB team have enough good tacklers to force teams back with the sheer ferocity of their tackling.
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@nostrildamus Ardie with the well executed chip kick for Jordan was more imaginative than the majority of the supposed creators in the NZ backline on Friday night.
IMO, the balance was wrong on Friday in terms of piano shifters vs piano players in the pack.
Codie Taylor is one of more skilled forwards, but he was quiet. EDG was involved in a big contest at scrum time which impacted on his overall game (which was strong in the RC). Laulala was, well, Laulala. He did pretty well compared to his previous outings, but he poses no threat outside of the set piece.
Lomax is a big loss, both in the scrum and in the lineout with his height. He is also a decent ball handler. Taukei'aho needs to be given a run of games to get him back firing. He is the best NZ hooker in terms of power and running ability against bigger packs.
So when the big games roll round, the NZ front row needs to be EDG/ST/TL (assuming TL is fit).
Whitelock got through a ton of work as normal, but age catches up with us all. If he was there to unlock the French lineout, it didn't work. A second row of Retallick and Barrett offers the power and aerial ability needed as well as plenty of piano lifting and nuisances at the breakdown with a sprinkle of creativity (Barrett was good on Friday at troubling the French inside shoulder). Whitelock to come on late in the game to run himself ragged for 25/30 mins and guide the pack home.
The backrow - sigh - ABs have painted themselves into a corner with Cane as captain and Savea having played solely at no 8. With Shannon Frizell returning, the 6/7/8 of SF/SC/AS offer a hard running, defensively strong combination. This is no bad thing in the knockout stages of the world cup where NZ will need a harder edge.
So a starting pack of:
EDG/ST/TL
BR/SBSF/SC/AS
Bench forwards 5/3 split:
No idea on the reserve props as the step down feels most glaring in this area.
Codie Taylor as the reserve hooker.
Sam Whitelock as the reserve lock
Ethan Blackadder to cover 6/7/8
Are they the best pack in the competition. No. Are they capable of giving the backs enough of a platform. Yes. Their role is to tie in the opposing packs and provide decent ball for a backline that still has enough skill in them to open up defences.
NZ have scored 4 tries against the world-leading Bok defence this year in NZ and 2 tries against a much vaunted French defence on Friday night. NZ can still score tries. The big work ons from the last 2 games are:
- Applying pressure on the ruck to disrupt opposition ball. Counter rucking in twos and threes. French and Boks are very good at this.
- Not giving away stupid penalties (accuracy in clean outs was missing on Friday - wouldn't surprise me if the fear of a bad cleanout is preying on minds) and playing with less than 15 players for any period of time.
- Kick chasing - NZ don't have to win the aerial battle in the air. Let the man come down and be ready to smash him into next week Richard Kahui style. McCaw's AB team used to drive teams backwards in defence until they kicked or made mistakes. This AB team have enough good tacklers to force teams back with the sheer ferocity of their tackling.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2023:
Taukei'aho needs to be given a run of games to get him back firing. He is the best NZ hooker in terms of power and running ability against bigger packs.
Have been so frustrated by his exclusion from the starting XV. Our most physical and best tight forward. You have to start him as often as possible.
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I know super rugby form doesn't mean much
But if I was in charge of picking the loose forwards
I'm picking Harmon at 7, the only guy in NZ rugby still hard at the ball
I've got Akira Ioane at 8 because I know he will get me through a defensive line
And I have Finau at 6 for very fucking hard shoulders.On the bench is either Ardie Savea or Sotutu to offer something different late in a game
I have height. I have balance. I have heat on the ground. I gave guys who are hard to tackle. I have guys who you don't want to he hit by
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
I know super rugby form doesn't mean much
But if I was in charge of picking the loose forwards
I'm picking Harmon at 7, the only guy in NZ rugby still hard at the ball
I've got Akira Ioane at 8 because I know he will get me through a defensive line
And I have Finau at 6 for very fucking hard shoulders.On the bench is either Ardie Savea or Sotutu to offer something different late in a game
I have height. I have balance. I have heat on the ground. I gave guys who are hard to tackle. I have guys who you don't want to he hit by
- FINAU
- BLACKADDER
- SAVEA
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@nostrildamus Ardie with the well executed chip kick for Jordan was more imaginative than the majority of the supposed creators in the NZ backline on Friday night.
IMO, the balance was wrong on Friday in terms of piano shifters vs piano players in the pack.
Codie Taylor is one of more skilled forwards, but he was quiet. EDG was involved in a big contest at scrum time which impacted on his overall game (which was strong in the RC). Laulala was, well, Laulala. He did pretty well compared to his previous outings, but he poses no threat outside of the set piece.
Lomax is a big loss, both in the scrum and in the lineout with his height. He is also a decent ball handler. Taukei'aho needs to be given a run of games to get him back firing. He is the best NZ hooker in terms of power and running ability against bigger packs.
