All Blacks 2023
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:
Our lack of depth really prevents us from making early forward substitutions. Our whole frontrow will need to play deep into the second half. We also don't have an impact loose forward. Having Whitelock replace Retallick early is probably our best option.
I remember Cameron Suafoa being an absolute beast against the midweek Ireland side in Hamilton last year. Easily the best forward on the park, and then he's not selected for the 2nd game against them. Couldn't understand why but I guess it must have been influenced by the AB selectors.
We finally have a big power loose foward and we discard him. Instead we are obsessed with smaller, mobile forwards when the game internationally has shifted to a power game.
I'm not saying that he would definitely be test ready by now but he could have been if we had picked him and persevered with him. At least have a look instead of sticking to the same outdated formula. Same with Finau.
Is it that or do they not play “big” enough ?
Papalii and Jacobsen are not small men.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Tim said in All Blacks 2023:
Our lack of depth really prevents us from making early forward substitutions. Our whole frontrow will need to play deep into the second half. We also don't have an impact loose forward. Having Whitelock replace Retallick early is probably our best option.
I remember Cameron Suafoa being an absolute beast against the midweek Ireland side in Hamilton last year. Easily the best forward on the park, and then he's not selected for the 2nd game against them. Couldn't understand why but I guess it must have been influenced by the AB selectors.
We finally have a big power loose foward and we discard him. Instead we are obsessed with smaller, mobile forwards when the game internationally has shifted to a power game.
I'm not saying that he would definitely be test ready by now but he could have been if we had picked him and persevered with him. At least have a look instead of sticking to the same outdated formula. Same with Finau.
Is it that or do they not play “big” enough ?
Papalii and Jacobsen are not small men.
Yeah that's a valid point. A guy like Kolisi is not big but he has immense power. However, since our existing players aren't playing big enough, we need to look at other players.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks 2023:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2023:
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2023:
@nzzp i really don't think we are going to be ripping anyone apart bringing on the likes of christie, newell, laulala (once lomax is back), havili, ALB, jacobsen etc.
surely if that's the plan you'd pick a different bench?Foster has definitely been conservative in his selections, squad wise and on game day.
I think Beauden Barretts inclusion is a massive problem because he also creates collateral damage on the bench.
If you had a Jordan or Stevenson at 15
Lol thank fuck you're not a selector.
Do you think the last few years of Barrett at 15 have been productive?
No, for various reasons.
Do you think we should continue?
Yes. If he's not the best option he's second best.
He is one of my favourite players of all time but its not working in my opinion.
It's not going to work with players that are less skilled.
SS has glaring issues in his game he needs to address. Jordan just gave a horror show on top of his obvious frailties in the defensive aspect of the game.
We are all agreed that it's not working.
SS / WJ / DM all have issues sure. But they also all have an x-factor. BB just has issues right now, the x-factor is long gone. Yeah, we can argue he is playing Fozzie's tactics, and maybe dismiss some of the frustrating kicking - but he also makes a shitload of errors, and has a generally poor kicking game, both exits and bomb accuracy. When is the last time he actually did something of truly high quality? He's not making breaks or counter attacking any more, he's not hitting the line with any venom. Defensively maybe he's the stronger of the 4, but DM might argue that.
I just don't see what he brings. If he was super-safe but unexciting, then I could be convinced that making a change was dangerous. But he's really not. The others guys for me offer way more upside, and a similar level of downside.
I'd be starting WJ at 15 if I was picking.
For all the Stevenson/Jordan/DMAC at 15 boo boys, look at it this way.
The favourites for the tournament have Mack Hansen and James Lowe in the back three.
Hardly generational talents.
The persistence with Beaudy has created a logjam where nobody else bar his brother got time in the saddle at 15.
@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
The favourites for the tournament have Mack Hansen and James Lowe in the back three.
Hardly generational talents.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2023:
It’s worth pointing out that the ABs won a World Cup with Richard Kahui on the wing.
what we're proving here is that the natural talent of a player is only a part of the equation......i half decent coach will come up with a game plan that lets everyone shine....rather than deciding on a game plan....and independently picking "the best" 32 players....and then wondering why its not clicking
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Razor doing his home work already.
For those without instagram:
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Interesting to hear Ryan say that if we had a full deck we would be able to compete. So he's admitting that the backups are shit. That sure doesn't fill me with confidence, perhaps they should have picked a better squad.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2023:
Yes I would have him as well. He played really well in his test against Argentina this year and he has a big future in Black.
Vaai is a light lock who plays about 10kgs lighter than he looks.
I don’t see the attraction in him at the moment
Tupou Vaai has 19 caps......
Let that sink in.
I have binned him after the first 5 or so.
