RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
It's the Italy match thread and we're talking about Ireland. FWIW I recall Ireland were number one in the world (briefly) just over four years ago entering the RWC. They lost to Japan and then got flogged in the quarter-final by us.
They certainly weren't coming in on the back of a 16 game streak tho
@Machpants I read in that streak they have conceded on average 13.8 points per game...only really 3 scoring chances.
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I donât think it is a conscious thing, it is just something that happens through playing together winning together and finding ways to win together when perhaps they shouldnât have.
Itâs an intangible thing, much like the All Black aura. But Ireland certainly have this now.
Like many great AB sides have before them.
The current one doesnât. That doesnât mean they canât win though.
@DaGrubster said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
I donât think it is a conscious thing, it is just something that happens through playing together winning together and finding ways to win together when perhaps they shouldnât have.
Itâs an intangible thing, much like the All Black aura. But Ireland certainly have this now.
Like many great AB sides have before them.
The current one doesnât. That doesnât mean they canât win though.
I think we should utilize some of the more outgoing passionate characters in the AB side.
DMac, LF, Blackadder and Samisoni spring to mind.
I fear we may fire a blank squib. -
i might have missed it but what makes guys like LF and Blackadder "outgoing passionate characters"?
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i might have missed it but what makes guys like LF and Blackadder "outgoing passionate characters"?
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
i might have missed it but what makes guys like LF and Blackadder "outgoing passionate characters"?
Leicester's father: "After listening to a Johnny Cash song, I knew if I called him Leicester he'd have to get tough or die"
Ethan's father: "I wish I thought of that, I just wrote down the swear word his mum uttered on the birthing table when those shoulders came out..." -
Muliaina is suggesting that Whitelock should be on the bench, and I agree, but for different reasons. To make the most of the three locks I would obviously play SB for the full 80 mins. Tell BBBR to smash some bodies and empty the tank for 50-60 mins, and then bring on Whitelock to finish the game.
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Muliaina is suggesting that Whitelock should be on the bench, and I agree, but for different reasons. To make the most of the three locks I would obviously play SB for the full 80 mins. Tell BBBR to smash some bodies and empty the tank for 50-60 mins, and then bring on Whitelock to finish the game.
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
.. and then bring on Whitelock to finish the game.
Plus ensure some leadership, hopefully!
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@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
.. and then bring on Whitelock to finish the game.
Plus ensure some leadership, hopefully!
@nostrildamus said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
.. and then bring on Whitelock to finish the game.
Plus ensure some leadership, hopefully!
In theory.
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I can see the ABs have really been following an exact science in diet and preparation:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/300978351/rugby-world-cup-less-is-best-for-tamaiti-williams-ahead-of-pivotal-all-blacks-clash"thereâs been a few less Big Macs and a few more smoothies"
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I can see the ABs have really been following an exact science in diet and preparation:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/300978351/rugby-world-cup-less-is-best-for-tamaiti-williams-ahead-of-pivotal-all-blacks-clash"thereâs been a few less Big Macs and a few more smoothies"
@nostrildamus said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
I can see the ABs have really been following an exact science in diet and preparation:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/300978351/rugby-world-cup-less-is-best-for-tamaiti-williams-ahead-of-pivotal-all-blacks-clash"thereâs been a few less Big Macs and a few more smoothies"
( MN5 forces his hand away from the keyboard so as not to make predictable Fozzie fat jokeâŠ..)
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
I can see the ABs have really been following an exact science in diet and preparation:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/300978351/rugby-world-cup-less-is-best-for-tamaiti-williams-ahead-of-pivotal-all-blacks-clash"thereâs been a few less Big Macs and a few more smoothies"
( MN5 forces his hand away from the keyboard so as not to make predictable Fozzie fat jokeâŠ..)
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@canefan they need to be able to play whats in front of them and react to something they see, but look at the Irish, they are so disiplined in what they do, particularly on defence, they are all in, this then pressures the opposition creating opportunities and giving the freedom to attack, which is also because they have the trust in thier defensive system if it doesnt come off, but also, more often than not, they get the fuck out of thier 22, properly, as do several other top sides.
With the stats re kicking about at present and playing in the opposition half, it makes you wonder what either Foster is seeing to have plans for these short kicks, or, what the players think they are seeing over and over when the short kick is just putting more pressure on themselves.
@taniwharugby said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@canefan they need to be able to play whats in front of them and react to something they see, but look at the Irish, they are so disiplined in what they do, particularly on defence, they are all in, this then pressures the opposition creating opportunities and giving the freedom to attack, which is also because they have the trust in thier defensive system if it doesnt come off, but also, more often than not, they get the fuck out of thier 22, properly, as do several other top sides.
With the stats re kicking about at present and playing in the opposition half, it makes you wonder what either Foster is seeing to have plans for these short kicks, or, what the players think they are seeing over and over when the short kick is just putting more pressure on themselves.
I love the way England's George Ford took that Argie must-win game for them by the scruff of the neck and said "I'm going to won this game for us". He saw the opportunity was there and did what no-one expected them to do. Popped over the droppies at random which is very hard to counter. Kicked long for touch from the 22 as well. I would love just one of our 10s to take that sort of responsibility.
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When is the team really named?
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
When is the team really named?
About now....
TuĂșngafasi
Taylor
Laulala
Retallick
SBarrett
Frizell
Cane
Savea
Smith
Mo'unga
Telea
JBarrett
Ioane
Jordan
BBarrettTaukei'aho
Williams
Lomax
Whitelock
Blackadder
Roigard
McKenzie
ALBActually, I'm not that confident about a few of these.