So when the big games roll round, the NZ front row needs to be EDG/ST/TL (assuming TL is fit).
Whitelock got through a ton of work as normal, but age catches up with us all. If he was there to unlock the French lineout, it didn't work. A second row of Retallick and Barrett offers the power and aerial ability needed as well as plenty of piano lifting and nuisances at the breakdown with a sprinkle of creativity (Barrett was good on Friday at troubling the French inside shoulder). Whitelock to come on late in the game to run himself ragged for 25/30 mins and guide the pack home.
The backrow - sigh - ABs have painted themselves into a corner with Cane as captain and Savea having played solely at no 8. With Shannon Frizell returning, the 6/7/8 of SF/SC/AS offer a hard running, defensively strong combination. This is no bad thing in the knockout stages of the world cup where NZ will need a harder edge.
So a starting pack of:
EDG/ST/TL
BR/SBSF/SC/AS
Bench forwards 5/3 split:
No idea on the reserve props as the step down feels most glaring in this area.
Codie Taylor as the reserve hooker.
Sam Whitelock as the reserve lock
Ethan Blackadder to cover 6/7/8
Are they the best pack in the competition. No. Are they capable of giving the backs enough of a platform. Yes. Their role is to tie in the opposing packs and provide decent ball for a backline that still has enough skill in them to open up defences.
NZ have scored 4 tries against the world-leading Bok defence this year in NZ and 2 tries against a much vaunted French defence on Friday night. NZ can still score tries. The big work ons from the last 2 games are:
- Applying pressure on the ruck to disrupt opposition ball. Counter rucking in twos and threes. French and Boks are very good at this.
- Not giving away stupid penalties (accuracy in clean outs was missing on Friday - wouldn't surprise me if the fear of a bad cleanout is preying on minds) and playing with less than 15 players for any period of time.
- Kick chasing - NZ don't have to win the aerial battle in the air. Let the man come down and be ready to smash him into next week Richard Kahui style. McCaw's AB team used to drive teams backwards in defence until they kicked or made mistakes. This AB team have enough good tacklers to force teams back with the sheer ferocity of their tackling.
@stodders said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus Ardie with the well executed chip kick for Jordan was more imaginative than the majority of the supposed creators in the NZ backline on Friday night.
IMO, the balance was wrong on Friday in terms of piano shifters vs piano players in the pack.
Corey Flynn is one of more skilled forwards, but he was quiet. EDG was involved in a big contest at scrum time which impacted on his overall game (which was strong in the RC). Laulala was, well, Laulala. He did pretty well compared to his previous outings, but he poses no threat outside of the set piece.
Lomax is a big loss, both in the scrum and in the lineout with his height. He is also a decent ball handler. Taukei'aho needs to be given a run of games to get him back firing. He is the best NZ hooker in terms of power and running ability against bigger packs.
So when the big games roll round, the NZ front row needs to be EDG/ST/TL (assuming TL is fit).
Whitelock got through a ton of work as normal, but age catches up with us all. If he was there to unlock the French lineout, it didn't work. A second row of Retallick and Barrett offers the power and aerial ability needed as well as plenty of piano lifting and nuisances at the breakdown with a sprinkle of creativity (Barrett was good on Friday at troubling the French inside shoulder). Whitelock to come on late in the game to run himself ragged for 25/30 mins and guide the pack home.
The backrow - sigh - ABs have painted themselves into a corner with Cane as captain and Savea having played solely at no 8. With Shannon Frizell returning, the 6/7/8 of SF/SC/AS offer a hard running, defensively strong combination. This is no bad thing in the knockout stages of the world cup where NZ will need a harder edge.
So a starting pack of:
EDG/ST/TL
BR/SBSF/SC/AS
Bench forwards 5/3 split:
No idea on the reserve props as the step down feels most glaring in this area.
Corey Flynn as the reserve hooker.
Sam Whitelock as the reserve lock
Ethan Blackadder to cover 6/7/8
Are they the best pack in the competition. No. Are they capable of giving the backs enough of a platform. Yes. Their role is to tie in the opposing packs and provide decent ball for a backline that still has enough skill in them to open up defences.
NZ have scored 4 tries against the world-leading Bok defence this year in NZ and 2 tries against a much vaunted French defence on Friday night. NZ can still score tries. The big work ons from the last 2 games are:
- Applying pressure on the ruck to disrupt opposition ball. Counter rucking in twos and threes. French and Boks are very good at this.
- Not giving away stupid penalties (accuracy in clean outs was missing on Friday - wouldn't surprise me if the fear of a bad cleanout is preying on minds) and playing with less than 15 players for any period of time.