@Steve Sad thing is, is he's actually played 23 tests.
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question, did people feel the game was more stunted then other games?
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Interesting to hear Ryan say that if we had a full deck we would be able to compete. So he's admitting that the backups are shit. That sure doesn't fill me with confidence, perhaps they should have picked a better squad.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
Interesting to hear Ryan say that if we had a full deck we would be able to compete. So he's admitting that the backups are shit. That sure doesn't fill me with confidence, perhaps they should have picked a better squad.
Who realistically could they have picked though? Blackadder wasn't an option due to his injuries, and then the rest, are they actually any better than what we have over there?
Tuipulotu, Finau, Ioane etc. are still a major dropdown from what they're replacing (based off of the evidence at hand).
IMO we have a real lack of depth from 1-13 (Barring 2 and excluding 11).
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@Steve said in All Blacks 2023:
Hansen the latest guest on high performance podcast.
Ah the philosopher king of World Rugby who got bungled out of the World Cup by a better coached England.
@Frank said in All Blacks 2023:
Ah the philosopher king of World Rugby who got bungled out of the World Cup by a better coached England.
that's some mediocre philosphy TBHlook at it another way-h is good, but some of his success was built on a great core of players from Henry's era, and after he lost them, it was a steady decline in quality through to 2019. Some of the posters on this website could have done just as well.
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Interesting to hear Ryan say that if we had a full deck we would be able to compete. So he's admitting that the backups are shit. That sure doesn't fill me with confidence, perhaps they should have picked a better squad.
@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
Interesting to hear Ryan say that if we had a full deck we would be able to compete. So he's admitting that the backups are shit. That sure doesn't fill me with confidence, perhaps they should have picked a better squad.
An admission that you can't make every player world class?
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@akan004 said in All Blacks 2023:
Interesting to hear Ryan say that if we had a full deck we would be able to compete. So he's admitting that the backups are shit. That sure doesn't fill me with confidence, perhaps they should have picked a better squad.
An admission that you can't make every player world class?
@antipodean it was a bit of a gamble to throw Vaai in at 6, gamble didnt pay out, from a couch coach perspective there have been doubts over Vaai's game at lock, and then to throw him into an unfamiliar position against world class opposition, was really only likely to be one outcome, not that he was solely to blame.
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@antipodean it was a bit of a gamble to throw Vaai in at 6, gamble didnt pay out, from a couch coach perspective there have been doubts over Vaai's game at lock, and then to throw him into an unfamiliar position against world class opposition, was really only likely to be one outcome, not that he was solely to blame.
You can argue that it was going to be a gamble playing Papalii at 6 too. It would have been interesting to see how that went, but we'll never know now. Foster and Ryan had 24 h to decide who would replace Cane, so I am assuming they discussed all options.
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You can argue that it was going to be a gamble playing Papalii at 6 too. It would have been interesting to see how that went, but we'll never know now. Foster and Ryan had 24 h to decide who would replace Cane, so I am assuming they discussed all options.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2023:
You can argue that it was going to be a gamble playing Papalii at 6 too. It would have been interesting to see how that went, but we'll never know now. Foster and Ryan had 24 h to decide who would replace Cane, so I am assuming they discussed all options.
What confuses me, is if they really felt Papalii/Vaa'i are better options at 6 then Jacobson, why not give them a run there in the starting side v the Boks... and then the reverse argument, what was it they saw in 35 minutes from Jacobson, made them think he was really that poor an option.
The selections with Jacobson have been odd, it's like they don't rate him, yet chose to pick him, despite having more faith in the likes of Akira Ioane. Not sure if they are trying to send a message or what, but it is all very odd for me. Jacobson isn't an eye-catching player, but he is a tough bastard who will do the hard yards. I don't know what evidence they saw that Vaa'i was their man to run 6.
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You can argue that it was going to be a gamble playing Papalii at 6 too. It would have been interesting to see how that went, but we'll never know now. Foster and Ryan had 24 h to decide who would replace Cane, so I am assuming they discussed all options.
@Bovidae agree, gamble either way, but then they gambled when they selected the locks and loosies they did, so far the house is winning!
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At the end of the day, the Super sides have better balanced loosie trios than the ABs.
We'd likely be better off with any of the below:
Finau (6), Cane (7), Jacobson (8)
Lio WIllie (6), Blackadder (7), Grace (8)
Ioane (6), Papalii (7), Sotutu (8)
Frizell (6), Harmon (7), MMT (8)
Flanders (6), Savea (7), Iose (8)With Cane and Savea both playing, we are basically fucked. Given that Cane is the captain, the only way to really achieve balance is if they picked Savea off the bench, or Frizell plays every game like he did in the opening against SA.