Lomax may well start. Coles is something of a possibility on the bench. Blackadder vs Paps is a toss-up. Big Leicester may take DMac's slot - or, if Fozzie really gets adventurous, maybe Telea's - but, nah... Christie may hold onto the 21 jersey.
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McLeod confirmed all four previously injured players, in skipper Sam Cane, second five Jordie Barrett, No 6 Shannon Frizell and prop Tyrel Lomax, were fit and âselectableâ after a quality Monday training hitout.
So only Groot not available, really got to play those guys as they need time in the saddle
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is a RWC really where we want to be hoping someone finally lived up to their potential...or should we be playing guys that are already playing some of their best rugby
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
is a RWC really where we want to be hoping someone finally lived up to their potential...or should we be playing guys that are already playing some of their best rugby
I haven't read below this post, but you watched the 1995 WC right? Jonah, was 100% picked on his potential, not shown capability.
I don't think Clarke is 50% of the player of Jonah btw. Actually, in the current game, maybe 25%.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
is a RWC really where we want to be hoping someone finally lived up to their potential...or should we be playing guys that are already playing some of their best rugby
I haven't read below this post, but you watched the 1995 WC right? Jonah, was 100% picked on his potential, not shown capability.
I don't think Clarke is 50% of the player of Jonah btw. Actually, in the current game, maybe 25%.
@gt12 i feel there is a difference between unproven and effectively untested at the top level....and unproven but tested
how many tests did lomu have before the world cup? so showed himself at the lower level and was given his shot and performed....clarke has been given the same shot...and not stepped up IMO
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
.. and then bring on Whitelock to finish the game.
Plus ensure some leadership, hopefully!
In theory.
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
.. and then bring on Whitelock to finish the game.
Plus ensure some leadership, hopefully!
In theory.
Final 20 minute key line outs, I want him jumping and contesting. If that requires him off the bench, I agree it's the way to go.
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@gt12 i feel there is a difference between unproven and effectively untested at the top level....and unproven but tested
how many tests did lomu have before the world cup? so showed himself at the lower level and was given his shot and performed....clarke has been given the same shot...and not stepped up IMO
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@gt12 i feel there is a difference between unproven and effectively untested at the top level....and unproven but tested
how many tests did lomu have before the world cup? so showed himself at the lower level and was given his shot and performed....clarke has been given the same shot...and not stepped up IMO
This is fair, given that Clarke has had 25 tests.
I honestly wouldn't pick him, but my response was due to the wording/idea of your post. If we had Lomu talent, we shouldn't not pick it even if it is unproven (I think Lomu was still a big question mark after how the France team made him look a bit silly in 1994).
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@gt12 i feel there is a difference between unproven and effectively untested at the top level....and unproven but tested
how many tests did lomu have before the world cup? so showed himself at the lower level and was given his shot and performed....clarke has been given the same shot...and not stepped up IMO
This is fair, given that Clarke has had 25 tests.
I honestly wouldn't pick him, but my response was due to the wording/idea of your post. If we had Lomu talent, we shouldn't not pick it even if it is unproven (I think Lomu was still a big question mark after how the France team made him look a bit silly in 1994).
@gt12 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@gt12 i feel there is a difference between unproven and effectively untested at the top level....and unproven but tested
how many tests did lomu have before the world cup? so showed himself at the lower level and was given his shot and performed....clarke has been given the same shot...and not stepped up IMO
This is fair, given that Clarke has had 25 tests.
I honestly wouldn't pick him, but my response was due to the wording/idea of your post. If we had Lomu talent, we shouldn't not pick it even if it is unproven (I think Lomu was still a big question mark after how the France team made him look a bit silly in 1994).
im not even sure about that, we see it with BB, no question he hasnt proven himself in the past...but if you're not bringing it on game day any time recently....then find someone else....im just not down for picking hoping they suddenly turn around
id rather pick someone thats going to give me 7-8 out of 10....than someone that has the potential of 10 out of 10...but regularly gives us 6
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@gt12 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@gt12 i feel there is a difference between unproven and effectively untested at the top level....and unproven but tested
how many tests did lomu have before the world cup? so showed himself at the lower level and was given his shot and performed....clarke has been given the same shot...and not stepped up IMO
This is fair, given that Clarke has had 25 tests.
I honestly wouldn't pick him, but my response was due to the wording/idea of your post. If we had Lomu talent, we shouldn't not pick it even if it is unproven (I think Lomu was still a big question mark after how the France team made him look a bit silly in 1994).
im not even sure about that, we see it with BB, no question he hasnt proven himself in the past...but if you're not bringing it on game day any time recently....then find someone else....im just not down for picking hoping they suddenly turn around
id rather pick someone thats going to give me 7-8 out of 10....than someone that has the potential of 10 out of 10...but regularly gives us 6
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@gt12 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@gt12 i feel there is a difference between unproven and effectively untested at the top level....and unproven but tested
how many tests did lomu have before the world cup? so showed himself at the lower level and was given his shot and performed....clarke has been given the same shot...and not stepped up IMO
This is fair, given that Clarke has had 25 tests.
I honestly wouldn't pick him, but my response was due to the wording/idea of your post. If we had Lomu talent, we shouldn't not pick it even if it is unproven (I think Lomu was still a big question mark after how the France team made him look a bit silly in 1994).
im not even sure about that, we see it with BB, no question he hasnt proven himself in the past...but if you're not bring it on game day....then find someone else....im just not down for picking hoping they suddenly turn around
Changing goalposts.
BB is not unproven nor untested. He's well-proven and well-tested. He just hasn't been exposed to severe competition ala Mils Muliana and Israel Dagg.
He is past it and if we had tested an alternative he should be dropped.
*btw, I hope he turns it around as I'm sure he will be picked.