- Kick chasing - NZ don't have to win the aerial battle in the air. Let the man come down and be ready to smash him into next week Richard Kahui style. McCaw's AB team used to drive teams backwards in defence until they kicked or made mistakes. This AB team have enough good tacklers to force teams back with the sheer ferocity of their tackling.
Corey Flynn?
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2023:
@nostrildamus Ardie with the well executed chip kick for Jordan was more imaginative than the majority of the supposed creators in the NZ backline on Friday night.
IMO, the balance was wrong on Friday in terms of piano shifters vs piano players in the pack.
Corey Flynn is one of more skilled forwards, but he was quiet. EDG was involved in a big contest at scrum time which impacted on his overall game (which was strong in the RC). Laulala was, well, Laulala. He did pretty well compared to his previous outings, but he poses no threat outside of the set piece.
Lomax is a big loss, both in the scrum and in the lineout with his height. He is also a decent ball handler. Taukei'aho needs to be given a run of games to get him back firing. He is the best NZ hooker in terms of power and running ability against bigger packs.
So when the big games roll round, the NZ front row needs to be EDG/ST/TL (assuming TL is fit).
Whitelock got through a ton of work as normal, but age catches up with us all. If he was there to unlock the French lineout, it didn't work. A second row of Retallick and Barrett offers the power and aerial ability needed as well as plenty of piano lifting and nuisances at the breakdown with a sprinkle of creativity (Barrett was good on Friday at troubling the French inside shoulder). Whitelock to come on late in the game to run himself ragged for 25/30 mins and guide the pack home.
The backrow - sigh - ABs have painted themselves into a corner with Cane as captain and Savea having played solely at no 8. With Shannon Frizell returning, the 6/7/8 of SF/SC/AS offer a hard running, defensively strong combination. This is no bad thing in the knockout stages of the world cup where NZ will need a harder edge.
So a starting pack of:
EDG/ST/TL
BR/SBSF/SC/AS
Bench forwards 5/3 split:
No idea on the reserve props as the step down feels most glaring in this area.
Corey Flynn as the reserve hooker.
Sam Whitelock as the reserve lock
Ethan Blackadder to cover 6/7/8
Are they the best pack in the competition. No. Are they capable of giving the backs enough of a platform. Yes. Their role is to tie in the opposing packs and provide decent ball for a backline that still has enough skill in them to open up defences.
NZ have scored 4 tries against the world-leading Bok defence this year in NZ and 2 tries against a much vaunted French defence on Friday night. NZ can still score tries. The big work ons from the last 2 games are:
- Applying pressure on the ruck to disrupt opposition ball. Counter rucking in twos and threes. French and Boks are very good at this.
- Not giving away stupid penalties (accuracy in clean outs was missing on Friday - wouldn't surprise me if the fear of a bad cleanout is preying on minds) and playing with less than 15 players for any period of time.
- Kick chasing - NZ don't have to win the aerial battle in the air. Let the man come down and be ready to smash him into next week Richard Kahui style. McCaw's AB team used to drive teams backwards in defence until they kicked or made mistakes. This AB team have enough good tacklers to force teams back with the sheer ferocity of their tackling.
Corey Flynn?
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2023:
I know super rugby form doesn't mean much
But if I was in charge of picking the loose forwards
I'm picking Harmon at 7, the only guy in NZ rugby still hard at the ball
I've got Akira Ioane at 8 because I know he will get me through a defensive line
And I have Finau at 6 for very fucking hard shoulders.On the bench is either Ardie Savea or Sotutu to offer something different late in a game
I have height. I have balance. I have heat on the ground. I gave guys who are hard to tackle. I have guys who you don't want to he hit by
- FINAU
- BLACKADDER
- SAVEA
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@Steve you can’t select Finau if he isn’t in the squad. If Cane relapses, maybe the selectors will bring him in.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve you can’t select Finau if he isn’t in the squad. If Cane relapses, maybe the selectors will bring him in.
I was replying to mariner4life with his hypothetical backrow.
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Cannot listen to Hansen anymore.
He should have gone in 2017 as he said he would and his strenuous efforts to have Foster installed as his successor enraged me at the time and still do.@Jimmy-Jimmy said in All Blacks 2023:
Cannot listen to Hansen anymore.
He should have gone in 2017 as he said he would and his strenuous efforts to have Foster installed as his successor enraged me at the time and still do.Couldn’t agree more. Not to mention his condescending support of foster.
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Is there any science behind the A Smith subbing.
@BerniesCorner He was obviously tired and slow when he was subbed. His box kicks were poor. He was great in the first half. He missed two important tackles, but the forwards should have been there for those.
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Has rugby changed so much in the last decade that a skilled first five can't apply territorial pressure with his long boot? Players are faster on ball retrieval?/Lifting in lineouts negates the advantage?
This 50/20 rule seems a goodie. Something to work on. Constant up and unders seem such a hit and miss strategy.
