Foster's Firsts.
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I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).
Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed. The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.
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@Nevorian said in Foster's Firsts.:
Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one
Nah nowhere near (from 2022)
@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Nevorian said in Foster's Firsts.:
Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one
Nah nowhere near (from 2022)
Fred Allen is missing and had a 100% record from 14 Tests. Never lost a game IIRC and had one draw.
There's some names there like Ivan Vodanovich & JJ Stewart I really don't want to ever see again.... And we think the last few years have been a bit shit.
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I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).
Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed. The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.
@Chester-Draws said in Foster's Firsts.:
I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).
Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed.
The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.Different era. Coaches were appointed according to the touring schedule and being coach for more than a couple of years was very unusual. Coaching GOAT Fred Allen (won all 14 Tests) was only in the job for 2 years and JJ Stewart coached for 3 more years after losing a series at home to England in '73.
The closest parallel to today is Vodanovich who was replaced by the 1970's Coaching Jesus Bob Duff.
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I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).
Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed. The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.
@Chester-Draws said in Foster's Firsts.:
I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).
Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed. The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.
Different times for sure.
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
Worth pointing out a very good Scots team that had just won a Grand Slam and contained all timers like David Sole, John Jeffrey, Finlay Calder, Gary Armstrong and the Hastings bros.
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@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Nevorian said in Foster's Firsts.:
Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one
Nah nowhere near (from 2022)
Fred Allen is missing and had a 100% record from 14 Tests. Never lost a game IIRC and had one draw.
There's some names there like Ivan Vodanovich & JJ Stewart I really don't want to ever see again.... And we think the last few years have been a bit shit.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Nevorian said in Foster's Firsts.:
Foz could be first AB coach to have win ratio below 70% ? Might have to fact check that one
Nah nowhere near (from 2022)
Fred Allen is missing and had a 100% record from 14 Tests. Never lost a game IIRC and had one draw.
There's some names there like Ivan Vodanovich & JJ Stewart I really don't want to ever see again.... And we think the last few years have been a bit shit.
Yeah I only included the 70% and less which is relevant to the incorrect statement
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster's Firsts.:
I note that almost all those coaches with poorer results got the chop before 4 years. As should have Foster (because at that point his results were even worse).
Some of those guys only had one losing tour, and then were axed. The series loss to Ireland would have been the end of a coach in previous times.
Different times for sure.
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
Worth pointing out a very good Scots team that had just won a Grand Slam and contained all timers like David Sole, John Jeffrey, Finlay Calder, Gary Armstrong and the Hastings bros.
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.
Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.
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Bryce Rope (1983 — 1984) 9 1 2 12 75
Bob Duff (1972 — 1973) 6 1 1 8 75
John Hart (1996 — 1999) 31 1 9 41 76
Jack Gleeson (1977 — 1978) 10 0 3 13 77
Brian Lochore (1985 — 1987) 14 1 3 18 78
Neil McPhail (1961, 1963 — 1965) 16 2 2 20 80
John Mitchell (2002 — 2003) 23 1 4 28 82
Peter Burke (1981 — 1982) 9 0 2 11 82
Graham Henry (2004 — 2011) 88 0 15 103 85
Alex Wyllie (1988 — 1991) 25 1 3 29 86
Steve Hansen (2012 — 2019) 93 4 10 107 87
Fred Allen (1966 — 1968) 14 0 0 14 100
Ron Bush (1962) 2 0 0 2 100
Dick Everest (1957) 2 0 0 2 100
Len Clode (1951) 3 0 0 3 100 -
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.
Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.
Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.
Why was Buck the scapegoat?
Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?
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Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.
Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.
Why was Buck the scapegoat?
Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.
Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.
Why was Buck the scapegoat?
Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?
Million Dollar Question
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.
Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.
Why was Buck the scapegoat?
Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?
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Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.
@No-Quarter said in Foster's Firsts.:
Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.
Yeah no way little old NZ is getting back to that dominance, but the way that work & excellence has been lost so fast with the weak NZR unable to move on beyond those two coaches and protégée is terrible
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Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.
@No-Quarter said in Foster's Firsts.:
Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.
Golden generation too. How many (in their positions) GOATs were there?
