RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy
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Carley is not a ref I enjoy watching, just seems overly pedantic and often leads to a stop start game. I wonder what he average time in play and penalties are for him vs the other RWC refs. Shame BOK is a kiwi as I would take him all day long.
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@Dodge said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Right, this is silly, you’re a good side and I watched a brilliant video of Fitzy talking about the power of the shirt today, talking about how the 30 living captains get together every year to talk about what it means to be an all black and how they can maintain that sense of what went before. It was enough for me, I just put money on you lot to win the whole thing. You’re a couple of big performances (not tomorrow, you could turn up half cut and beat Italy) from winning the whole thing. The fact you’re not convinced and neither are the chattering classes means the odds are worth it.
If you want to throw money away you can just send some to me.
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We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
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We're probably on the 3rd line of betting at the moment. If this was a horse race Ireland would be at around the $2.50 mark, Friance and South Africa at $3s, and us probably at 4s. England at about 7s or 8s, and everyone else in double figures.
And i am happy with that. But the pretty lady in the mounting yard is probably not picking us off the parade.
@mariner4life yep, you’re fourth favourite but more in the sense of the 4th most attractive woman in miss world, rather than the 4th most attractive woman in a small village
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@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.So you're now also saying the Head coach and not the Forwards coach deserves the credit when the forwards are going well?
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.So you're now also saying the Head coach and not the Forwards coach deserves the credit when the forwards are going well?
Overall credit to the head coach absolutely - but we are hardly in that position are we?
Credit when things improve when the head coach stays the same and the forwards coach changes is always going to be debatable - not sure why you're not comfortable with that. -
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Aumua could have been ready in time
Aumua's big problem - that kept him out of the ABs, esp. since ST was picked - was his very poor line-out throwing. He got his chances, but didn't take them. It was only last year that he improved his line-out throwing. Injuries have played a role, too.
Anyway, if Aumua had been considered for the RWC squad, it would have been a choice between him and Coles.
@Stargazer That's fair - but then Taylor's terrible line-out throwing last year didn't keep him out of the ABs.
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@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact. -
@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson
haven't you heard? Unlike all the players currently in the squad, he makes errors.
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson
haven't you heard? Unlike all the players currently in the squad, he makes errors.
Ouch, that burns.
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@Frank said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Confused. Is Richie Mounga not playing vs Italy? Link?
He looked injured at the last training. Bandage on his thigh and had a bit of a limp climbing some stairs
Who knows? It might be minor and he can play. Nothing official yet
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With teams kicking long in this WC, It would be great to have a Stevenson/Sullivan type FB with a big boot to counter it.
@Chris said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
With teams kicking long in this WC, It would be great to have a Stevenson/Sullivan type FB with a big boot to counter it.
Would love to see Jordan and Stevenson been given a go together next year to develop. Both a roving fullback and wing role. Stevenson has a great boot on him and he mixes it up well. DMac and him could control the territory game as they have shown for the Chiefs.
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Just on the DM/BB axis. Have we seen that in a big test? I'm quite excited to see how it goes. Hopefully another injury forced "master stroke".
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Just on the DM/BB axis. Have we seen that in a big test? I'm quite excited to see how it goes. Hopefully another injury forced "master stroke".
First test of the year away in Argentina they certainly looked good
But no we must persist with the failed Mo'unga-BB axis that hasn't worked since implemented in 2019.....
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Just on the DM/BB axis. Have we seen that in a big test? I'm quite excited to see how it goes. Hopefully another injury forced "master stroke".
First test of the year away in Argentina they certainly looked good
But no we must persist with the failed Mo'unga-BB axis that hasn't worked since implemented in 2019.....
@KiwiMurph said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Just on the DM/BB axis. Have we seen that in a big test? I'm quite excited to see how it goes. Hopefully another injury forced "master stroke".
First test of the year away in Argentina they certainly looked good
But no we must persist with the failed Mo'unga-BB axis that hasn't worked since implemented in 2019.....
just like my punting...
IT'S DUE!!
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The thing that makes Ireland so good at the moment is they are so comfortable doing not much for long stretches of the game. Maybe some phases if we are in the right part of the field, but they wait for their chance and they are happy to stay in teh grind
I watched that SA v Ireland game and kept thinking "Barrett or Mo'unga would have got bored by now and tried something risky to break the game open"
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
The thing that makes Ireland so good at the moment is they are so comfortable doing not much for long stretches of the game. Maybe some phases if we are in the right part of the field, but they wait for their chance and they are happy to stay in teh grind
I watched that SA v Ireland game and kept thinking "Barrett or Mo'unga would have got bored by now and tried something risky to break the game open"
Very much like a good league team that gets into the grind and is happy to let the opposition make the mistake and then pounce.
Ironically I still think we could employ the same tactic successfully and be better at it, because I think we have more players that could exploit the mistake.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Just on the DM/BB axis. Have we seen that in a big test? I'm quite excited to see how it goes. Hopefully another injury forced "master stroke".
First test of the year away in Argentina they certainly looked good
But no we must persist with the failed Mo'unga-BB axis that hasn't worked since implemented in 2019.....
@KiwiMurph said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
First test of the year away in Argentina they certainly looked good
A clear separation of roles. BB was playing like a traditional ten in our own half. They swapped when we were on attack and then McKenzie played extremely flat, handled the ball constantly and BB picked great lines.
McKenzie at full pace looping around outside the JB/RI midfield was a highlight. So many questions for the defence to answer
Very disappointed we didn't see it again in one of the Tests v SA
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i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.
Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.
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@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
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@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.MateI don't assess scrums, as you have to be out there to do it. I don't make my opinions from reading stats, because basically the ones we get a not all that reflective of a game, I just old fashioned type of fella that makes his opinions (as I did when coaching etc) from watching. As I say I a ST fan anyway, just at this stage I not convinced he best option (though to be fair if coached said he was after watching games and trainings) I would have absolutely no probs, thay would have feedback aetc on scrum etc as well.
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i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.
Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.
Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.
Hard to know because we haven't tried it enough and haven't given Mckenzie enough opportunity in pressure games.
From the limited stuff we have seen, it seems to work far better if Mckenzie is one of the dual playmakers, with either BB or RM as the other. IMO that's very clearly because they play similarly, and he plays differently.