Shovelling mediocre ball along the backline is futile against good teams.
Boks are in the box seat. Awesome scrum/lineout/prop and lock subs/backline defence@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2023:
Has rugby changed so much in the last decade that a skilled first five can't apply territorial pressure with his long boot?
No, cf. George Ford
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The SA props and locks subs are a major problem. Awesome power
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2023:
The SA props and locks subs are a major problem. Awesome power
Intimidation factor aplenty too.
RG Snyman looks like a henchman from Vikings.
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Our lack of depth really prevents us from making early forward substitutions. Our whole frontrow will need to play deep into the second half. We also don't have an impact loose forward. Having Whitelock replace Retallick early is probably our best option.
@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:
Our lack of depth really prevents us from making early forward substitutions. Our whole frontrow will need to play deep into the second half. We also don't have an impact loose forward. Having Whitelock replace Retallick early is probably our best option.
I remember Cameron Suafoa being an absolute beast against the midweek Ireland side in Hamilton last year. Easily the best forward on the park, and then he's not selected for the 2nd game against them. Couldn't understand why but I guess it must have been influenced by the AB selectors.
We finally have a big power loose foward and we discard him. Instead we are obsessed with smaller, mobile forwards when the game internationally has shifted to a power game.
I'm not saying that he would definitely be test ready by now but he could have been if we had picked him and persevered with him. At least have a look instead of sticking to the same outdated formula. Same with Finau.
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@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:
Our lack of depth really prevents us from making early forward substitutions. Our whole frontrow will need to play deep into the second half. We also don't have an impact loose forward. Having Whitelock replace Retallick early is probably our best option.
I remember Cameron Suafoa being an absolute beast against the midweek Ireland side in Hamilton last year. Easily the best forward on the park, and then he's not selected for the 2nd game against them. Couldn't understand why but I guess it must have been influenced by the AB selectors.
We finally have a big power loose foward and we discard him. Instead we are obsessed with smaller, mobile forwards when the game internationally has shifted to a power game.
I'm not saying that he would definitely be test ready by now but he could have been if we had picked him and persevered with him. At least have a look instead of sticking to the same outdated formula. Same with Finau.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:
Our lack of depth really prevents us from making early forward substitutions. Our whole frontrow will need to play deep into the second half. We also don't have an impact loose forward. Having Whitelock replace Retallick early is probably our best option.
I remember Cameron Suafoa being an absolute beast against the midweek Ireland side in Hamilton last year. Easily the best forward on the park, and then he's not selected for the 2nd game against them. Couldn't understand why but I guess it must have been influenced by the AB selectors.
We finally have a big power loose foward and we discard him. Instead we are obsessed with smaller, mobile forwards when the game internationally has shifted to a power game.
I'm not saying that he would definitely be test ready by now but he could have been if we had picked him and persevered with him. At least have a look instead of sticking to the same outdated formula. Same with Finau.
Is it that or do they not play “big” enough ?
Papalii and Jacobsen are not small men.
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:
Our lack of depth really prevents us from making early forward substitutions. Our whole frontrow will need to play deep into the second half. We also don't have an impact loose forward. Having Whitelock replace Retallick early is probably our best option.
I remember Cameron Suafoa being an absolute beast against the midweek Ireland side in Hamilton last year. Easily the best forward on the park, and then he's not selected for the 2nd game against them. Couldn't understand why but I guess it must have been influenced by the AB selectors.
We finally have a big power loose foward and we discard him. Instead we are obsessed with smaller, mobile forwards when the game internationally has shifted to a power game.
I'm not saying that he would definitely be test ready by now but he could have been if we had picked him and persevered with him. At least have a look instead of sticking to the same outdated formula. Same with Finau.
Is it that or do they not play “big” enough ?
Papalii and Jacobsen are not small men.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:
Our lack of depth really prevents us from making early forward substitutions. Our whole frontrow will need to play deep into the second half. We also don't have an impact loose forward. Having Whitelock replace Retallick early is probably our best option.
I remember Cameron Suafoa being an absolute beast against the midweek Ireland side in Hamilton last year. Easily the best forward on the park, and then he's not selected for the 2nd game against them. Couldn't understand why but I guess it must have been influenced by the AB selectors.
We finally have a big power loose foward and we discard him. Instead we are obsessed with smaller, mobile forwards when the game internationally has shifted to a power game.
I'm not saying that he would definitely be test ready by now but he could have been if we had picked him and persevered with him. At least have a look instead of sticking to the same outdated formula. Same with Finau.
Is it that or do they not play “big” enough ?
Papalii and Jacobsen are not small men.
Yeah that's a valid point. A guy like Kolisi is not big but he has immense power. However, since our existing players aren't playing big enough, we need to look at other players.
. I’ll just refer to Taylor as the Crusaders hooker to be safe in future 