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@No-Quarter said in Foster's Firsts.:
Henry and Hansen's records really stand out given the number of games. Absolutely incredible success during the professional era. Not saying we can't improve but we probably have to accept we are unlikely to see win percentages like that again over so many matches.
Golden generation too. How many (in their positions) GOATs were there?
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If you look at the 2015 squad a couple nailed on and probably another 9 that would be in the conversation.
@dogmeat said in Foster's Firsts.:
If you look at the 2015 squad a couple nailed on and probably another 9 that would be in the conversation.
The 12 and 8 went ok too
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.
Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.
Why was Buck the scapegoat?
Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster's Firsts.:
@MN5 said in Foster's Firsts.:
They were ruthless on players too, Buck Shelford got dropped because the ABs didn’t beat Scotland convincingly.
IIRC our win ratio for the next 5 years plummeted to below 70% when it was nearly 100% under Buck.
Clearly, being ruthless on players worked out well back then.
Why was Buck the scapegoat?
Everyone knows all about “Bring back Buck” but why was it him and no one else ?
There were rumblings about him getting the arse before that because Zinzan Brooke had more hype than even Ethan Blackadder at the time and Buck was getting long in the tooth.
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Bryce Rope (1983 — 1984) 9 1 2 12 75
Bob Duff (1972 — 1973) 6 1 1 8 75
John Hart (1996 — 1999) 31 1 9 41 76
Jack Gleeson (1977 — 1978) 10 0 3 13 77
Brian Lochore (1985 — 1987) 14 1 3 18 78
Neil McPhail (1961, 1963 — 1965) 16 2 2 20 80
John Mitchell (2002 — 2003) 23 1 4 28 82
Peter Burke (1981 — 1982) 9 0 2 11 82
Graham Henry (2004 — 2011) 88 0 15 103 85
Alex Wyllie (1988 — 1991) 25 1 3 29 86
Steve Hansen (2012 — 2019) 93 4 10 107 87
Fred Allen (1966 — 1968) 14 0 0 14 100
Ron Bush (1962) 2 0 0 2 100
Dick Everest (1957) 2 0 0 2 100
Len Clode (1951) 3 0 0 3 100@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:
Bryce Rope (1983 — 1984) 9 1 2 12 75
Bob Duff (1972 — 1973) 6 1 1 8 75
John Hart (1996 — 1999) 31 1 9 41 76
Jack Gleeson (1977 — 1978) 10 0 3 13 77
Brian Lochore (1985 — 1987) 14 1 3 18 78
Neil McPhail (1961, 1963 — 1965) 16 2 2 20 80
John Mitchell (2002 — 2003) 23 1 4 28 82
Peter Burke (1981 — 1982) 9 0 2 11 82
Graham Henry (2004 — 2011) 88 0 15 103 85
Alex Wyllie (1988 — 1991) 25 1 3 29 86
Steve Hansen (2012 — 2019) 93 4 10 107 87
Fred Allen (1966 — 1968) 14 0 0 14 100
Ron Bush (1962) 2 0 0 2 100
Dick Everest (1957) 2 0 0 2 100
Len Clode (1951) 3 0 0 3 100Why so much hate for John Mitchell, I would take 82% WR at the moment.
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@Machpants said in Foster's Firsts.:
Bryce Rope (1983 — 1984) 9 1 2 12 75
Bob Duff (1972 — 1973) 6 1 1 8 75
John Hart (1996 — 1999) 31 1 9 41 76
Jack Gleeson (1977 — 1978) 10 0 3 13 77
Brian Lochore (1985 — 1987) 14 1 3 18 78
Neil McPhail (1961, 1963 — 1965) 16 2 2 20 80
John Mitchell (2002 — 2003) 23 1 4 28 82
Peter Burke (1981 — 1982) 9 0 2 11 82
Graham Henry (2004 — 2011) 88 0 15 103 85
Alex Wyllie (1988 — 1991) 25 1 3 29 86
Steve Hansen (2012 — 2019) 93 4 10 107 87
Fred Allen (1966 — 1968) 14 0 0 14 100
Ron Bush (1962) 2 0 0 2 100
Dick Everest (1957) 2 0 0 2 100
Len Clode (1951) 3 0 0 3 100Why so much hate for John Mitchell, I would take 82% WR at the moment.
